Seeking Only TRUTH

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Xain
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Re: Seeking Only TRUTH

Postby Xain » Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:00 am

Something clicked this morning after I read your response the first time - it became clear that looking to the future (or the past, for that matter) to understand the implications of accepting that 'I' can't be found, is pure folly, because it is thought. A completely made up, baseless fabrication. I realize and appreciate that you've been saying this all along, but the truth of that is more evident now. A major crack - thank you!!!
Great!
Yet, in the absence of 'I' there doesn't seem to be anything to examine the thoughts, or anything to examine them with.
Absolutely. Thoughts are examined. No 'I' to do it. It 'just happens' :-)
EVERYTHING 'just happens'. There is no control of any kind. Is this realised?
But what examines, and what determines what is real now, is not clear.
Mind wants an answer. Another thought is demanded. It never will be clear as what is being pointed to is something that cannot be thought of.
Thought can only encompass objects, concepts, things, 'stuff'. What is being pointed to here is not a 'thing'.
We look for a separate 'thing' and none can be found.
It cannot be found by searching for it, as what is searching for it . . . IS IT.

Again, without thought where is the stress? Where is the demand to 'know'?
Jumping in at the end an giving 'I' credit is actually absurd - it's like the raindrop giving itself credit for water, clouds, gravity, etc . . .
That's really beautiful, Gavith.

I walked along a road the other day. I looked at the branches swaying in the breeze.
Then I looked at my legs, swaying from side to side as I walked.
The realisation was that they were both the same.
The branches appeared to sway. They just 'moved'. It just 'happens' - No controller.
The legs appeared 'walking'. They just 'moved'. It just 'happens' - No controller.
'Life happens'. No controller.
Without thought, there's nothing to have conflict, since reality just is, without conflict.
♥ Yes.
Without thought . . . what?
Surrender
As you may realise, no-one to surrender, though.
Just 'peace'. And peace 'just happening' without a controller creating or demanding it ♥

Xain ♥

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Gafith
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Re: Seeking Only TRUTH

Postby Gafith » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:12 pm

EVERYTHING 'just happens'. There is no control of any kind. Is this realised?
It is realised.
As you may realise, no-one to surrender, though.
Just 'peace'. And peace 'just happening' without a controller creating or demanding it
It's interesting - the word "surrender" came from nowhere. It was just suddenly there. And, it arrived with a sense that communicated something along the lines of nothing to resist with. Words can't really convey it. It also had an element of satisfaction, not in the way that an achieved goal would provide satisfaction, but in the way that a goal wouldn't need to be achieved. Content.

Trying to answer this question gives me new appreciation for how challenging this whole process must be for you! And, I have a benefit that you didn't have - I'm trying to communicate with someone who understands beyond words!

Thank you.

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Xain
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Re: Seeking Only TRUTH

Postby Xain » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:33 pm

Words can't really convey it. It also had an element of satisfaction, not in the way that an achieved goal would provide satisfaction, but in the way that a goal wouldn't need to be achieved. Content.
♥ Yes. Exactly.
There is nothing to 'get'. There is no 'goal' other than the realisation that there is 'no goal' :-)
Trying to answer this question gives me new appreciation for how challenging this whole process must be for you! And, I have a benefit that you didn't have - I'm trying to communicate with someone who understands beyond words!
But there is no-one here who is doing anything or has understanding :-)
Just as there is no 'I' here, there is no 'I' there also.
It is ALL just happening :-)

But . . . for our dialogue on the level of thought . . . your kind words are very much appreciated.
Thank you.

You seem to have come through a storm.

There are a further six questions I will ask when you feel ready.
Do you feel that the illusion has been seen through?
Do you have any further questions or comments at this point?

Xain ♥

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Gafith
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Re: Seeking Only TRUTH

Postby Gafith » Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:48 pm

Everytime I try to discern if I'm ready for questions, I realize that I'm using thought to create an 'I' who may or may not be ready. Without using thought, I must be ready, because I don't have any further questions or comments.

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Xain
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Re: Seeking Only TRUTH

Postby Xain » Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:03 pm

Everytime I try to discern if I'm ready for questions, I realize that I'm using thought to create an 'I' who may or may not be ready. Without using thought, I must be ready, because I don't have any further questions or comments.
Yes ♥

It may be found that all questions seem to answer themselves now upon realisation.
If anything comes up which really is an issue though, please mention it.

Here are the first of the three questions.
If there are any issues in answering these, we can examine them and work through them.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference (if any) from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

3) Was there a specific moment, a question, or a point you could mention that pushed you over, made you look? Made the realisation happen?

Xain ♥

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Gafith
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Re: Seeking Only TRUTH

Postby Gafith » Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:27 pm

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No.

2) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference (if any) from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels a lot of different ways. It feels simple. It feels foreign . . . kind of like it would probably feel to drive up for the first time to the new mansion that was purchased with lottery winnings. It feels like a relief - there's no need to waste consciousness/energy making up stories stories constantly about why I did (or didn't do) something, why something happened, what I have to do to make something happen. It's kind of exciting because it opens up possibilities that I discounted before, and never even conceptualized before. It's kinda scary, 'cuz I can't do nothin' 'bout nothin'! 'Cuz there ain't no 'I" . . . :)

3) Was there a specific moment, a question, or a point you could mention that pushed you over, made you look? Made the realisation happen?

There were many small breakthroughs along the way, but they seemed to kind of recede, although they never completely went away. The big coalescing happed when I was trying to respond to the question regard the past and the future, when I was formulating my fallen tree scenario - it suddenly occured to me what you had been saying about it all being thought. I so badly wanted to take the thought that the tree had been standing the day before as a fact, but it was just a thought - there was no way I could prove it with my senses. I KNEW it, but I understood that I was actually wrong. I had to concede :) As I mentioned, that wasn't a new concept, but suddenly I got some perspective on how I was using thought in ways that I still hadn't actually realized, and how that was the (false) foundation for more thoughts.

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Xain
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Re: Seeking Only TRUTH

Postby Xain » Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:39 pm

That's great, Gavith.
Lovely replies. I have no more to add at the moment.

Here are the other three questions:

4) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.
Describe it fully as you understand it now.


5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

6) Do you have anything further to add?

Xain ♥

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Gafith
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Re: Seeking Only TRUTH

Postby Gafith » Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:39 pm

4) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.
Describe it fully as you understand it now.
The illusion of the separate self begins when a thought is believed, and the definition of 'I' starts being built. Beliefs then lead to more thoughts being believed, and this cycle is perpetuated continuously, building and preserving an 'I' that has limit after limit after boundary after boundary, each of which was the result of a thought being believed. This results in a limited, and therefore separate, 'I' that seems to exist. And, this limited 'I' is aware, on some level, that it is limited, and therefore needs to be defended at all costs, so anything that threatens it is rejected through whatever means (by whatever thought) is necessary, while anything that supports the existence of 'I' is pursued and accepted.
5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
There is no 'I' to decide, intend , choose or control events. Things just happen, and then thoughts invent explanations consistent with beliefs, which ultimately are intended to preserve 'I.' I'm not sure if this is quite the kind of example you're looking for, but I've noticed for years that when I wake up in the morning, I don't feel great. This triggers a thought process that makes the discomfort 'real,' by either concluding and projecting that the day is going to be a struggle and therefore something to be dreaded, or I try to feel better by finding someone/something to blame for some perceived problem they caused 'me,' justifying anger towards them in defense of 'me.' The last couple of days, I've used my senses to just feel what I was truly feeling at that exact point in time, and to notice what I wasn't actually feeling, and not using the feeling as a springboard for thoughts or looking for any explanation, label etc. for the feeling. The feeling was there, but the thought response wasn't, and the feeling never developed into anything. It was just a feeling that passed very quickly.
6) Do you have anything further to add?
There doesn't seem to be anything else to say, other than THANK YOU!

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Xain
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Re: Seeking Only TRUTH

Postby Xain » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:13 pm

Thank you, Gavith.
It's kind of exciting because it opens up possibilities that I discounted before, and never even conceptualized before.
Could you elaborate a little on what you mean?

There may be further questions from other guides coming also.

Xain ♥

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Gafith
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Re: Seeking Only TRUTH

Postby Gafith » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:28 pm

Day to day I always expected everything to be pretty much the same as all the days before, because I didn't believe that people could change very quickly, and that everything was almost certain to unfold pretty much the way I expected. But, things just happening completely obviates that limited view. I was aware that natural disasters seemed to just happen, so I was aware of the vast power of the universe, but I never believed it extended beyond planet-related things into personal events. So, if that power is the force driving all personal actions and events, too, anything is possible! And, since I'm not the one making anything happen, what happens can be things that I can't even conceptualize right now.

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Xain
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Re: Seeking Only TRUTH

Postby Xain » Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:08 pm

Our dialogue is at an end.
The guides have no more questions and neither do I.

It has been a pleasure guiding you.
If you are on Facebook, please let me know your Facebook name (via private message) and I can get you added to aftercare groups/further discussion groups/new arrival groups if you wish.

Very best wishes to you
Xain ♥

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Gafith
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Re: Seeking Only TRUTH

Postby Gafith » Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:32 pm

Thank you so much! I really appreciate your wisdom and patience! I will send you my Facebook name shortly.


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