Hi - is Ilona or Elena able to guide me please?

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Elsa
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Hi - is Ilona or Elena able to guide me please?

Postby Elsa » Sat May 24, 2014 11:39 pm

Hi,
Quick history
Experienced knowing of separation at 7 yrs
Asked all the big questions early "who amI? what am? what am I doing here" It became the total driving force in my life.
Went on a very long journey according to my "ideal" of wholenness (gleaned from Masters and Gurus), searching for enlightenment and truth
In my 40's went to India in search of the truth and on return had a huge realisation that all the chanting and praying was taking me further away, that I was not the body
Found a well known advaita and he showed me I was not my thoughts or mind either.
Life became easier to live. I started to feel I was on the right track at last because it was something I could see for myself, not through a Gurus experience.
Being aware that I am not the body or mind was not "sticking" all the time, like I am on the threshold of the gate moving in and out of it - I would really like to investigate that.
Recently went to a realised person overseas and bang, I have been investigating my thoughts through their teaching and I have longer moments of seeing, things that would worry me don't anymore.. the thoughts come up and roll away, they don't stick as much. I am in my 50's and I although I have had glimpses, just need a good shove through that gate... seriously, I will not give up until I can see clearly. I am so relieved to have found you!
Elsa

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Elena
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Re: Hi - is Ilona or Elena able to guide me please?

Postby Elena » Sun May 25, 2014 3:33 pm

Dear, we are glad you are here.

So are you tired from search?

What is that "Gate" where you are standing... What it is like?

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Elsa
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Re: Hi - is Ilona or Elena able to guide me please?

Postby Elsa » Mon May 26, 2014 8:52 am

Many thanks Elena,I am most grateful.

Yes I am tired from the search but will not give up.

The gate where I am standing - what it's like
Alot of thinking deeply about this today. here goes:

Visually : the gate is a doorway like a doorframe in space. I am on the left side in the dark, the familiar, the seemingly solid but it's uncomfortable in the dark - and when I put my foot over the threshold of the doorway there is lightness and light a beautiful space, but fear comes up,if I put one more foot forward, I may fall, I don't know this territory over the threshold. Will it hold me.

How this translates within me:

I haved moved from a state of being that suffered, that got hooked into the past and future thinking, that believed I was my thinking and that there was a me running the show. Then that all changed when I realised that I didn't know where my thoughts came from so I looked to see where ? and then realised that the looking for those thoughts was happening "outside" of my body. So the gateway or threshold is where I oscilate back and forth, calm filled with love, thoughts rising falling and not sticking, loving life , easy flowing and relaxed, goes on for some time, them wham can be caught up in a thought into the future or past and a bit of worry and concern, then I see the thought is just a thought and it lets go but this oscillation happens.
Also, I see that there is a fear of staying in the "state of clear awareness"... how will I function in my job? I have to make decisions and drive projects, what if I am so happy I don't want to go to work, how will I survive ( I know it sounds crazy but this is really what is coming up) will I end up in poverty unable to stay integrated into society?
Fear of loss and fear of disconnecting from everything!!! Yes, that is what it is like.

X Elsa

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Elsa
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Re: Hi - is Ilona or Elena able to guide me please?

Postby Elsa » Tue May 27, 2014 1:22 pm

Hi Elena,
It is 10.20pm here in Australia and as the agreement was for me to post every day I am doing that now.
:-)
Blessings, Elsa

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Elsa
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Re: Hi - is Ilona or Elena able to guide me please?

Postby Elsa » Wed May 28, 2014 11:19 am

Hello
is anyone there???
Not sure how all of this works, I am supposed to write in every day yes?
But no one is writing back, Is there someone who can guide me each day please?
Blessings,
Elsa

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Elena
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Re: Hi - is Ilona or Elena able to guide me please?

Postby Elena » Thu May 29, 2014 7:12 am

Sorry, dear...

So...fears...and many thoughts how it will be from this stand point where you are right now to somewhere in a future: all that is a talk to yourself in your head...

Can you please do me a favor.

First, stop reading anything here on the forum or any books and etc. pertaining to non duality/enlightenment/no self and etc...and please agree to it, ok?

Then...

Sit down quietly with for laptop or by the computer and wright down in a vertical column the following:

every thought,
every sensation,
every feeling,
one
by
one
for about
30 min
for example:

i cant get it - thought
fear - feeling
hot - sensation
what if I go crazy - T
fear - F
burning - S
I have to get through this gate - T
anxiety - F
sweating - S
What if I cant ? - T
shame - F
tension in the stomach - S
I am tired - T
sleepiness - F
heaviness - S
I see the thought is just a thought - T
frustration - F
Ops, I forgot to write sensation - T
I hope its ok - T
Ok what I will eat for dinner - T
What I am thinking about? - T
I am tired of seeking right - T
and
so
on
...

