DANCING WITH THE WOLVES

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Shell
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Re: DANCING WITH THE WOLVES

Postby Shell » Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:57 pm

"But who is accepting or picking a thought passing by to do that, to go for a walk or a direction to stop walking. The Observer, the Awareness."

Look deeper in DE dear Mitja.

Is picking/choosing really happening and being done by an entity? An entity called Awareness, the Observer?

Or, is life simply lifeing in which all things can seem to happen....and a thought comes along and says, "I chose that"....or Awareness picked that"?

Look at this closely, dear Mitja.

Loads of love Shell xx

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Micha
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Re: DANCING WITH THE WOLVES

Postby Micha » Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:35 pm

hELOLO,

It come out that way helolo,..nice.

It s been happening for sure. It is common that a thought say I do that, agree. But not every time. I found when doing the exercise of walking described in the blog you sent, that there are no stops and starts sometimes, it seems it is just happening yes. Changing the dirrection when walking from one room to another is happening without thoughts too, also the Body stops at the wall simultaneously as well. It looks like, I am almost 100% sure that there were no thoughts at the time.

But yet I need to bring this knowledge above to the place of decision making. So far I couldn t find out, how or when the decision is made. The decision is brought for "I", I assume, but couldn t realize how. I see just struggling on one side and when right decision come a kind of relief in order oh yeah this is it. But lots of times there is no relief like this..What can I see here, Shell, or what I ve been doing wrong???

It is the matter that above written should be understood somehow, as others till now. On the other hand I think I received deeper insight today, not full but good enaugh. So it came like that:"if the thought of intention or desire passed or is left/observed like a claud, there is no struggling. No one there to hurt, what brings me obvious feeling of realization that I is there. And I could feel that. It was not shocking or shaking insight, but still good enaugh. Happy:)..lets see, what tomorrow brings, if there are still something..

In the mean time, what is the true (helpful one) nature of thoughts, Shell? Apart from making duality called illusion.

If you go back..Who wants to decide? "I" for sure...for desire you need an I, for a fear you need an I. This is what you ment with know Thyself first:).. but still my I is happy, but not satisfied with that anwer..the record you sent me, there are talking about that decision is was made 6 sekunds before the I knew it in order to make reaction.
Is picking/choosing really happening and being done by an entity? An entity called Awareness, the Observer?
Is it possible that there is no Observer called Awareness, who or which is maiking decisions? Is that everything is just happening like a film rolling? No changes are possible after the film is already shot/designed. It that there is a belief at the end, that what ever you do/decide it s good one way or another, anyway there is no possibilities for changes even not the smallest ones?

But yet, I can feel there is a missing piece here for my I, which is still grabbing something here. Or it is like Mooji says there is always some turbolence in duality, but keep an eye not to make a bed there for an I. Do I want too much? I will keep looking here..

Much love in the air,
Mitja

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Micha
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Re: DANCING WITH THE WOLVES

Postby Micha » Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:44 pm

There sre some mistakes above which could bring missunderstandin.

So if there is no One to hurt, there is no "I" for sure, this is what I felt today finally.

About statement that there is no Obesrver/Awareness making a decision...it is obivious that we are awareness, that awareness is the same as presence or devine. No thoughts no I, no strugglingm just happening. I ment here that I am wandering if everyting is just simple happening, no one bothered or worried about observing or deciding. It all about experiencing called happening.

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Shell
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Re: DANCING WITH THE WOLVES

Postby Shell » Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:09 pm

"if the thought of intention or desire passed or is left/observed like a claud, there is no struggling. No one there to hurt,"

Bingo.

Yes, a thought, ANY thought, no matter the content, is simply a cloud passing by and has nothing to do with you or what you are.

That thought could be, "I am dying of cancer". That thought could be, "I have to make a decision on this big business deal", that thought could be, "I am in control". That thought could be, "I have to study the book the Secret to be happy", that thought could be, "I just made a bad decision and Im in for hell", and that thought could be, "I should eat more vegetables and not eat meat because otherwise I am killing an aspect of God", that thought could be, "I have to remember to buy toilet paper", that thought could be, "Shell hates me and does not think I will get it", that thought could be, "oh, what a lovely rose and should my mother marry her boyfriend even though Dad is dead", and that thought could be, "man Im starving and need pommes frites and steak because Im sick to death of salad for dinner".

Look closely and watch the strange and never ending parade of thoughts. They dont stop. Perhaps during mediatation for a bit. But they return.

Where do thoughts come from?

Where do they go to?

What do they have to do with you?

Three questions, dear Mitja.

Heaps of love xxxxx

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Shell
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Re: DANCING WITH THE WOLVES

Postby Shell » Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:24 pm

see above.

I said three questions.

Here is the fourth 4th question.

If ALL is happening simultaneously in life lifing along....why would the aspect of life called thought not be allowed to do its thing? Is not thought simply a part of the whole of life lifing along? Is thought separate from life lifing along?

Hope you get the drift.

Secondly;, you wrote, "Is it possible that there is no Observer called Awareness, who or which is maiking decisions? Is that everything is just happening like a film rolling? No changes are possible after the film is already shot/designed. It that there is a belief at the end, that what ever you do/decide it s good one way or another, anyway there is no possibilities for changes even not the smallest ones?"

With your question we are getting into metaphysics which is not a part of guiding here.

Essentially, all the above questions that you posed are designed as pointers to point you within to your own answers. Answers that are viscerally understood; not only intellectually.

Mooji is great. He points. Which is what I seek to do. It is for you to find the answer within in direct experience.

Dont fall into the trap of intellectualising and pondering on your questions or starting discussions on them with the blind who lead the blind.

Such questions have only EVER been posed by sages and saints and the Moojis of the world; to point you within and away from distration.

But if you prefer to go of into the Law of Attraction by all means go ahead. Its not what Mooji or Jesus or I point to.

Loads of love xxxx

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Micha
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Re: DANCING WITH THE WOLVES

Postby Micha » Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:50 pm

xxxxx,

Yes xxxx, happening is all about. To much questions, to much thoughts, never ending story, just life-long bettle. Feeling this deeply lately and before also, but couldn t find the way out. Befor I use to crash with pondering and analysing practily all my beliefs, problems so far, but agree couldn t go deeper and furter like that. Couldn t feel the flow of Life for a longer time, missed happening. Thoughts are a huge distraction of happening. THIS WHAT "I" WAS SEARCHING, BUT DIDN T SEE:). I am still reserved and don t wont to celebrate, but I noticed how deep and helpful is insight of that there is no I. And it fits finaly with all my previos insights. All the attachments can be easily/quicker left away after that. Yesterday after my post I took hot bath and there were some anwers..no complications needed at that point. If there is no I, no One bothers (=or just I can) about Law of attraction or desireses or whether who is a DOER. All the questions about who is a doer are conditioned by "I" want. When you understand this it is easy. It can be helpful, but at the end not needed; I had years ago such a deep wish for hints and devine guidinees, so I got; for good and not so good sometimes it seems, but it work in a direction to point out something in me for sure. ..anyway happening, happening, happening...

So very GRATEFUL right here, right now. Through simplifying happening is pouring in and not just that, happening brings LOVE. Remember I wrote at the beggining that wanted to be in love..so who knows how many benefits this recognition brings.
Where do thoughts come from?
Where do they go to?
What do they have to do with you?
The thoughts come from nowhere, go to nowhere and thew don t have nothing to do with me. And 4th question, yes by all means let be it, anyway it is not in my domain, so I can just accept. I was just corious if there is something more, so I provoced a little to see whether you will keep it simple :)..anyway I would like to say I ve got here lots of helpful looking about the nature of thoughts and raw sensing too.

Happy. Sending Love.
xxxxx

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Shell
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Re: DANCING WITH THE WOLVES

Postby Shell » Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:22 pm

Dearest Mitja,

it was lovely to read your happy post. It seems that a relaxing and natural sense of gratitude are happening in your DE. And Im deeply glad for you.

"Remember I wrote at the beggining that wanted to be in love..so who knows how many benefits this recognition brings."

....Yes, I do remember. What if I was to tell you, , that you already are, have always been, and can only ever be EXACTLY what you are looking for? Love. Being Love. Being and Having Love.

Projecting into the future about beneifts of seeing through the illusion of I is simply falling into belief again. You now haave the tool to immediately question or observe non-judgmentally ANY thought or apparent group of thoughts that pass by on the ever changing landscape of life lifing along.

Why dont you check this out in DE. And report back. Is peace essentially ALWAYS present, until we believe something untrue? So it can seem that peace disappears. It does not. We only start to believe something untrue and block our natural peace. DE this for a while and report back.

And secondly, please let me know if there are any quetions or concerns you have re our inquiry here on LU.

Are you sure without any doubt that you have seen through the illusion of I very directly?

Much love xxxxxx

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Micha
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Re: DANCING WITH THE WOLVES

Postby Micha » Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:12 pm

Hej ho,
Why dont you check this out in DE. And report back. Is peace essentially ALWAYS present, until we believe something untrue? So it can seem that peace disappears. It does not. We only start to believe something untrue and block our natural peace. DE this for a while and report back.
Peace is a natural state of being, so it s always present and willing to be here for you, waiting for you to come back from searching the love/safety which is always at home, here and now. It is exactly like you wrote, very nice Shell.
Projecting into the future about benefits of seeing through the illusion of I is simply falling into belief again. You now haave the tool to immediately question or observe non-judgmentally ANY thought or apparent group of thoughts that pass by on the ever changing landscape of life lifing along.
O.K. thanks, that s nice, anyway I would like to sumarize here about this how to use THE TOOL in order to check if I understand it right. So, the thought always brings story, the content which is usualy untrue. We found out that whenever there is "I want" behind, this is untrue. How do you know which thought points to the true? I understand about the thoughts more in direction that they are not to important, that evendough if there is someone which point to the true, it s o.k. too, not too important, basic think is to oberve them and let them go. We talked also about that there are some thoughts which show what realy happened, others are predictions/desires or fears. I believe I am not too sure here how or why to check; somehow I got a feeling that there is too much concerning about the thoughts and the most important that they are distraction of what is here and now. O.K. if there is a very practical thought which helps you to do or not forget something what are you doing at the moment, it s fine and helpful. Everything others is a distraction which take you from happening. So I assume, the first and the last (=most of the times) check point is whether this thought is helpful for me at the moment, if not you can go, thank you very much you beautiful thought..

About other qustions I will clean it up everything in next days/week. Thanks for asking. I would like to check all my pointers first, allow happening to happen, afterward I would confirm if celebration is yet to begin.

You described at the beggining that inner hearings and lucid dremas are part of sensing as well. Can you tell something more about it, for me, please.

On the other hand we havent had a word about what feelings in the matter of sensing are. Emotions probably not, they seem to be product of thoughts, so can t be real. What are feelings? I didn t find realy defenit anwer.

Much love and have a nice weekend,
Mitja

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Shell
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Re: DANCING WITH THE WOLVES

Postby Shell » Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:01 pm

Dearest Mitja,

"How do you know which thought points to the true?"', you ask.

You dont answer the question with a fast intellectual answer based on what you have heard from others or read about. You go deep and quiet and find the answer that is YOUR truth in the moment. You ca

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Shell
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Re: DANCING WITH THE WOLVES

Postby Shell » Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:21 pm

can aknowledge all the intellectual answers that you have absorbed from prior learning and reading and hearing from others. And temporarily lay all those answers aside. Go quiet, and let YOUR answer arise.

This kind of work or inquiry can also be continued so-called post gate. By your own admission you have seen through the illusion of I; but there is mostly a lot of other stuff to see through, too. There are support groups for this kind of inquiry if you are interested, beyond this LU initial inquiry engagement - which is about guidance to see through the illusion of a personal I for yourself; directly.

" I understand about the thoughts more in direction that they are not to important, that evendough if there is someone which point to the true, it s o.k. too, not too important, basic think is to oberve them and let them go.", you wrote.

Thoughts, not believed in, do not need to be let go. Thoughts you believe in, particularly the ones that seem to cause you distress or fear, can NOT be let go of. BECAUSE you believe in them. Saying, "ok I will just let this thought go" to a thought you believe/ dont believe in (eg, "I am not afraid of cancer because there is no death and there is no me here and no one here in the world and GOD is eternal Love and I am thus eternal") is denial or suppression. These thoughts need to be put to direct inquiry by you, until you find YOUR truth about them. Otherwise its egoic denial. Sort of like chanting "I am not afriad" even while you are terrified. If there is ANY discomfort or ANY fear or ANY tiny little bit of anger or sadness over a thought, you can be VERY sure that you believe something that is not true; Howeverf, chanting something you do not believe over an upsetting thought to repress it is denial. THIS DOES NOT WORK.

Again; this is stuff you can work through post LU gate in support groups; if you want to.

"You described at the beggining that inner hearings and lucid dremas are part of sensing as well. Can you tell something more about it, for me, please".

Lucid dreaming, not only during the night but 24 hours may or may not happen. Its nothing special not is it any special talent. If its not a part of your direct experience, its not a part of your world and thus simply does not exist for you. You need only be concerned with what exists for you, simply because nothing else does exist, except what exists for you. Should lucid dreaming be a part of your direct experience, then that is all it is. A part of your direct experience. What you then go on to interpret into it; should it arise, is what can Always be questioned through direct inquiry. (ie, Is it true, what I believe?)

"On the other hand we havent had a word about what feelings in the matter of sensing are. Emotions probably not, they seem to be product of thoughts, so can t be real. What are feelings? I didn t find realy defenit anwer.", you wrote.

You have to help me here, dear Mitja, because I dont understand your question. Can you give clear examples for me to understand what the difference is between a feeling and an emotion?

Happy weekend to you to and much love, shell xxxx

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Shell
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Re: DANCING WITH THE WOLVES

Postby Shell » Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:44 pm

**********************please see post above, this is just a short addition ***************************

in relation to your question and my answer to you above, here is a perfect question to do direct inquiry on. It is perfect for you, because it is your own question from an earlier page in our inquiry together.

Here is you question, again, "I believe also that there is destiny, so what ever I do, I can t change important part of my destiny; the problem is that I know and feel about thoughts, but about destiny I just believe it what I wrote, i don t know for sure.".

Mitja, this is YOUR question and only YOUR answer; or YOUR truth as it really is for you right now, is useful. Read my post above, and then spend quiet time finding YOUR answer to YOUR question. Not mine; not someone elses, YOUR honest answer. That is the answer you need, right now. YOUR answer, YOUR truth. What is TRUE for YOU right now. This is how you Uncover beliefs you never knew you had. By finding YOUR answer deep within.

Love and hugs, Shell xxxx

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Micha
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Re: DANCING WITH THE WOLVES

Postby Micha » Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:41 pm

Hi dear Shell,

I ve been around, perhaps to much thinking again :)..

I have lots of success and experience in getting MY TRUTH, which breaks the wrong beliefs. I agree with you completely that you can t repress thought you believe in (thanks you very much for all details), but still looking for how to do it through direct inquiry.

Till now for me was the most important to recognize the wrong belief, to recognize where I am. As the problems and anwers are always put on the same place this is the hardest part. After that you need to let it go, to allow happening and the anwer/truth will arise spontaneously.

Concerning to the above wriiten I ve been looking to all my pointers through the last two days. You point well. I know, most of the pointers of mine are connected with destiny or future. At the moment I can realize that there is I behind and let it be in order to have focus in presence rather than chatting with endless stream of thoughts. The funny part of my story is that I managed to leave behind all major beliefs considering the past; so I have experience in that area and it is easyer, much easyer and almost no suffering, just impatience and struggling.
Should lucid dreaming be a part of your direct experience, then that is all it is. A part of your direct experience. What you then go on to interpret into it; should it arise, is what can Always be questioned through direct inquiry.


How can I question through direct inquiry if those dreams should arise?
Here is you question, again, "I believe also that there is destiny, so what ever I do, I can t change important part of my destiny; the problem is that I know and feel about thoughts, but about destiny I just believe it what I wrote, i don t know for sure.".
Through dE looking I am able to realize that there are just thoughts of prediction, beliefs, "I" concerns which doesn t have nothing to do with what it is. At the moment the best I could do is to let those thoughts pass by and be in presence and wait and allow happening. But here is initiation I have, so dreams are going on, foolowed by pain and other hints, so I need too understand it somehow. and it would be very helpful to find out how to do it through direct inwuiry.
But yet lucid dreams came into realization many times, so all my impatience about future is connected with lucid dreams and also the fact that spiritual transformation is changing my life dramaticily through the years, so basicly I dont have a clue what to do next generaly speaking, so it is all about HAPPENING and allowing to be, not to paddle and lose energy with mind thinking or controling; smoth and easy..it is to easy for "I" :)) he he..

Sending Love and gratitude,
Mitja

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Shell
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Re: DANCING WITH THE WOLVES

Postby Shell » Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:12 pm

Dearest Mitja,

"Through dE looking I am able to realize that there are just thoughts of prediction, beliefs, "I" concerns which doesn t have nothing to do with what it is."

...great. Good seeing. Can you also see that all these "thoughts of prediction, beliefs, "I" concerns" are ALSO and equally what is arising in the present moment? That all is arising and subsiding and changing in each moment. The whole shebang?

"But yet lucid dreams came into realization many times, so all my impatience about future is connected with lucid dreams"

....do past and future exist anywhere except in imagination? What does exist for you, except what is happening now? Now? and now? Look directly and see what is imagination and mind wandering....and what is "now". And report back.

....the usefuflness of lucid dreaming, which can become a 24 hour happening, is simply "awareness of dreaming". And simultaneously, with awareness of dreaming, arises the awareness that the content of dreams are simply not true. Basta. NO content of ANY dream is real. Its but a dream. Basta.

DE this for yourself. NEVER believe what I say. I simply invite you to DE this for yourself. And report back.

Thirdly, I may be being dense and not understanding, but I think I asked you a few questions that you have not answered.

Could you help me, by re-reading my posts, and VERY carefully writing out my questions to you for yourself, and VERY carefully check which ones you have clearly answered directly. And the ones that you have not answered, could you first 1) paste my question and 2) answer it or them very directly without straying from the subject into other thoughts or subjects.

Sending loads of love and enjoying our communications very much, Shell xxxx

....

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Micha
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Re: DANCING WITH THE WOLVES

Postby Micha » Thu Mar 13, 2014 5:43 pm

Dearest Shell,

I read last two posts from you over and over again in order to find where direct inquiry match my insights. I noticed some helpful thing, but not the whole idea..o.k. lets try not to think, just look, it should be easyer and quicker as well:)..I am glad that you enjoy staying with me also.
You have to help me here, dear Mitja, because I dont understand your question. Can you give clear examples for me to understand what the difference is between a feeling and an emotion?


I understand feelings like something which comes and go, like a burst of energy or pain which, which show you where to focus. Emotions are developed when you start believing in thoughts and making expectations.

...
great. Good seeing. Can you also see that all these "thoughts of prediction, beliefs, "I" concerns" are ALSO and equally what is arising in the present moment? That all is arising and subsiding and changing in each moment. The whole shebang? [/quote
Yes, I can see.

"
But yet lucid dreams came into realization many times, so all my impatience about future is connected with lucid dreams"
....
do past and future exist anywhere except in imagination? What does exist for you, except what is happening now? Now? and now? Look directly and see what is imagination and mind wandering....and what is "now". And report back.


MIND is always wondering about the past or future, always late to the now show. Now is just what it is, dE.


....the usefuflness of lucid dreaming, which can become a 24 hour happening, is simply "awareness of dreaming". And simultaneously, with awareness of dreaming, arises the awareness that the content of dreams are simply not true. Basta. NO content of ANY dream is real. Its but a dream. Basta.
When you write like this I agree completely. Past and future is imagination.

However there are thoughts/ideas that don t have nothing to do with now as well and yet they are begging of something which will make you to go trevel for example, or to start a new project, call someone, ect. There are also flashes, ect. I also had many connected night dreams which took me to the place in future where I obviously had to be and my "I" couldn t realize that without help. Shell, I consider those elements as tools to use in LIFING. Is it possible that this tools are the tools of "I", which need to be abandoned?

Is it all about happening, allowing happening and not disturbing happening with "I" interference.

Sending love,
Mitja

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Shell
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Re: DANCING WITH THE WOLVES

Postby Shell » Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:30 pm

Dearest Mitja,

"However there are thoughts/ideas that don t have nothing to do with now as well and yet they are begging of something which will make you to go trevel for example, or to start a new project, call someone, ect"

So where is the problem? Are these thoughts happenining now now and now? Are these thoughts not simply a seemingly separate part (but NVEVER separate part in truth) of what is arising NOW? Where is the problem? Why are you choosing to suffer over what you can not control? What happens, happens. This ou cincludes all arising thoughts. What happens, happens. And I repeat, this includes all arising thoughts about past and future and fantasies of lucid dreams.

Have you control over ANWTHING that comes up in what you call "lifing"?

Look hard and very directly, Mija dear xxxxx


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