I tried on my own. I am exhausted

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aubergine99
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Re: I tried on my own. I am exhausted

Postby aubergine99 » Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:08 pm

Hello again,

Good work, Lourdes.
Can a thought really have any power?
Well… out of a body: NO!!!
Inside a body it appears to have the power to condition. Like if I am hungry and think of tomatoes it is very likely that I (this body-mind-emot) will choose to eat tomatoes… like "a physical need + a thought" do have power. I am not saying that the "physical + thought" have a need of any "I", but power…
Thoughts do appear to have the power to condition but in reality they have no power. When a thought is believed, it appears to have power but there is no ‘I’ there to believe. It is only another thought that appears to do the believing.

This is a story of a hungry body, that’s all. In DE, a sensation was felt, a thought about hunger arose, another thought about tomatoes appeared, and it’s quite probable walking to find tomatoes would have ensued. All this with no ‘I’ involved, happening spontaneously.

Take a look at this Rupert Spira video clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI60BXEMmvY
The Mind does not know Anything
No there is no I. As the answer is being written a strong tension arises. Like the "no-I" is upset, tense body, eyes contracted, heavy head. Lots of "resistance". No "I" really. Desire to be somewhere else to free the tension.
Can you see that a feeling of tension is noticed and a thought labels that as ‘upsetting’. Mind cannot make sense that there is no ‘I’. That is the meaning behind the sense of resistance.

Make a habit of really noticing how things happen in DE. See that it’s a combination of sense perceptions and thoughts. Just be aware of that.
After dinner yesterday following up the previous post, I stared at the rest of your post… a couple of hours and without any ability to respond in writing. Now it is the morning of Friday 8… yes accept that there can be a difference between "sensation" and sense "of me"… in the sense that you point that "me" may come from the mind. I am puzzled: "me" feels right even if I've seen there is no I.
It feels right only because of familiarity - unsubstantial habitual thoughts take a while to drop. When there is confusion, puzzlement, doubt etc. it is always due to a thought. There is no doubt in DE.

Thanks for doing the exercise.

Now repeat it for another 5 mins but this time leave out the 'I' and just include the verb in the present tense, ie. coughing.... During the exercise, really notice, aside from what is happening in the experience, there is no ‘I’ anywhere.

Sending love,
Brigitte

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Lourdes
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Re: I tried on my own. I am exhausted

Postby Lourdes » Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:36 pm

Hello, back here with you Brigitte
Thoughts do appear to have the power to condition but in reality they have no power. When a thought is believed, it appears to have power but there is no ‘I’ there to believe. It is only another thought that appears to do the believing.
This believing thing feels very strange… cann't see it in direct experience… can't see it as a thought

Watched thrice the Rupert Spira Video Clip. Which I had heard before and always feels so true!!! So clear…

It brings light to the mind process, the experiencing and the awarenes (this one is always so very and wonderfully permanent when looked at)… the point is missed here about the believing thing… how is believe created? How does it operate? How do we realize something is "believed"? as opposed to true, or even untrue? It is like believe equals truth, but it requires a process… and it is automatic at the same time...getting mixed up here (as have been in other occasions when the believe thing has appeared in the screen of observation)

I clearly see your point about resistance. Mind tries to figure out things that escape its scope.
Make a habit of really noticing how things happen in DE. See that it’s a combination of sense perceptions and thoughts. Just be aware of that.
Fiuuu… appears so difficult. Will try my best!!!

Now for the exercise

Typing
Rereading exercise
Reading sending love,
Fingers on the laptop
Hearing the fan
A dog barking far away
Some cold air entering the window hitting the nose
The nose feels colder than the rest of the face
The noise of a byke passing by
Again another dog in the distance
Now the noise of a car
Body breathing
Seeing the darkness out side
Checking it is 21:22 in the computer
Neighbours arriving at their home
Correcting a mistake in writing
Breathing and staring at the screen
Seeing the cat getting in the room
Hearing it scratch its "nails?..."
Realization I do not really remember if nails is the right word for cats "nails"
Realizing one thing noticed after another without an apparent reason other that being attentive at direct experience.
Checking if the 5 minuts have passed
Seeing the computer time is 21:26
Experiencing a sort of calm in this body
Again a dog barking at a distance
Now not a sound coming from outside the house
Again car, dog, again hearing nothing
Wondering how I is not needed for Direct Experiencing.