It will be plenty of time for you between my reply to you...you can repeat this as much as you want, and the more - the better..you can write all this here, don't worry if it gets too long...its doesn't matter. The most important you do this honestly without creating anything, just recording - recording whats going on in senses...you can add sound, taste, image too. So if thought comes up we assume its a sentence or a word, if picture comes up - its image...just for recording purposes..

Have a nice day, dear Elsa

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Elsa
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Re: Hi - is Ilona or Elena able to guide me please?

Postby Elsa » Thu May 29, 2014 11:52 am

Thank you Elena,
I will do this. And going forward from now I promise faithfully no reading on the forum or anything like you asked..
The weekend is coming up too - so perfect timimg for me to do this every day until we meet up.
bless you ,
Elsa

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Elsa
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Re: Hi - is Ilona or Elena able to guide me please?

Postby Elsa » Thu May 29, 2014 1:55 pm

this feels weird T
what do I write T
listen, just stop the chatter and listen T
see myself sitting in my room typing I
nothing is coming up, the thought "nothing is coming up" T
Don't type that T
I have to , this is about being honest T
So not spiritualT
Who cares, T
Tired F
Sigh F
I wonder if I will ever make it, if this process will work for me? T
slight anxiety S
promised not to read anything, i liked reading all the stories of liberation on this forum T
I was reading to see if I could fast track T
what can you fast track? T
There goes the night train, I got distracted T
Elena is going to think I am crazy T
Maybe not, she said to write everything down, she has probably seen it all before T
relief S
Scene of the beach, seaside I
feel the sun on my body, relaxing me I
I love the seaside T
Maybe getting rid of the "I "is like being at the beach every day T
some people got upset because they felt cheated when there were no bells and whistles when they recognised the truth T
Mayne I am already "there " and I don't know itT
Sure - don't be stupid, you are so far from it T
tired F
relaxed S
what am I far from? T
It's confusing T
Elena will think I am boring and not come backT
She is so happy, I want that every moment happiness T
smiling F
happy F
how long will It take, ?T
mothers face I
Got to get up early tomorrowT
don't think about it now, I am supposed to be thinking about my thinking T
No, just watching, listening feeling T
itchy nose S
God there is not much in there when I wait for something to come up T
It's all bloody nonsense T
It even has a sound (voice) my voice talking to me in my head T and sound SD
Brahms lullaby SD
I love classical music I should play it more T
Does my mind go on like this all the time and I don't notice? T
Or is it just jabbering away because I am taking notice of it and its going to town? T
silence the thought silence - what is that my head said silence... silence is not supposed to be said because then it isn't silence so why did I say silence when it went silence and then it wasn't silence anymore T
Did I swallow a mad person for dinner (laugh) S
How will I ever get to understand what all of this is for, that Elena surprised me with this exercise F T
sigh, S
There goes another train T
I have to get to bed, it's really late. T
I will do more tomorrow T
will I still write like a mad person? T

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Elena
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Re: Hi - is Ilona or Elena able to guide me please?

Postby Elena » Fri May 30, 2014 5:03 am

This is great, honey...Lets do it another day like this, ok?
Sit for 45 min this time and write everything that comes up, even if it repeats itself. Besides this for short time here with computer, in walking life, start to notice thoughts, sensations, feelings - RAW- without going into the context - just like here you did...
For example, when "My life sucks" thought appearing, just recognize : Thought! Don't go into analyzing how it sucks and why. If feeling of tiredness comes - Feeling! Do not analyze why you tired and what you should do...If you start analyzing...come back to noticing: Thought! Thought! Thought!

Lets do it...

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Elsa
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Re: Hi - is Ilona or Elena able to guide me please?

Postby Elsa » Fri May 30, 2014 1:17 pm

Hi Elena,
I just spent the last 50 minutes doing the exercise here and while previewing I hit the wrong button and looks like I lost all of my dialogue before I got to save it.
I will do it all again tomorrow as it is very late now.
thank you so much for your precious time, I am following your instructions and so grateful to you
X Elsa

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Elsa
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Re: Hi - is Ilona or Elena able to guide me please?

