looking for a guide

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empty_hand
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Re: looking for a guide

Postby empty_hand » Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:22 pm

I need more time to look into it - had a very stressful day at work. I will work with DE more and post my answers tomorrow, ok?

Best regards,
DE

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Lib
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Re: looking for a guide

Postby Lib » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:02 pm

Absolutely! Take your time EH, DE, all you guys...:)

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empty_hand
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Re: looking for a guide

Postby empty_hand » Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:44 pm

Absolutely! Take your time EH, DE, all you guys...:)
so many labels and no self :P
I’m unclear here as to what you mean. Could you explain in more detail, direct looking of course, what you mean here? Elaborate more than you usually do. All in DE of course.

“each thing experiences itself”

and “there is no awareness outside object of awareness.”
I was checking in DE if there is some sort of awareness that can be viewed as me - and I couldn't find anything separate from what is being experienced. I saw that there is no difference between seeing my hand or seeing hand of other people etc. There is temptation to call myself everything :)
What can you say about the brain, in direct experience only?
there is no brain until you hold one in your hands :P
just thoughts arising as well as images, concepts, memories - nothing caused by "me"
Is this your direct experience or are you defaulting?

Do you exist?

Have you seen through the illusion of self?
in DE there is no one doing anything - deciding, thinking, etc.
thought cannot think - and no one doing them - and self-concept is just reference - just subjective story

I don't know - I will keep working on this last questions...

Best regard,
Rafal :P or some other label

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Lib
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Re: looking for a guide

Postby Lib » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:53 pm

so many labels and no self :P
Hahahaha - Good one!
I was checking in DE if there is some sort of awareness that can be viewed as me - and I couldn't find anything separate from what is being experienced. I saw that there is no difference between seeing my hand or seeing hand of other people etc. There is temptation to call myself everything :
EH, DE, Rafal and friends.
Veerry Clear. I am tempted to just let you run through the final questions and see how you land. But let’s do this first.

Get very still for a moment, looking out at life as it occurs through the senses. Stop all thought for a moment as movement, images, sounds arise. If thought comes in let it go back and return to thoughtlessness. There is an alert presence there, noticing all that arises. Answer these questions.

Is there anything else but this noticing? Anything you can find at all?
Does this noticing create thoughts emotions and sensations? Or are these things just noticed?
Does this noticing have form, color, shape, substance or dimension of it’s own?
Can anything come before noticing?
Is there ever anything else but this noticing?
Is a “self” or “I” required for noticing to happen?
Is there any boundaries between what notices, the noticing and what is noticed? Or is it all one seamless movement of color and life?
Is there anything before noticing?
Which comes first, noticing or God?

Lib

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empty_hand
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Re: looking for a guide

Postby empty_hand » Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:30 pm

Hi
I was unable to do DE today - I will focus on that tomorrow but I would like a clarification first:
by "noticing" you mean attention or focus?
Rafal

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Lib
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Re: looking for a guide

Postby Lib » Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:07 am

Attending, focusing, aware-ing, noticing. All the same. Just very relaxed looking. Take some good time with this. In fact if you need an extra day take it, as there is much to see here, even without the questions. Thought comes back in fairly quickly, so you can sit awhile and let the thoughts go by, or just come back when it occurs to you to do so. Just short moments of noticing. And some resting in that. Keep doing it even after you answer the questions. Answer each one individually and in order.

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Lib
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Re: looking for a guide

Postby Lib » Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:09 am

And report any thing else that you might discover in this process.

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Lib
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Re: looking for a guide

Postby Lib » Sun Jul 27, 2014 12:40 pm

How goes it EH?

Lib

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empty_hand
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Re: looking for a guide

Postby empty_hand » Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:09 pm

Is there anything else but this noticing? Anything you can find at all?
Does this noticing create thoughts emotions and sensations? Or are these things just noticed?
Does this noticing have form, color, shape, substance or dimension of it’s own?
Can anything come before noticing?
Is there ever anything else but this noticing?
Is a “self” or “I” required for noticing to happen?
Is there any boundaries between what notices, the noticing and what is noticed? Or is it all one seamless movement of color and life?
Is there anything before noticing?
Which comes first, noticing or God?
Attending, focusing, aware-ing, noticing. All the same. Just very relaxed looking.
There is only what is- just awareness of everything that is happening - it's everything
awareness that cannot be divided from "things" - just shapes/colors and sounds etc.

no self is necessary to this awareness and everything just happens "inside" this aware space

Lib, I will take a bit more time to work on your questions - there is really a lot to see.

Regards,
EH

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Lib
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Re: looking for a guide

Postby Lib » Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:03 pm

Yes, take a little more time. Another question. Is there an "inside" which implies an "outside" to this aware space? Do this little exercise as well. Look at the furthers object in your perception and the nearest object. Are either one really "near" or "far" or are they both just part of one continuous appearance?

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Lib
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Re: looking for a guide

Postby Lib » Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:45 pm

Checking in EH....

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empty_hand
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Re: looking for a guide

Postby empty_hand » Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:57 pm

Does this noticing have form, color, shape, substance or dimension of it’s own?
no - it's just what is - noticing cannot be divided from awareness of senses: looking, hearing etc. and senses cannot be divided from "objects" of experiences - really just shapes and colors and forms - moving on its own. All thoughts about reality are just pure fiction - no inside or outside - no far and near - no "being here and now" and "being lost in thoughts".

there isn't and never was any division or boundary between what notices, the noticing and what is noticed...
just a moment-to-moment play of experience with no actor, no control, no deliberation

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Lib
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Re: looking for a guide

Postby Lib » Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:16 pm

Looking great, EH!
Let's do a review just to see if we covered all the bases.
Have you been able to find, a ‘self’ that is the ‘experiencer’?
Or a self that is the doer, or can control what happens?
Or a self that ‘makes’ decisions? Or a self who ‘does the thinking’?
Is the "body" just another thought label for sensations (namely tactile & kinesthetic)?
Are the five body senses made to arise or experienced by this ‘self’?
Is there a self ‘in here’ which is separate from the world and others ‘out there’?
Is there doubt or unclarity that in all these cases the ‘self’ is nothing other than a mental fabrication?
And finally:
Are there any doubts about seeing through the illusion of separate self?

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Lib
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Re: looking for a guide

Postby Lib » Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:40 pm

EH, what time zone are you in? Where are you located?

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empty_hand
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Re: looking for a guide

Postby empty_hand » Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:54 pm

Poland :) UTC + 1:00

Today at night I am going to Woodstock Festival and I will be without
internet access to Sunday. I will try and take time to relax and
improve clarity in seeing what's always here. I will report when I'm
back.


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