Done

Thanks again you are being very helpful Brigitte

Lourdes

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aubergine99
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Re: I tried on my own. I am exhausted

Postby aubergine99 » Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:14 pm

Hello Lourdes,
It brings light to the mind process, the experiencing and the awareness (this one is always so very and wonderfully permanent when looked at)… the point is missed here about the believing thing… how is believe created? How does it operate? How do we realize something is "believed"? as opposed to true, or even untrue? It is like believe equals truth, but it requires a process… and it is automatic at the same time...getting mixed up here (as have been in other occasions when the believe thing has appeared in the screen of observation).
I’m not sure I understand you here. You seem to be getting confused between truth and belief? That is a story about thoughts and we are not getting into stories now. You need to LOOK into your direct experience. The whole point of this process is to see clearly that there is no ‘I’.

Thanks for doing the last exercise. Can you see there was no need for an ‘I’ entity? Life goes on exactly the same without it.

Is there a hearer that hears?
Is there a seer that sees?
Is there a thinker that thinks?
Investigate this and please let me know? Don’t think for the answers – just look.

Speak soon
Brigitte

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Lourdes
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Re: I tried on my own. I am exhausted

Postby Lourdes » Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:34 pm

Hello Brigitte
I'll do what you say.
I'm having a big cold and feel tired and somehow gone.
Will investigate and concentrate on this las three questions.

Thank you
Lourdes

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Lourdes
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Re: I tried on my own. I am exhausted

Postby Lourdes » Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:51 am

Hello Brigitte
Is there a hearer that hears?
Is there a seer that sees?
Is there a thinker that thinks?
Investigate this and please let me know? Don’t think for the answers – just look.
In looking there is no appearance of I + looking, or I + hearing, or I + seeing…
In the thinking it feels different, like this thinking is "part & parcel" of a "this expression of life", label it "me" or other.

In previous posts I commented that when looking for an "I", I found the deeper sense, experience, expression of an I in "awareness". An empty space for perception. A non activity in which activity and non-activity is noticed. I am spanish and the word does not exist in this language so it was not an automated labelling of what was felt. If this one had to explain it in Spanish this one would have used an expression like: it perceived a sort of "unplugged radar". A vibration, informing of what is going on and/or in the waiting, and/or in the nothing.

I've learned with the mind and felt with the body through the exercises that an "I", not only is not needed but that beyond that "aware-ing" – "perception-ing" thing it (the I) does not exist. The "aware-ing" IS.

Sense organs and thoughts and feelings, and sensing, sort of reporting "to it".

--------------------------------------
Now, is there (here, this person) an "attachment" to "what"? How to free it?

--------------------------------------

Identification of the Topic "I tried on my own. I am exhausted" has to do with this "I-do-not-know-what"

Direct Experience shows a truth that, this "not-I" here is revolving against, and thus the need for a guide.

That living, is more of a verb than of a noun (subject-object) is clearer to "me" than ever. But…

It, "thought or no thought", "believe or not believe", has the power of even getting me ill. Maybe something is stirring so strongly that the cold is the body reflection… (I rarely catch a cold of this dimension)

How to surrender to the Direct Experience?

Can you guide me through this puzzle?

Thank you Brigitte for your attention and dedication.

If it is in the aim of this GUIDING AREA, please try to cover some of this puzzle-ing happening.

Thanks again
Love
Lourdes

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Re: I tried on my own. I am exhausted

Postby aubergine99 » Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:59 pm

Great! Good work, Lourdes. I can see looking is happening.
In looking there is no appearance of I + looking, or I + hearing, or I + seeing…
In the thinking it feels different, like this thinking is "part & parcel" of a "this expression of life", label it "me" or other.