Postby Elsa » Sat May 31, 2014 7:43 am

Hi Dear Elena,
here I go (saving it this time !!)
resistance T
restlessness F
pain in foot F
dog, I wish I had a dog T
were did that thought come from , oh I know I saw that staffy this morning when I was running T I
dogs are so beautiful T
I want a dog but I can't have one in an apartment T
Maybe it's just a substitute like an addiction or something T
why did I say that, that is really dumb T
how can a dog be a substitute for an addiction, oh because my kids have grown up and I need something to love T
Wow I didn't think I did T
immage of dog I
No I don't really, I am ok on my own here T
smile happy S
I am lucky and anyway, Iwant to see where the thoughts come from and where they go toT
is that water running? T
hey no trains, there were so many passing by last night and I don't recall any today,
I wonder who catches trains at night?
probably people who work really late and are too tired to drive T
or go out by themselves T
How would I know that ? T
I hear a train now T
must concentrate and see where the next....T
I am hungry T S
See where the next T
really hungry, I don"t want to sit here I want to get up and moveT
Sore legs S
I hit CAPS T
I RAN T
I ran too hard today and my leg hurts T F
now let me see if I can see where the next thought..T
who slammed the door? T
Oh god I can't ...T
a car went passed T
These thoughts are all over the place.. hey I just thought a thought, a thought said these thoughts are all over the place, that is like 3 dimensional thinking T
Tram is stopping outside (Sound)
Now let me wait for the next thought T
My leg is sore T
thought came from the area of pain up into my face T S
the keybosrd is pressing on my fingers thought came up from nowhere and took my attention to my fingers on the keyboard wow that is cool T
hands on keyboard thought, then I feel the keyboard, or do I feel the keyboard then the thought tells me my hands are on the keyboard? T
this is confusing T
I am a mess in my head T
The jabbering never stops long enough for me to catch a thought coming up they just seem to keep streaming in T
How will I ever..T
car noise SO
I am hungry and S
there goes another tram T SO
sigh F
Barbara adopts rabbit, that thought just came up into my face T I
wow, I just thought what will I have for dinner, the car is going past and Barbaras rabbit all in one sentence! T
what are these thoughts anyway? T
fresh air S
space S
lost focus T
a thought is thought even the word thought is something I have to think to know it is a thought T
a thought comes up and I say a thought has come up and yet I am thinking about thinking about the thinking ....what did I just say, never mind T
what am I doing this for again? T
Elena said it will be good T
I trust her so I will keep doing this T
I wonder if this is Vipassana, no they wouldn't take a lap top into the meditation T (laughing) S
even when I just had a moment of silence my mind told me this is a moment of silence, no thought, yet the thinking was still happening T
cross that out, no I will say it T
Thoughts are like water out of a hose that has been turned on (images of hose) T
they keep coming and I can't stop them no matter how hard I try T
But do you try Elsa, do you really?
I do try but now that I am listening to my thoughts and even thinking the thought that I am listening to my thoughts T
I realise that IT never shuts up T
it's like a mad person in there just raving on T
soreness in leg F
aching in leg F
uncomfortable S
I am having a love hate relationship with this writing my thoughts T
why did I even say that?
maybe it is true T
wow, my thoughts even have conversations with each other T
that is what happens when I am triyng to decide something, how do thoughts do that? T
quiet - still no trains going passed that is wierd T
(looking out of my window) i even had a thought of looking out of my window when I was looking out the window
it's like a dictation machine T
is it a dictation machine that dictates every thing I do T
or is it a thought machine that thinks first and then I act on it T
I will look at that now T
unomfotable S
look at the time T
where was I ,T
oh yes do I dicta no T
does the thought dictate or can't remember what I saidT
watch the thoughts and listen T
scratching chin S
moving legs S
sigh S
scratch shoulder S
I hear a tram SO
thought came up "you should look out side" ok, didn't say I should look it said you should lookT
scratch head Action
move around S
thought said hear voices, then I want to go to the window to see who is there, who is talking T
dog barking SO
dog barking SO
I am like watching and hearing this non stop stream of verbage, garbage verbage most of the time, like an ADD on steroids T
that is so wierd T
A thought comes up and grabs my attention, I can see how that happens T
I am not purposely thinking the thoughts, it's like the thoughts are thinking me.. did that make any sense?
I did this all last night then didn't save it and lost it T
but I didn't see what I am seeing now T
what am I seeing again? T
I don't know it is all getting too confusing , so many sounds, sensations and thoughts all happening T S SO
I just sit and seemingly do nothing and then a thought happens by itself, but I am still thinking about what I am seeing and hearing as thoughts.. oh yeah, I AM seeing and I AM hearing and then a translatiton of that happens in thought and grabs my attention!!! oh, I don't know if that even makes sense T
what did I just say
another tram, no hey that was a train!!!! S T
and sometimes it really grabs and I go on a tangent T
How do I function so well everyday with all these rampant thoughts going on T
cold S
cold s
restless S
sore leg S
annoyance F
I have to go study, T
I don't have to study T
If I don't I will never progress T
dam T
It may just be a thought but it is valid .... ahhh no more arguments in my head I am doing the study T
Now where does that thought come from T
aeroplane SO
sky I
I like wide open spaces I T
How much space do all these thoughts need? T
wonder if the mind is like computer storage T I
thought comes up and if not grabbed onto it self deletes hah T

