I'm ready to investigate

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Antony
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Re: I'm ready to investigate

Postby Antony » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:19 pm

Looks like i've stumped myself. I don't know what i mean now. It doesn't make sense. It's likely nothing ultimately makes any sense.
I notice there are still thought streams coming and going and i'm trying to work out what's next. It feels like it's all nothing and then it isn't and then it is.
My mind thinks but i don't perceive anything actual.
This is confusing

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vinceschubert
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Re: I'm ready to investigate

Postby vinceschubert » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:30 pm

Looks like i've stumped myself. I don't know what i mean now. It doesn't make sense. It's likely nothing ultimately makes any sense.
I notice there are still thought streams coming and going and i'm trying to work out what's next. It feels like it's all nothing and then it isn't and then it is.
My mind thinks but i don't perceive anything actual.
This is confusing
Confusion is fine. It is just the mind trying to stay with the familiar. It is like the fear, it is intended to stop this process, but it has no strength. Just Ignore it.
So tell me Antony, is there a you that is the author of these thoughts ?

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Antony
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Re: I'm ready to investigate

Postby Antony » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:37 pm

All i see is thought asking questions. There is also a doubt thought saying 'this isn't it'. The doubt thought feels like it's having some impact.

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Antony
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Re: I'm ready to investigate

Postby Antony » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:42 pm

I feel like there's someone here again now. I wasn't so sure there was earlier

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vinceschubert
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Re: I'm ready to investigate

Postby vinceschubert » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:43 pm

The doubt thought feels like it's having some impact.
On What is it having an impact?

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Antony
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Re: I'm ready to investigate

Postby Antony » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:49 pm

Every answer i come up with is just a thought but i have one that persists, which is 'the feeling of me'

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vinceschubert
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Re: I'm ready to investigate

Postby vinceschubert » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:53 pm

a thought ... that persists, which is 'the feeling of me'
Explain how a thought becomes a feeling (of me) ??

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vinceschubert
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Re: I'm ready to investigate

Postby vinceschubert » Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:05 pm

Ok, bedtime here.
Antony, answer the last post then don't answer this one until (my morning - 6 or 7 hours from now)
How does the I or Me work ? (normally that is, as it was before we disturbed it.)

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Antony
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Re: I'm ready to investigate

Postby Antony » Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:06 pm

I say i feel bodily sensations. The bodily sensations are what makes me feel i am here. I just quickly saw that that's only true when i think.

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Antony
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Re: I'm ready to investigate

Postby Antony » Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:28 pm

It's quite a difficult question. Not sure what you really mean.
I think a good example was after your last post. I just felt really hopeless. Like i'm never going to get this. So i've been feeling really sad about the whole thing. I'm just waiting for all this suffering to end but it feels like it's getting worse and worse as the days go by. I keep thinking that i have to keep going and not back down. I am just not enjoying myself with anything really. Everything feels really hollow. I just don't know what to do anymore.
My partner and i are not really speaking because i'm feeling so lost and confused with everything. I just don't know how to interact with her. I feel so protective about going through this and going through it alone. I feel like anyone could destabilise me.
A little earlier I was sleeping a little and kept having this feeling wash over me of falling into something and a sense that everything was disappearing. This has been happening more and more over the last month. Do you know what is going on?

Many thanks Vince,

Antony

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vinceschubert
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Re: I'm ready to investigate

Postby vinceschubert » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:47 pm

Do you know what is going on?
Yes Antony, what is happening is that something is disappearing, or rather is about to disappear.
And what is about to evaporate is the notion that something is true - when it is actually false.
An example; if i say imagine your bed. You get a picture of something that is real.
If i say imagine Santa or a unicorn then you can only conceptualise.
Well, you are carrying around concepts that you take for real. This is what is changing.
You are doing well.
The mind doesn't let go easily of what it considers real, so it is normal to feel a whole range of emotions during the process.
Tell your partner to be patient. That you will emerge from this like a butterfly who used to be a caterpillar.
I'm just waiting for all this suffering to end
Don't push your suffering away. It is your friend. It is showing you something.
Welcome the suffering and tell me what thought process is happening as you focus on it.

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Antony
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Re: I'm ready to investigate

Postby Antony » Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:32 pm

Since i last wrote i spoke a lot with my partner and i am feeling more at ease. But i also feel like i've backtracked too and reached out for some comfortable supports. It feels less painful now.
I have discovered how protective i have been over this investigation. Like i don't want to tell anyone about it because of fear of being judged. I'm hiding it. I keep imagining what it will be like once it's come to an end. All these thoughts about how i'll be seen by others. That's why i've been hiding it because i feel ashamed to reveal that it's because i keep seeing myself as being somehow superior once it's over. I feel like my intentions aren't pure. So i keep isolating myself and not interacting with anyone. I feel much more at ease now i'm alone.
The feeling of hopelessness makes me think that i need to find someone who knows how to help me. I start thinking of strategies of getting money so i can spend time on retreat in satsang with a teacher. I'm grappling for an instant fix.
I feel like i'm going insane at times. Like there's no escape and i start doubting this whole process. I start thinking of a familiar life in my memory and feel like i want to take it all back. But i'll know that i've turned away from an opportunity to go through. This seems to happen even in little moments. Like i found some enjoyment in something earlier and then felt like i can't enjoy anything because i am just avoiding the suffering. That judgement felt like it didn't really make sense. Like why can't i enjoy something?
Now there isn't much pain coming up so when i welcome it in there's nothing much to see or feel.

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Antony
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Re: I'm ready to investigate

Postby Antony » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:46 pm

I'm focussing on the feeling i have now that i feel i've backtracked. This dread that i am never going to be free. I just keep thinking that i'm not free now and how much i want to be. I want to rush to the end because i don't want to feel this fear. So i'm welcoming the fear. The thinking is... you're expecting the fear to come up, don't push it down, just relax into it, i want you to come up so you can show me why i feel like this, i think/believe that the only way to go through this is if the fear comes up, i've got to feel more into it, i'm not getting anywhere with this, i can't seem to do anything about it but i really don't want to experience it.
After this last thought something very subtle shifted. Some sort of detachment was seen.

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vinceschubert
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Re: I'm ready to investigate

Postby vinceschubert » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:55 am

Antony, you cannot imagine what it will be like when you are liberated as you have never experienced it in the past.
STOP looking forward to it.
DON'T worry about backtracking or moving forward.
There is nothing you can DO to bring it on.
It is a discovery and it will happen when conditions are right.
That's what we are doing here. We are setting up conditions.
No knowledge will do this for you. It is an experiencing. Nobody can give it to you. You will discover it yourself.
After this last thought something very subtle shifted
These shifts are telling us that we are on the right track.
I'm focussing on the feeling i have now that i feel i've backtracked
tell me the thought process of focusing.

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Antony
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Re: I'm ready to investigate

Postby Antony » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:44 am

Thank you Vince. I feel much more at ease with all this now.

The thought process of focussing is like looking at the sensation of the feeling as if it were and object outside. Like i'm looking from a point in my head and the feeling is somewhere down in my belly. So i look in all the areas of the feeling to feel it as much as possible.


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