I've learned with the mind and felt with the body through the exercises that an "I", not only is not needed but that beyond that "aware-ing" – "perception-ing" thing it (the I) does not exist. The "aware-ing" IS.
YES exactly! There is only life-ing, as in all experience. Do you also see that there is no separation between experiencing and experienced? When you look at a table, is there a line between the looking and the object? If so, where is this line? When you hear the sound of a car, is there a separating line between the hearing of it and the car? When does sound of car, stop, and object car, start?
Now, is there (here, this person) an "attachment" to "what"? How to free it?

Identification of the Topic "I tried on my own. I am exhausted" has to do with this "I-do-not-know-what".
Is there really an attachment, Lourdes? If it exists, then you should be able to find it?
Direct Experience shows a truth that, this "not-I" here is revolving against, and thus the need for a guide.

That living, is more of a verb than of a noun (subject-object) is clearer to "me" than ever. But…
YES again. Subject, object, verbs are useful grammatical components when looking at language.

Do you see that in complete stillness and quiet, there is only aware-ing there.
It, "thought or no thought", "believe or not believe", has the power of even getting me ill. Maybe something is stirring so strongly that the cold is the body reflection… (I rarely catch a cold of this dimension).
Does thought/belief have power? Take a look. Where is power in DE? Just see that it is another thought saying that. Just observe the thoughts. I sympathise, Lourdes, as I suffer badly with colds myself.

The self as the ‘chooser’

Take two objects/possibilities, of which you might ordinarily choose either e.g. coffee or tea, blue pen or black pen, salt and pepper, then sit and see if you can find the choice-point where you could go either way. Describe how choosing happens.

The self as the ‘thinker’

Where do thoughts come from?
Are you in control of them?
Can you stop a thought from coming?
Can you stop it in the middle?
Do you know what the next thought will be?
Is "I" a different thought from the thought of say, a table?
Can a thought think?

NB The truth effortlessly reveals itself when there is more awareness in the moment. Any attachment is imagined in the mind.

Brigitte x

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Lourdes
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Re: I tried on my own. I am exhausted

Postby Lourdes » Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:17 pm

Hello again Brigitte
Great! Good work, Lourdes. I can see looking is happening
Sounds very reaffirming...
In here still lots of doubt and fogginess.
Do you also see that there is no separation between experiencing and experienced?
It sounds very weird. Let's see. What could I do or arrange for being able to be clear on that?
Looking at hands on the keyboard. Apparently there is an intent, a space, a keyboard, a content to type … No this doesn't work. This is being fragmented…
Let's try with hearing. … the fan of the computer, a car passing by… sound and hearing and hearer appear as one.
When you look at a table, is there a line between the looking and the object?
With the table it is also easy… looking involves the seeing, the looker and the table… all as one. Phiuuu this is demanding of a concentrated sharp attention!!!
If so, where is this line? When you hear the sound of a car, is there a separating line between the hearing of it and the car? When does sound of car, stop, and object car, start?
Not clear on this one with the car… could it be that after millisecs of hearing car… mind lables engine-sound-car? It is so immediate!!!! If there is a line … it is between shifts of focus… on the hearing on the labeling…
(had to go out and breath fresh air after these answers… this is feeling very heavy and unexpected - wonder if it will sink in)
Is there really an attachment, Lourdes? If it exists, then you should be able to find it?
After the previous questions looked at… attachment is to the habit of looking at this body, this mind, this world in always the same manner…
Really and profoundly hope for truth to reveil itself beyond this manner… DE with attentive focus is doing something here.

Ok.. I leave the rest of questions for tomorrow, this experiencing must be looked at again before going further…

Except:
Does thought/belief have power? Take a look. Where is power in DE? Just see that it is another thought saying that. Just observe the thoughts.
Observing the thoughts presents a strong doubt about conditioning. Do not understand power in DE… In all, maybe I should ask you to present this differently… missing something…

Will come back tomorrow. Hopefully with the Self-chooser / Self Thinker looked at in depth.

