Guide requet for Ilona

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Aragon
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Re: Guide request for Ilona

Postby Aragon » Tue May 06, 2014 9:58 pm

What is that thoughts come to? Where do they come from? Is there a thinker that thinks thoguhts?
Are you the thinker?
Are you the feeler?
Are you the breather?
Are you awarer, knower?
Are you liv-er of life?

What feels true?

Sat with eyes closed, it's like I become the emptiness and disappear completely. Equally I become the awareness and object of awareness, the feelings & sensations. The sounds do not have that feel though there is no distance. Thought patterns arise but held in awareness dissolve - are cut off and put down.

As soon as I label, it disappears. What am I feeling? What a I thinking. My thoughts. My feelings. My sensations and so on. Then separation arises and the experience is gone.

As soon as I analyse, it is gone. There is a move from analysing to experiencing, to being. I am whatever arises and at the same time I am not.

The thoughts are not a problem here. There is no belief in their content . They are not being fed by emotion.

It has much of the experience I was having the other day in it. Just arisings and fallings.

There is no thinker, feeler, breather, awarer, knower, liv-er of life - that has all gone.

This feels true.....

Strange this came so easily when much of the day has been spent with sense of self, almost seemingly in reaction to the other day!

How to give up the chase? The search? The desire to know? Simply to be?
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala

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Ilona
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Re: Guide requet for Ilona

Postby Ilona » Tue May 06, 2014 11:47 pm

You are so close. Now look: what is that wants to know? What is that is looking for resolution?
Is there a separate entity or thought story ABOUT one?

You are spot on- simply be. Analysing can be fun, but that does not solve anything. Is being something you do or it's on by default?

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Aragon
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Re: Guide request for Ilona

Postby Aragon » Wed May 07, 2014 1:24 pm

Hi Ilona,

It felt like a will, a drive within, an urge, something basic and primitive.....

But, now, it seems, it's just another presentation of emotion, sensation and thought in awareness.

I was sitting on the bus this morning and it all seemed so clear. It's just like everything else, a cocktail of thoughts, feelings, sensations that arise together experienced in awareness, and that is all there is. The rest is just a story.

I have to say on one level it seems so obvious. And on that bus the thoughts were arising and there was no emotion in them. They had no power. The thought even arose, 'I've done it' but there was no sense of attainment. Underneath a sense of joy, positive emotion but entirely unrelated to attainment. Perhaps it is still like that now, it is too early to say. It feels very simple but at the same time a lot to take in..

The mind is still thinking the same old stories about me and mine, but I am able to see them for what they are... empty.

So I am not sure where 'I' am at. I think I have it.

But the thinking mind is still looking for a philosophy, an explanation.. it feels kind of like it's been hit over the head with a bat! How does that relate to the world we live in! In what sense do others really exist. Can the thinking mind ever fully understand? Or is it just trying to fabricate yet another story?

Let me stay with this some more and I will write back soon...

Thanking you again!
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala

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Aragon
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Re: Guide requet for Ilona

Postby Aragon » Wed May 07, 2014 1:34 pm

Ah, that thinking mind. Seems like an 'attempt' to perpetuate self again. I see it now!
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala

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Ilona
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Re: Guide requet for Ilona

Postby Ilona » Wed May 07, 2014 3:05 pm

Beautiful! Let this settle. Rest in the knowing, the silent joy is a good indicator that line has been crossed. :)

Write in a day or two what you notice, what changed and if seeking still on or it fell off.
Much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Aragon
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Re: Guide request for Ilona

Postby Aragon » Wed May 07, 2014 3:25 pm

Hi Ilona,

I just got a call. I'm on standby for heart surgery in the morning so if I don't reply for a while, that's why! If it goes ahead, hopefully, all being well, I will write when I come out...

Can I just say a huge thank you to you for your time and energy and commitment and perseverance and so much more! And given the situation, perfect timing! I cannot thank you enough, and would just like to compliment Liberation Unleashed for being a fantastic resource to the world.

Sending love!

Sagara
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala

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Ilona
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Re: Guide requet for Ilona

Postby Ilona » Wed May 07, 2014 7:36 pm

Wow, that is some journey!
Wish all goes well and smooth. Speak to you soon! I will be waiting to hear from you.