mobile phone buzzing in house (noise)
might be my daughter T
ignore it, you need to finish this, this is more important T
now let me see where the next thought comes from
I shut my eyes and AMERICA came into my thought/vision - wow I don't
cold, arms cold S
rubbing arms (action)
need to go study.

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Elena
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Re: Hi - is Ilona or Elena able to guide me please?

Postby Elena » Sun Jun 01, 2014 4:21 am

Did this experience shows how thoughts, feelings, sensations arise...?

Do you choose thoughts?

Do you choose sensations?

Do you choose feelings?

What is actually going?

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Elsa
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Re: Hi - is Ilona or Elena able to guide me please?

Postby Elsa » Sun Jun 01, 2014 4:50 am

Hi Elena,
I just did this one (below), then saw your new message so I will submit this then come back later and answer:

Hi Elena,
Here I go again :-)
car tyres in the rain T SO
glad I am not out in itT
I like the rain but not this heavy T
thinking is thinking about not thnking T
Can I not think? T
scratch eye S
feel hands resting on keyboard, T
sound of car swooshing in rain T SO
I wonder what time my son will be back T
relaxed F
Ok I will look for where the thoughts come from T
there was silence but my voice said there is no thought, so in fact there was, thinking was thinking about not thinking and it was told in words in my head T
warmth from heater F S
correct spelling mistake A
tram is stopping , another tram is stopping T
back to work tomorrow T
I like chiling out and staying indoors in the rain T
head heavy S
a bit sore F
Wonder how my mum is, I need to email her T
will my friend want biscuits this afternoon T
I might get my assignment finished before she arrives T
ok where does the next thought come from T
It's outside of my body but not outside of me phone is riniging F SO T
where does thought come from T
(sip tea) this tea is nice - thought said drink tea and I did and then thought said the tea is nice
why am I analysing my thoughts T
I am getting off track here trying to control something T
stop asking questions?
am I asking them or is it thought just asking?
I am analysing again T
lots of cars swishing past in the rain T So
where is all of this going?
where are the people going in the cars?
down t the city for a day out haha a day out where?
there is no city really,
just a bunch of buildings and roads and shops all stuck together to make a "city" T
it's just a whole bunch of buildings and one building does not make a city. I f I took all those buildings out of the city and put them in another place would that then become a city? this is crazy T
why am I ever thinking these things how did I get to here T
how did I even get to here T
wow when I think about it I have been carried by cells for generation to generation for God knows how long T I
car beeping horn SO
where was I , I was liking that thought about where did I come from ,so was it that every time an ancestor was born, I was carried into that life time as a cell or something, maybe an atom, T
so when I was born as a body, I am just a pattern of my whole generational history?
like a snowflake, maybe I am a snowflake as in Flakey haha!! T
this is hurting my head and i feel confused T
feet feel heavy S
slippers feel nice and soft and warm S
was I born at all? T
why did that come up? T
mYbe I don't like just sitting in an empty space T
no it i s never empty , it's always filled T
car goes past T SO
it's always filled T
can see the rim of my glasses as I type (observation)
filled with nonsensical blabbering T
not all the time T
I am being hard on myelf here T
I was thining about something interesting and now I can't find it T
lego movie T I
great fun movie T
must watch it again T
Trying to think about what I was thinking - feel a bit annoyed F T
Oh yes, was I born? T
this body was birthed out into this world,T
my poor mother, child birth is so dam painful I S F T
I wonder if I was painful T
she said childbirth was easy did she lie or did she just forget? T
she lied about me and said I was adopted T
who would know - doesn't matter T
car goes past T SO
rain puddles on road T I
cars spraying water off the back of their wheels as they drive along T I SO
Scratch head ... that was automatic, scratching head, I felt an itch and the next thing I am scratching. I didn't tell the 50 or so muscles that had to engage a a team in order to lift my hand up and fingers move to scratch T
wow lots of traffic now T SO
(looks out of windw) Action
oh God where was I going with all of this?T
Oh yes, automatic, sensation in the body and then the body auto responds.. I didn't have to tell it T
what is that? T
how did I know to type this while sitting here with my eyes closed watching and listening to my thoughts? T I
Now I am consciousof ir I ammakking spellos!!! T
Interesting , this exercise is giving me an insight (correct spello) into the nature of thoughts. That Elena is very clever, not sure what this is all about T
Just folowing the instructions..... T ...car horn SO
I just need to remember to do this in my daily life without the keyboard T
what is the time<
Oh still have about another 20 minutes, that's cool
my washing is not getting dry out there T....
let me think about thoughts... where was I T
I don't want to read back to where I was on this screen or that wil take me out of the moment T
where was I T
Oh yeah, was i born? or have I l already worked that out ... hell this is getting mixed up (laugh) T
oh yes, I was birthed out, but not "born" because physically I was laways somewhere T
but not as who I am now.. maybe just some cells in a body that carried me along for many generations..YES!! that coudl so be true T
where am I going with this, T
can't wait for my holiday in the bush next week, no phone or computer just painting WOW!!! T
what wil I give my frined for afternoon tea ?
Stay on track Elsa T
ummm so when I was birthed out, I was just genetically coded cells that knew to give me arms legs torso and other bits an dpieces... oh and a brain T
what is the brain T
B R A IN thought said write that in capitals T
I don't know why T
Is it an acronym for something T
A could equall appearing hey I jumped from B T
B could be Body T
ok come on smarty pants what would the R stand for R equals recognition T
don't know where this is all going but it's fun
(look at hands on keyboard) V.. my hands are getting older
I used to be able to wear really nice rings once
T
they are just hands, so glad I have them T
where was I ? T
GOd my head is scattered T
I could be interpreting T
and n could be what ? what what what ?
I will put it together and see if it makes any senseT
hungry , when is lunctime, can't stop now T S I
can't stop to eat now T
I need to finish this (looking at time) T A
Body, Recognition A... what the hell was A
Interpreting
Body recognising and interpreting nonsense hahahahah neurotransmissions T
Hey I like that T
Body recognising (re cognising)_ and interpreting neurotransmissions) T I
BRAIN T
Yo - sounds like Dr Spock T
Oh who cares, this is annoying sitting here doing this listening to my self crapping on T
No I don't do this to myself, the thoughts just come up, I couldn't even pre write a script of the stufff that is thought each minute... it's like a mad person... a fast flowing stream like a waste outlet that just flows garbage through my brain T
No not all garbage, and I don't know where the thoughts come from , don't think it is my brain because I am inside and outside the body.. I see that when I look T I
there goes a bus T
Hot F S
uncomfortable F
hungry S
restless F...... I see from outside my body when I am looking for where my thoughts come from T
I have no control over what will come up next or come out next or come in next... so confusing T
Very hot S
And my thoughts talk when I am looking at them like this... there is my voice talking in my head
sensation of hot in my body and then the thought says "Hot"
so is it the sensation or feeling comes first and then my BRAIN interprets it?
I think I discovered that before ...T
yes, I will hear something and then my brain says car (for instance) and then I I start to think about cars... is it me thinking about cars or
ok I heard a car drive through the wet road and made a swishy noise and then my mind looks for things that relate to swishing so then I get an image of a car slipping across the road and its yellow and then its dangerous (the road) because the slipping car coud plow into other cars and ...... ah that is how the story grows!!!
Going to have lunch.