Thank you Brigitte, thank you!!
Big hug
Lourdes

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Lourdes
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Re: I tried on my own. I am exhausted

Postby Lourdes » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:01 pm

Hello again Brigitte
This is wha'ts come up on the self "choosing-thinking" thing.
The self as the ‘chooser’

Take two objects/possibilities, of which you might ordinarily choose either e.g. coffee or tea, blue pen or black pen, salt and pepper, then sit and see if you can find the choice-point where you could go either way. Describe how choosing happens.
Choosing happens in a matter of almost no time. It happens every moment. There is no real experience of choosing. The only thing that is seen is that conditioning has made the choice before I decide. Like some sensing of comfort-discomfort does the choosing. Sometimes there is a feeling of attraction towards one thing or at times there is repulsion. There seems to be no precise choosing point.
The self as the ‘thinker’

Where do thoughts come from?
I was going to say the shifts of focus… and I'd be in the same place… where do shifts of focus come from?:
Nowhere known. I really have no proof of a source. Cannot pinpoint a precise place, space, object or anything for thoughts originating.
Are you in control of them?
No. Absolutely not. No control
Can you stop a thought from coming?
Impossible!!
Can you stop it in the middle?
As an act of will? Whose will? No. Phantasized on this over the years… nope.
Do you know what the next thought will be?
Is there a way? No, it doesn't look like it. Again no experiencing shows what the next thought will be. Will pop up that's for sure...
Is "I" a different thought from the thought of say, a table?
With the same logic no. No. The thought is always a thought… labels..., pointers… they are never the real thing. Thought as mind registration is same mind registration for "I" than for "table".
Can a thought think?
Can't figure out how. No a thought cannnot think.

Ufff… this "thinking stuff" feels very difficult and stressing.

Waiting to hear your comments and pointers.

Love
Lourdes

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Re: I tried on my own. I am exhausted

Postby aubergine99 » Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:23 pm

Hello Lourdes,
In here still lots of doubt and fogginess.
It sounds very weird. Let's see. What could I do or arrange for being able to be clear on that?

Looking at hands on the keyboard. Apparently there is an intent, a space, a keyboard, a content to type … No this doesn't work. This is being fragmented…
This is maybe confusing because it is more than one experience.
Looking at hands on keyboard = 1 experience, intent = 1 thought, a space = thought, seeing a keyboard = 1 seeing experience, a content to type = one thought. This is life flowing.
When you look at a table, is there a line between the looking and the object?
With the table it is also easy… looking involves the seeing, the looker and the table… all as one. Phiuuu this is demanding of a concentrated sharp attention!!!
You can see this clearly as one but is there a looker?
When you hear the sound of a car, is there a separating line between the hearing of it and the car? When does sound of car, stop, and object car, start?
Not clear on this one with the car… could it be that after millisecs of hearing car… mind lables engine-sound-car? It is so immediate!!!! If there is a line … it is between shifts of focus… on the hearing on the labeling…
(had to go out and breath fresh air after these answers… this is feeling very heavy and unexpected - wonder if it will sink in.)
I asked you if there was a separating line between the sound of the car and the object car. Can you separate the sound of a car from the car itself? How can you have a sound without the object? What would the sound be of without the object? Surely the sound and object are indivisible as an experience? Just one experiencing/experienced.
Is there really an attachment, Lourdes? If it exists, then you should be able to find it?
After the previous questions looked at… attachment is to the habit of looking at this body, this mind, this world in always the same manner…
You are telling me what the attachment is but you have not answered my question? Where is attachment in DE? How can you tell me what an attachment is since you have not told me where it is? Does it really exist, Lourdes?
Does thought/belief have power? Take a look. Where is power in DE? Just see that it is another thought saying that. Just observe the thoughts.
Observing the thoughts presents a strong doubt about conditioning. Do not understand power in DE… In all, maybe I should ask you to present this differently… missing something…
That was my question. There is no power to be found. Is there?
.
The self as the ‘chooser and thinker’

Choosing happens in a matter of almost no time. It happens every moment. There is no real experience of choosing. The only thing that is seen is that conditioning has made the choice before I decide. Like some sensing of comfort-discomfort does the choosing. Sometimes there is a feeling of attraction towards one thing or at times there is repulsion. There seems to be no precise choosing point.
You are saying that conditioning has made the choice before you decide. Who or what decides? Please look at this again as you need to be clear on this.