Much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Aragon
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Re: Guide request for Ilona

Postby Aragon » Thu May 08, 2014 3:32 pm

Hi Ilona,

Thanks so much for your message.... the call came this morning and I wasn't able to go in.... so I thought I'd write a little update.

It's been quite interesting, being put on standby for heart surgery. It's quite a big operation and though the risk of death is relatively low, the fact they open you up, stop your heart, do numerous other things and you wake up in intensive care with tubes down your mouth as well as other places, makes it a little more dangerous than everyday life and usually a cause for concern, both for the patient and the surrounding friends and family.

The whole experience for me was quite straightforward. There was initially some strong emotion which was felt, not labelled.

The stories that are weaved by the thinking mind - the possibility of death, not seeing family again, the future of the children, other possible complications, and so on - were relatively absent and when they did start, seemed almost immediately checked and subsided quite naturally.

A cynic might say i was blocking stuff out but emotion felt full and real. There was a presence and authenticity to it all. There was no fear but a calmness and again, a quiet joy at being with my lovely daughters in particular. I slept well last night, and would have slept longer hadn't my youngest woke me at five!

There has been a marked change in my experience. The way I see 'myself' has changed. I no longer see myself as anxious, as fearful etc. Instead feeling/emotion and contraction and thought processes arise in tandem with awareness. It is quite an amazing change.

If there were one thing that I suggests to me there is something left to resolve, its that the mind still chatters - just boring commentary type stuff (not the big stuff anymore) and - I don't know how to write it so let me use this phrase again: 'I am lost in thinking'.

Then, quite naturally, awareness of the thought process occurs, recognition of it as a thought process, and it disperses. But the involvement in the thinking process does in some ways it seem a mild irritant, or spoils the awareness of the flow of life.... does that not suggest some remnants of delusion?

Hoping you are well...
.
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala

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Aragon
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Re: Guide requet for Ilona

Postby Aragon » Thu May 08, 2014 7:12 pm

It's kind of funny but I knew as soon as id written that, I was expressing an expectation and I could see through it! Trying to communicate experience, I analyse it. Let me let this settle, as you advised and come back to you in a while!
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala

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Ilona
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Re: Guide requet for Ilona

Postby Ilona » Thu May 08, 2014 7:57 pm

Yes, mind still chatters. The content changes and story is noticed at the start of the pull, mostly. Should it stop talking? And most interestingly, what is it talking to, who is listening? What is that hears it? And if you say, I hear it, where is that I coming from? What is that i thought arises to?

I'm very glad to hear that your experience is not filled with anxiousness. Just know that all is unfolding and it should. I wish you speedy and smooth recovery, in case you will be called before you reply. :)

Another thing, this seeing is not a door to happy ever after, it's a beginning of deconstructing all that is left. There is a cleanup time, so don't worry, that you will still see old patterns coming up. Keep noticing new ones!

Much love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Aragon
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Re: Guide request for Ilona

Postby Aragon » Thu May 08, 2014 9:38 pm

Thanks Ilona, for your words, I'll write back in a couple of days.
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala

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Aragon
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Re: Guide request for Ilona

Postby Aragon » Sun May 11, 2014 3:21 am

Hello again Ilona. I really hope that you are well...

It's been, and still is being, a bit of a roller-coaster ride for me since we last communicated. At this time of writing I feel incredibly clear, relaxed, free - like the shackles have been removed. But it has by no means been like that all the time these past few days.

In fact I feel I have visited some rather dark places. Particularly I have experienced doubt, anxiety, disaproval and even despondency.

It is strange to say that for me because the experience has been different to the usual experience of having those emotions.....

Yes, they have been labelled, given a name, mainly because they were so familiar it seemed impossible not to - in eyes open waking life anyway....

And there was contraction, tension. But the mind did not take hold of the usual stories and the emotions were felt more fully and deeply like I had been dipped in a river of emotion, only it was more like I was the river of emotion.

Then closing the eyes, the labels vanish, the emotion is experienced so fully it is like bliss, and the river moves on.

Perhaps it is not true that the usual stories did not take hold. Today I experienced doubt so strong I thought everything was gone. The 'seeing' seemed like distant past. Then, the mind did take hold. That would not shift, it had become me and me it. It was only when the eyes were closed that the contraction was really felt and things moved on.

I have no idea where I am at with all this. I oscillate between the new life and the old. Between periods of contraction, tension and dark (felt) emotion to periods of clarity, flow, freedom and bliss.

