I´d like to see clear picture

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Re: I´d like to see clear picture

Postby Avatar » Thu Nov 28, 2013 3:03 pm

Hi Ilona,
sensory organs sense objects around and thoughts arise. Example: I looks through the window and see snow. Thought:"I should go skiing." appears. This thought produces another thought:"I must prepare my skies." and another thought follows:" I should take them to ski service to be sharpened."

I can only think one though at a time. Thought itself does not fight but when I stay with a thought for some time and connect it with emotional energy than it gets stronger. For example: I wan´t to go to India versus I wan´t to go to Brazil. In the decison phase I feel energy wave inside me as it is connected with this 2 thoughts. And both fight for survival, both want to be stronger,get realised. Thoughts are so powerful because they are the first step of cration.

I sense third chakra as a vortex of energy, rotating energy.

Kind regards,
Gregor

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Re: I´d like to see clear picture

Postby Ilona » Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:11 pm

It may appear that thoughts are fighting, but how do you know they are? What informs you that thoughts are fighting if not a thought. In experience, there is sensation, contraction/ expansion. The choise is already made, it's the conscious mind that says it not. Listen to the body- what feels more exciting- there you go. Resisting is because some beliefs are playing out.

How do you know that thought has power?
It's like if you look at the mirror, see the reflection and give it power. Does that make power real?

Here is an exercise, do it here or on appear, and take a look, what is the power of thought. Does description of what is happening affect what is happening and in what way?
http://markedeternal.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/labels.html

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: I´d like to see clear picture

Postby Avatar » Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:55 am

Hi Ilona,
Exactly! I sense fighting as energy moving inside my body. Feeling that it will tear me apart. Yes yes, oposite belifefs are playing out. And belifes starts as a thought, repeated thoughts...and than it takes power over my behaviour.


You guys from liberationunleashed are funny! Seem that you have a buddist perspective of void. And from this perspective you try to converge everything to the void. Void=emptiness is only one side of the coin. The other side is fullness. We can say that unmanifested reality is the base for manifested reality. Things appear from unmanifested into manifested reality and backwards. Thoughts appear from silence and return to silence. Movement appears from stillness and returns to stillness. Newborn baby is full of fullness, full of God and empty of labels, ego at the same time. Than we begin with identification=labeling and we cover the emptiness. More and more of ego is less and less of God.

Power is energy! If a person does not have enough energy it can not sit,eat,stand up by itself. I´ve seen many old people in old peoples home. They had no power and could do nothing by themself!

Another example of the power of thought is history and how slaves had thought of freedom, they fought a battle for that thought "freedom" and won. Nowdays we are free.

I did the exercise you recommended. With "I": I´m preparing tea, I´m writing this words, I´m thinking, I´m watching, I´m sitting, I´m hungry, I´m bored, I´m sick, I´m sleeping.
Without "I": preparing tea, writing, hearing, thinking, sleeping, watching, smiling, breathing.

I noticed sensation in the middle of my chest with the "I" labelling and neutral attention on the outside without particular focus when describing without "I".

Description of what is happening does not affect what is happening. But it does affect me! It affects my relationship towards life!

Kind reagards,
Gregor

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Re: I´d like to see clear picture

Postby Ilona » Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:05 am

You are funny. You give some theories and philosophies as if it matters in this investigation. It doesn't.

What is me that has relationship to life? Is there a gap between this and life? Is life happening to this me that has a relationship with what is happening? Have a closer look.
Is there a gap between being (verb) and life?

Yes, description affect feeling about described. Is there a feeler? Or it's another trick of language,that creates a subject out of thin air?

Is there a witness?

Sending love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: I´d like to see clear picture

Postby Avatar » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:28 pm

Hi Ilona,
Good theory is a good description of reality.

This gap is fear trying to avoid unvanted things (try to push it away and a gap is created). This fear thinks that it does a good work = protecting me but all it is protecting is fear of life.

My soul is a witness.It has a body and through body can experience life.

Kinestetic body is a feeler.

Love is the answer,
Gregor

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Re: I´d like to see clear picture

Postby Ilona » Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:25 am

Oh dear..
No, good theory is just that, good theory, it's can never describe reality. Reality and theories never touch. Thoughts about thoughts about thoughts do not know anything about reality.

Set all the theories aside, including theory of soul for a minute. Let the not knowing what this is be ok.
How can you see anything if you know so much? Take a look, what do you really know to be 100% true?
Is it body that experiences or body too is experienced?
Is there "my soul" anywhere inside this body? Is there another experience inside experience?
Is there something that make a soul "mine" or it's just a thought passing by?

Look as if you don't know anything.