The self as ‘the Body’

Does the body experience sensations and thought?

Are you the body?

From your responses to date, it seems as if you are seeing that there is no ‘I’ controlling, choosing, doing, hearing, thinking etc. but there is still some confusion, particularly with regards to thoughts. What is getting in the way of understanding? What exactly are you having trouble with?

Love Brigitte

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Lourdes
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Re: I tried on my own. I am exhausted

Postby Lourdes » Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:44 pm

Hello Brigitte,
Here it goes.
You can see this clearly as one but is there a looker?
A looker? NO. There is no looker.
I asked you if there was a separating line between the sound of the car and the object car. Can you separate the sound of a car from the car itself? How can you have a sound without the object? What would the sound be of without the object? Surely the sound and object are indivisible as an experience? Just one experiencing/experienced.
————I sense I'm giving you trouble… or you are giving it to me… or I am giving it to myself (yes, yes… all I & you and myself are wrong)… Feeling sad, crying, feeling upset, wanting to leave this place, desiring to see, all this is happening, and there is awareness, and sadness, and anger, and … oh how exhausting this is ———

Well I try again: Hear the sound, go to te mind, identify it comes from car, this is what I experience. Line? Subsequent experiencing, first from the sense of hearing, after go to "brain recordings" information is there that it must be a car…, after realizing "sound + car" are perceived here as: sound -experience- car -experienced visual image- … sort of in fast succession.
What would the sound be of without the object? Surely the sound and object are indivisible as an experience?
Sound is perceived. Object is imagined... That's how it is sensed here. They become one when sound and image are added.

Now this is bringing uneasiness… in the sense that "I" try to get the question but maybe "I" do not understand or have no words, sorry. Or... another example, might be simpler?
Where is attachment in DE?
No attachment in DE.

There is no power in DE.

There is no power in thoughts.
You are saying that conditioning has made the choice before you decide. Who or what decides?
There is no I deciding. This one got the question wrong… it appeared that your question went in the direction of finding a choice-point. No point. And now that the question is better understood as to the "doer"… really no doer… no self… no I. A continuity of experience-ings.

Now see how easily this Lourdes is caught in the "I"ing? It seems that no matter how many times DE shows there is no "I"… "I" slips in … just like that!! This is so discouraging!!
The self as ‘the Body’

Does the body experience sensations and thought?
What? The body appears as a sensation. Thought appears, bunch of them… one after the other, after the other, after the other. The body is an experience but not an experiencer, nor a thinker.
Are you the body?
Nope. This one is very clear on that.
From your responses to date, it seems as if you are seeing that there is no ‘I’ controlling, choosing, doing, hearing, thinking etc. but there is still some confusion, particularly with regards to thoughts. What is getting in the way of understanding?
Well, per our posts interchange… there are some misunderstandings that "I" guess are due to language, ways of expression or alike. Leaving this aside, it is very much so that though some understandings appear… then disappear... the "no-self" … oh! How to put it? The not-I is slippery… or it is like trying to hold water with the hands: in no time no water… back again trying to hold the watter… back again loosing it, and so on. What's in the way? This one joined the Guiding Area to see.
What exactly are you having trouble with?
That is the point Brigitte. What? Should I re-read all the pointings? Do something different? Not do? To the best of "my" perceiving-knowledge-attitude "I" have tried to follow your instructions.
What is missing?
Anxiety arises… wondering… tension… something is wrong… what?
What is clearly seen through DE… seems to desappear when "I" go back to relating to people, to mails, to "to do lists", work, agenda… tension arises, heaviness, fear , separateness, the flow of experience-ing stops, "the all responsible I" in place again… and with it all DE experiencing seems to desappear.


Any suggestions?

Thanks for your patience Brigitte.
Lourdes

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Re: I tried on my own. I am exhausted

Postby aubergine99 » Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:12 pm

Hello Lourdes.

Please be assured you are not giving me any trouble. As your guide, I just need to point you to look into your experience.