I find myself in your hands. I feel I have seen but at times that seeing recedes so far it is difficult to make out. I would like it if you could test me some more. It needs to be real...

Here are some notes of the past few days which may give further insight into what is occurring.

.......................................

Thursday: lots of thinking, doubt, trying to reconnect with experience. Felt like approaching chaos. In evening, saw it again, so clearly, the self making stories

Friday: - relaxed, in flow, all came back. Evening, one reaction, mild panic, leveled out. Sensation and emotion felt like infinite sea of energy today, almost frightening (when the mind tried to label). Meditation now = closing eyes. Attention and continuity of awareness. Who is doing that? Continuity seems present, even without thinking mind
Noticing when self creates itself, tension and alienation arise. Being in flow = breadth & relaxation.
A good friend sent empathetic email: "I imagine that the uncertainty over the op must be frustrating ". This seemed absurd to me. There was no frustration, nor me to get frustrated. It was what it was, just flow.
anxiety in life, move to eyes closed = bliss
eyes closed, who is thinking? move to infinite space, no sense of center, thinking mind falls away, no location anywhere
so funny this mind, the tricks it plays, the web it weaves, but still catches 'me' sometimes (who finds it funny?)
still feeling contraction but story gone, or caught in awareness quickly
stronger the emotion of the story, more easily caught
main story = doubt - less prevalent today
anxiety disapproval, emotion felt, familiar - labelled, no story but felt = not always pleasant - ask who is feeling, obvious only feeling, sensation, thought - but still felt
easier eyes closed, busy life, harder to get a handle on it all

Saturday: been with kids all day, just responding, no decisions made, endless serving, body tired, needing rest, tiredness not like it used to be, felt now, no longer a story
feeling & emotion experienced more like energy now
another bout of doubt - strange, not doubting the understanding of the delusion but whether 'my' 'seeing' was strong or sufficient enough
Spent two hours holding daughter tonight. So much patience, no effort required. Just responding. Realising much of tension in life has resulted from what I want to do v what is wanted from me. Just stories I create.

reoccurring thoughts - the search of the thinking mind to make sense of all this? - in what sense does this world then exist? if you are the object of perception then are you not me? you ask me to look at direct experience but who are you asking and who is looking? is there not continuity of awareness - is there not an awareness of 'time', of consequences - i hold my daughter and i know if i drop her she will fall...... how to make sense of this world in which we live?


Once again, hoping you are well, and thanking you for your time....
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala

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Aragon
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Re: Guide requet for Ilona

Postby Aragon » Sun May 11, 2014 3:48 pm

It came to me just now, a kind of insight, realisation, knowing... that I have not fully absorbed the ramifications of what I have seen. It came to me whilst having a bath, that this water, this toilet, this heat, these walls that surround me, are all stories, all labels of my creation. It came to me that not just myself, but others too, are like this. That perhaps even time, the past and the future are all constructs of the mind. What then is real other than direct experience?

That insight did not seem to come from the thinking mind. But the thinking mind is bamboozled by it...
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala

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Aragon
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Re: Guide request for Ilona

Postby Aragon » Mon May 12, 2014 12:00 am

Hello again Ilona. I hope this finds you well...

Today has been much easier, free-er. Noticed especially when getting time out from the constant demands of parenting! Easier to absorb the experience. Seeing there's no one in control. Feeling again, the breadth, the flow - the doubting has seemingly passed.

Thinking continues, though less so and the content seems less consuming. Feelings are still sometimes painful but often joyful. Painful feeling not endulged but experienced.

Still experiencing a sense of self, reactions and contractions though the boundaries are more fluid and there is an understanding of what is taking place.

There is a desire to communicate, to share.

Hopefully settling down a little.

Much love to you...
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala

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Re: Guide requet for Ilona

Postby Ilona » Mon May 12, 2014 8:21 am

Thank you for messages. I see that he process is going well!
I have no idea where I am at with all this. I oscillate between the new life and the old. Between periods of contraction, tension and dark (felt) emotion to periods of clarity, flow, freedom and bliss.
Yes, there is this phase. Keep focussing in here now, on experience, on silence. It is available any time you look. This is real. The rest is in imagination. The stories about seeing or not included.

Can you look closer at this sense of self. What is it and where does it arise? Is it something permanent or it comes and goes? Is this something that life is happening to or as?

Is there something that should not be happening ?

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book


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