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Elsa
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Re: Hi - is Ilona or Elena able to guide me please?

Postby Elsa » Sun Jun 01, 2014 4:53 am

[Did this experience shows how thoughts, feelings, sensations arise...?

Do you choose thoughts?

Do you choose sensations?

Do you choose feelings?

What is actually going?quote][/quote]

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Elsa
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Joined: Sat May 24, 2014 4:49 am

Re: Hi - is Ilona or Elena able to guide me please?

Postby Elsa » Sun Jun 01, 2014 5:03 am

Hi Elena,
This experience shows me:

No I do not choose thoughts
No I do not choose sensations
No I don't choose feelings.
What is going on?
All I can tell is this
I will hear or see something and instantly, that is interpreted by my brain and relayed back to me by a thought.
I have not been able to see that I think a thought.... like I my thoughts don't tell me a bang is going to happen a bang and then the bang happens, no it is the other way around. the noise happens first...then comes the thought.
while sitting typing, the sensation of feeling hot happened in tandem with my thoughts telling me I am feeling hot. What I mean is that they seem to happen a split second at the same time. hot sesation first then my thoughts telling me I am getting hot

I felt hungry and then the thought saying that I need to eat something happened.
So to me, I have no control over my thoughts, feelings or sensations, they are a reaction to the external and internal environments of outside body and inside body.
Blessings, Elsa


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