Ready

This is a read-only part of the forum. All threads where seeing happens are stored here and come from this forum, the Facebook guiding area and various LU blogs. The complete list, sorted by guide, contains all links. The archives include threads of those that came to LU already seeing as well.
User avatar
Anki
Posts: 525
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:24 am
Location: Maui, UTC -10 Hours

Re: Ready

Postby Anki » Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:21 am

hi Vince... i'll look to see if there was a 'me' before this moment...
Unleash yourself. Look, and look again. No self to unleash.

User avatar
Anki
Posts: 525
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:24 am
Location: Maui, UTC -10 Hours

Re: Ready

Postby Anki » Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:30 am

well, if there WAS a me, there is no trace of it now. there are memories of sensations, thoughts, words, etc., but no me doing/being them. interesting indeed.

so... maybe that's pre-designed too... this inability to find a me in the past... then again, i am beginning to genuinely suspect that there may be no me, no i. maybe my belief in all the reasons why i cannot find the i is crumbling...
Unleash yourself. Look, and look again. No self to unleash.

User avatar
vinceschubert
Posts: 3557
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Ready

Postby vinceschubert » Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:44 am

if there WAS a me, there is no trace of it now
If there was a me and now there is not, of what was that me constructed ?

User avatar
Anki
Posts: 525
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:24 am
Location: Maui, UTC -10 Hours

Re: Ready

Postby Anki » Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:35 am

If there WAS a me... well.... i remember having a me experientally when those past things happened, but in looking at them now i certainly cannot find it. of what was it constructed? .... hmmm.... words, thoughts, behaviors, a body... that's all there was. so the 'me' that i thought was there must NOT have been there.

bedtime here. thanks Vince
Unleash yourself. Look, and look again. No self to unleash.

User avatar
vinceschubert
Posts: 3557
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Ready

Postby vinceschubert » Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:52 am

Anki, of what is the past constructed ?, The future ?
and of what is memory constructed ?

Sleep well, use the twilight when drifting into sleep and when you first wake to observe what thoughts are doing.

User avatar
Anki
Posts: 525
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:24 am
Location: Maui, UTC -10 Hours

Re: Ready

Postby Anki » Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:59 pm

well, how nice for once i have an answer to your question without pondering it! hahaha! the past and the future and memories are all the same thing. they are nothing. they are constructs. even my previous idea is now seen as incorrect.. the 'me' that i could not find in the past, that i then decided had lived the past only as a body, words, thoughts, deeds: that can't be right because all of that is my MEMORY of the past and it is a no-thing, that memory.

ok, i am thinking as typing here... if the 'me' of my past was not findable, only body, thoughts words deeds, and those are NOT REAL... then past is not real, nor is future. future is the same thing as past, some 'stuff' that will happen and appear to 'be', then instantly become the not real past. the only thing that is real is this very moment.. now this one... now this one. each moment is the reality of life, then there is the next.

of what are these no-things, past and future and memory, constructed? of nothing! they are completely not real so can have no construct, no stuff that is them. the present moment, however, is now seen to be reality, and it opens out like a portal into... everything.

just now i 'heard' a thought say something, and i asked 'who said that?' and there was no one, the thought simply was present and was noticed. so, hmmm... who noticed it? no one, i see that. but it WAS noticed... OK... i'm going to look at the idea that the experienced and the experience are one and the same....

well, right away i can see that they seem linked somehow.. not separable.... as soon as the experienced (hearing the words in this case) appeared, experience (OF the words) concurrently occurred. OK... what does this indicate?

an experienced 'something' and the experience OF that something are not 2 things, they are 1 thing. i am not sure why this is a good thing to realize but it would seem to be. oh, wait... what about the 'experiencer'??? hmmmm, that is the 'i', the 'me', that i can't seem to find... let me look at this a moment...

i simply cannot find the 'i', Vince... the experiencer seems to be intertwined within the other to in a way that makes it inseparable also... yet... i am getting an idea that the 3 things together somehow are ... it... they are a one-thing that is how i am and be.

i am pretty sure now that i will not find an 'i'. it would seem silly to keep on looking for it, yet i don't know what else might push me through the gate. perhaps a continued can't find, can't find. beats me.
Unleash yourself. Look, and look again. No self to unleash.

User avatar
vinceschubert
Posts: 3557
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Ready

Postby vinceschubert » Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:30 pm

push me through the gate
Anki, what do you imagine the experience of going through the gate will be ?

User avatar
Anki
Posts: 525
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:24 am
Location: Maui, UTC -10 Hours

Re: Ready

Postby Anki » Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:54 am

Vince... I am sure of one thing only about going through the gate: I will EXPERIENCE it.. NOT think it.

I have had many experiences that are like that. I know what they 'feel' like. I imagine that without something like this I will doubt completely that I went through.

As to any other expectations... hmmm.... i imagine a sense of space would be there. i imagine that i will feel some wonder, perhaps awe, that i 'made it'. i imagine that those feelings will pass. i imagine that i will feel significantly more peace and joy. i imagine that being on the other side of the gate will decrease dramatically, perhaps even end, my suffering.

One last thing... i imagine that being on the other side will be a state of not clinging to my ideas about myself and others, and our world.

I guess that's it.
Unleash yourself. Look, and look again. No self to unleash.