The exercise about the sound of the car was to show the indivisibility of experiencing and experienced. Just the same with seeing/seen, tasting/tasted, touching/touched. Do you see that the sound of a car, the sound of voices, the sound of thunder, are all individual unique sound experiences. Even before thought labels the nature of the sound, the raw experience is different in each case. Whether thought labels them or not, doesn’t change the experience in any way. This applies to all experiencing. This is LIFE-ing. Happens with or without thoughts.
Now see how easily this Lourdes is caught in the "I"ing? It seems that no matter how many times DE shows there is no "I"… "I" slips in … just like that!! This is so discouraging!!
It is quite acceptable to use ‘I’ in posts and conversations, so please continue to do so. As long as you see that there is no separate-self there at all doing anything.
Well, per our posts interchange… there are some misunderstandings that "I" guess are due to language, ways of expression or alike. Leaving this aside, it is very much so that though some understandings appear… then disappear... the "no-self" … oh! How to put it? The not-I is slippery… or it is like trying to hold water with the hands: in no time no water… back again trying to hold the water… back again losing it, and so on. What's in the way? This one joined the Guiding Area to see.
You have demonstrated that you have an understanding. ‘The not-I is slippery’ – these are early days, Lourdes. For some people, the feeling of ‘I’ does not disappear. It may be only the belief of the entity that disappears. This understanding deepens in time.
Anxiety arises… wondering… tension… something is wrong… what?
Anxiety, tension ? You also said you felt sadness and anger. Look to see what is behind these thoughts?

The guiding process is nearly at an end as we have covered everything. It may help to re-read the whole thread again. Have you finished reading Gateless Gatecrashers?

When you are done with that, let me know if you are ready for the final questions? Is there anything else you want me to go over again?

Love Brigitte

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Lourdes
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Re: I tried on my own. I am exhausted

Postby Lourdes » Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:10 pm

Hello Brigitte
Anxiety, tension ? You also said you felt sadness and anger. Look to see what is behind these thoughts?
All right. What is behind these thoughts? More thoughts, of course.

Thoughts that without "power" are so entrenched they look like the real thing. Fear of looking and of not looking. Not sure this is what you are pointing at… or if I should share at all… because you ask to look but not to share with you. This thoughts are about the story of Lourdes.

In the same way that a name was given to this "living unit": Lourdes, the blame of not being appropriate, not right to have been born at the time this was born, the message "you should be ashamed for being here", pushed aside physically, pointed at as fawlty, were in the lot. And this has been believed ALWAYS. It appears as thoughts and feelings. And most of the time lived as if separate and identifiable. (Except when doing the exercises or when focusing purposedly in DE)

60 years of living the dream of making this Lourdes "appropriate", the efforts going with it, the judgements, depression, therapy, wanting to help, etc. CLASH frontally with the DE exercises experience-ing that there is only experience, perceiving, awareness. That thoughts come from nowhere, that there is no choosing or thinking I… instead of bringing space, brings sorrow and fog.

and another thought: this is UNFAIR!!!. Wanting to destroy the "responsible one" of this being as it is. Of the dream itself happening.

I am so angry, frustrated… well.. I again… that is how it is felt HERE and NOW.

Sorry, not ready for any final questions. Nor sharing that anything is at any end, no vision of gate or gatecrashing…

Finishing the book almost. Page 200.

Thank you
Lourdes

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Re: I tried on my own. I am exhausted

Postby aubergine99 » Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:31 pm

Hello,
These thoughts are about the story of Lourdes.


All this is the story of Lourdes, like you say. You talk of blame for not being appropriate, not right to have been born, of being ashamed. These thoughts appear to have power because of their identification with Lourdes, but that is not you. Thoughts have no power whatsoever in reality. They are just ideas!

If you watch a movie, you forget that you are looking at a screen. You become totally involved in the story that is being displayed. In the same way, all the thoughts that arise about yourself are just like pictures on a screen. In this way you realize they are just that—thoughts passing by. No matter whether they are about the weather or “me,” there is no difference. Just images on a screen. “Me” is a thought like any other. There never was an entity, person, or thing called “me.” There has only ever been a story. Thoughts about yourself may arise, but this can be seen to be just another thought—a thought about a thought. So what? Another thought comes, and another So what? Thoughts do not mean anything. If a thought is thought to mean something, another thought has just arisen. Can the unreal be a problem? If you know that all thoughts are about the real or the unreal, but are never themselves the real, do they have to be taken so seriously?

Life isn’t personal. Your life isn’t personal. You and your experience are one, not two. There is no “you” living a life. There is life as you experience it, and that is you. It happens with and without the thoughts of “me,” “myself,” and “I.” Life is intimate but not personal. Yourself doesn’t exist except as a thought that refers to nothing.

There is no 'I' to get attached to ideas of suffering in any way. Can you see that?

Sending love
Brigitte

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Lourdes
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Re: I tried on my own. I am exhausted

Postby Lourdes » Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:41 pm

Hello Brigitte
Here Lourdes "this one" again.

You are the guide here, the one at the other side of the gateless gate. I asked for Guidance you showed up.
You have helped other people "cross".
You are being very patient and I appreciate your time and dedication. It is very, very, very generous from your part.

Now:

You already saw and shared with me in a previous post:
Aubergine99 wrote:
From your responses to date, it seems as if you are seeing that there is no ‘I’ controlling, choosing, doing, hearing, thinking etc. but there is still some confusion, particularly with regards to thoughts.
Also in a previous post these were questions coming from this side:
Lourdes wrote:
How to surrender to the Direct Experience?

Can you guide me through this puzzle?
In your last post you say:
Aubergine99 wrote:
In the same way, all the thoughts that arise about yourself are just like pictures on a screen. In this way you realize they are just that—thoughts passing by.
Brigitte in what way?

Yes that thoughts are like pictures in a screen, can be seen, in DE experience mode and sort of "laboratory mode", as when I read your pointing. This happens normally under highly pointed focus and attention.

In what way can this be seen and felt without getting caught in the "I"? me? In normal life?

It does not transfer Brigitte, it just does not. Call "me" stubborn. Looking and seeing happens in parenthesis mode, so to speak.

You point:
Can the unreal be a problem? If you know that all thoughts are about the real or the unreal, but are never themselves the real, do they have to be taken so seriously?
This one here is not choosing to take them so seriously, not choosing to feel trapped in them as if they were the real thing.
There is no 'I' to get attached to ideas of suffering in any way. Can you see that?
No I… but here lots of suffering and feeling cornered. No sense of freedom. Something like: there is no I, so what?

Is there a guiding you can present for this? What am "I" doing – not doing wrong?

Thank you so, so much Brigitte.

Love
Lourdes

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aubergine99
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Re: I tried on my own. I am exhausted

Postby aubergine99 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:39 pm

Hi Lourdes,
How to surrender to the Direct Experience?
Can you guide me through this puzzle?
There is no surrendering required? No effort needed. Just looking.
Aubergine99 wrote:
In the same way, all the thoughts that arise about yourself are just like pictures on a screen. In this way you realize they are just that—thoughts passing by.
Brigitte in what way?
Pictures on a screen, as in a film, do not affect the screen in any way. It is the same with awareness. The unreal thoughts cannot affect the real you.
Yes that thoughts are like pictures in a screen, can be seen, in DE experience mode and sort of "laboratory mode", as when I read your pointing. This happens normally under highly pointed focus and attention.

In what way can this be seen and felt without getting caught in the "I"? me? In normal life?
What is ’normal’ life, Lourdes? Life is what is happening right now. Not your life, just life.
There is no 'I' to get attached to ideas of suffering in any way. Can you see that?
No I… but here lots of suffering and feeling cornered. No sense of freedom. Something like: there is no I, so what?
What do you mean by ‘no sense of freedom and feeling cornered’? Where is the barrier/door to freedom? Does it exist?
Is there a guiding you can present for this? What am "I" doing – not doing wrong?
There is no wrong doing. Just being aware and looking is needed. As a child, did you believe in Santa Claus? Did you write to him asking him to bring you presents? He felt real, didn’t he? When you saw that he did not exist, did you continue to write to him? No because you knew he wasn’t real. Did you need reminding of that? Once you see something doesn’t exist, thoughts about that something stop happening.

Keep looking and noticing what is real.

Love Brigitte


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