Write what you find.
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Re: I´d like to see clear picture

Postby Avatar » Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:53 am

Hello Ilona,
I can be sure that I´m alive and have a body.
Body too is experienced.
Soul is in the chest area behind the heart.
There is another experience inside experience in a sense when I´m fully present it is possible to sense life deeper.
There is nothing that make a soul "mine". It's just a thought passing by.

Best regards,
Gregor

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Re: I´d like to see clear picture

Postby Ilona » Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:56 pm

I has the body? Wow. So I is the owner of the body? Are you sure?
What makes this body 'mine'?

How do you know that soul is behind heart?
Look really close, can you find what you call soul or it's just an empty thought?
Truth realized will set you free.
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Re: I´d like to see clear picture

Postby Avatar » Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:43 pm

Hi Ilona,
soul has the body as the vehicle to move around in this earthly world and have earthly experiences.

I feel it. Sense it. Soul is a strong energy of very high vibration.

Kind regards,
Gregor

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Re: I´d like to see clear picture

Postby Ilona » Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:25 pm

is this soul you? are you driving the body? are you commanding breath, heart beat, sleep, digestion, walking, talking, getting old?

if not, then what is driving this body? is there a driver at all?
Truth realized will set you free.
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Re: I´d like to see clear picture

Postby Avatar » Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:30 am

Hi Ilona,
This soul is "ME" = sense of Self=healthy selfawareness. If selfawareness comes from ego=fear that it is not healty. If we do things from ego, we do it with fear guiding us. If we do things from soul, we do it with LOVE.

I´m not commanding breath,heart beat,sleep, digestion,walking...it just happens. I do a simlpe test: I move my hand and obsere what happens. There is very subtle sensation in the brain when I move my hand. It is so subtle I could hardly notice it. How could it be that usually I do not notice it and if I concentrate I could notice it? Itś a matter of consiousness. If I put consciouss attention to it I can be aware of it. We develop our consciousness through experiences. Thatś why we are here on Earth.

I do another test. If i put consciouss attention in the heart this sense of selfawareness (as a result(=different vibration) of connection with the body) comes and disolves if I go in the 7th Chakra above my head. It immediatly disolves in the ocean of consciousness around my body. Looks like a funny play. Lila amrit. Divine play.

Have a nice day,
Gregor

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Re: I´d like to see clear picture

Postby Ilona » Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:11 am

Looks like you are dividing what is happening into - this comes form love and that comes from ego.
Is there ego? Or ego is a label on something unwanted that shows up?

Love is healthy and what is not healthy is not love? Take a look- fear is love in disguise. It's only trying to protect, to help, to serve. Can you see that?

What is this fear protecting? Can you pinpoint that one belief that says, this is what needs to be safe?
Truth realized will set you free.
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Re: I´d like to see clear picture

Postby Avatar » Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:44 am

Hi Ilona,
you are right! I see this is light and I accept it, this is darkness, I reject it. I haven´t noticed that before but now that you mentioned it, I see it clear. All my life I´ve been trying to get away from darkness and escape into light. But instead of light all around me, somehow this darkness is always following me. And I´m tired of this game.

I´ve always been fearfull. Yes,yes fear is trying to protect this tiny, little, helpless creature (me) from outside world. World is not safe place to be (my belief) causes that I don´t won´t to be here on Earth, always trying to escape.

Best regards,
Gregor

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Re: I´d like to see clear picture

Postby Ilona » Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:28 pm

light- dark, in- out, day- night, summer- winter-- it's a natural cycle. there is nothing that needs to be changed about that. ying-yang cycle continues, you like it or not.

there is one thing that changes- the reaction to this cycle. why is good good and bad bad? what decides what is wanted and unwanted? when resistance comes up, does it mean it is bad? can resistance be accepted as a natural occurrence, equally valid and welcome?
Yes,yes fear is trying to protect this tiny, little, helpless creature (me) from outside world.
what if there is no me at all and no outside world, does that me still need to be protected? what if all is one movement of totality, without any borders and limitations? have a look, are there borders? is there a container that holds this piece of life in one spot?

close your eyes and find the line between me and outside. is there a line between here and there? how about with eyes open?

sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: I´d like to see clear picture

Postby Avatar » Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:44 am

Hi Ilona,
Yeah resistance is natural occurence. Itś not bad. It protects us.

On some level we are animals and have animal instinct of what is healthy (eatable food) for us and what is not. Certain energy is healthy (love) and others are not (fear).In love we blossom, in fear we get sick. Conscience knows what is good and what is bad.

"what if there is no me at all and no outside world, does that me still need to be protected? "
No need for protection.

"is there a container that holds this piece of life in one spot?" The container is our body and senses(sight, touch) make it real. If I close my eyes body disappears and borders disappears. No line between here and there. I open my eyes and borders-body reappears.

Kind regards,
Gregor


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