User avatar
vinceschubert
Posts: 3557
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Ready

Postby vinceschubert » Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:53 am

Anki, describe the suffering you mention.

User avatar
Anki
Posts: 525
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:24 am
Location: Maui, UTC -10 Hours

Re: Ready

Postby Anki » Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:15 am

ahhh, THAT... it is what I feel when I believe my thoughts, the feelings that are associated with the things I think. If I think, for example, 'I wish Jane would be nicer to me' or 'My body is too fat' then I have feelings that spontaneously arise from the thoughts and I do not like those feelings. If I focus on the feelings too long I suffer.

Suffering happens when I look at some of the past. Things there were what they were, to be sure... yet some of it is still felt as pain, some suffering, too.

I am imagining, no way for me to know for sure yet, that being of the 'no-self' experience will ease this. Maybe eliminate it. That would be great.
Unleash yourself. Look, and look again. No self to unleash.

User avatar
vinceschubert
Posts: 3557
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Ready

Postby vinceschubert » Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:15 am

Anki, What is the difference between Pain and Suffering ?













what I feel when I believe my thoughts
feelings that spontaneously arise from the thoughts
felt as pain, some suffering, too.
the past and the future and memories are all the same thing. they are nothing. they are constructs
when those past things happened, but in looking at them now i certainly cannot find it. of what was it constructed? .... hmmm.... words, thoughts
i am pretty sure now that i will not find an 'i'.
If I think, for example,...
Maybe eliminate it.
The pain won't be eliminated but the suffering will be transformed.
i imagine that being on the other side will be a state of not clinging to my ideas about myself
Anki, tell me how you cling to ideas that you own, ideas about a self that can't be found.

User avatar
Anki
Posts: 525
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:24 am
Location: Maui, UTC -10 Hours

Re: Ready

Postby Anki » Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:31 am

Vince, for me pain is what just comes up around certain thoughts or circumstances. Suffering is what happens when I focus on pain, or painful thoughts or circumstances. I make things bigger and less OK with that focus. Not always does this happen, but enough to be not fun.

As to how I cling to ideas that I own, ideas of a self that can't be found, hmmm... I cling to them through repeating them to myself, and assuming they are true, thusly they are RIGHT. That seems important, rightness. Clinging to this idea of a self that cannot be found.. well....

It had not occurred to me until just this moment that I am clinging to this unfindable self... yet I must be. Seems I cannot find it cuz it does not exist... that's the only reason I can think of that seems to hold water about it's unfindability. Yet.. hahaha!.. ya, YET... just because it does not exist is clearly not enough of a reason for me to stop THINKING that it exists. hahah! good one.

OK.. how am I actually clinging to this self that does not exist? the how is: I keep looking for it! oh hahahaha! I keep looking for something that I already know is not there! Well, well, well.. smart me, eh?

So instead of continuing on with this looking for it, what would be a good thing?
Unleash yourself. Look, and look again. No self to unleash.

User avatar
vinceschubert
Posts: 3557
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Ready

Postby vinceschubert » Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:54 pm

pain is what just comes up around certain thoughts
This is suffering.
Pain is when you hurt yourself physically.
So changing the level of suffering by thinking about it is just playing with the cause.
I cling to them through repeating them to myself
Absolutely, this is how the hallucination of a self is maintained. It's the story of Lisa.
Is there a you, at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?

User avatar
Anki
Posts: 525
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:24 am
Location: Maui, UTC -10 Hours

Re: Ready

Postby Anki » Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:56 am

Ahhh.... ya, OK... I get that about the pain. I see it... it's my thoughts that cause the pain which is really the suffering itself. Yes. Thoughts are the cause originally. Pain is when I hurt my body, yes. Suffering doesn't have to happen! It does when I believe or even just over-notice my thoughts. OK.. great to see this.

The hallucination of self, you say, maintained by repeating my ideas of self, over and over again. OK. I can understand that. The story of Lisa, repeated endlessly. I tell myself my story's old news and latest developments and keep the myth 'alive', the myth of me.

Is there a me at all, anywhere, in any shape or form? Vince Vince Vince... I have to say 'No', because I see there is not, but my seeing is NOT experiential, it's... the result of inquiry, the lack of finding a me, which somehow still leaves the door open to finding one some day.

I CAN say, however, that since I have begun this dialogue with you there have been changes.. I do not give as much attention to my thoughts and feelings as I did. I allow them to pass on through without being 'grabbed'. These are thoughts to which I would have given significant attention until recently. The last few days have been much lighter and less with suffering than they could have been before, definitely.

Is this 'progress'? Or is progress a way to fool myself? It seems I am either stuck or simply too... something. Intellectualized? Afraid? I just don't know.

About all I can come up with at this moment is: maybe I don't genuinely see that there is no me, no I. Perhaps that, too, is a way to fool myself.
Unleash yourself. Look, and look again. No self to unleash.

User avatar
vinceschubert
Posts: 3557
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Ready

Postby vinceschubert » Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:22 am

Is this 'progress'?
Progress implies an end goal. The answer to that is NO.
But this is not something we progress towards.
Experiencing differently definitely occurs.
When you look in a mirror, do you gradually see an image ?
Time to ask yourself the question about expectations again.
fool myself
Where is the 'self' that might be fooled.


Return to “ARCHIVES”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests