I'm Looking for a Guide

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Hurt
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:23 am

Re: I'm Looking for a Guide

Postby Hurt » Fri Aug 16, 2013 5:47 am

Is the body the perceiver, or is the body perceived?
Certain parts of the body working properly (the sensory organs, the brain) are necessary for perception to occur, and the interaction of those structures with the rest of the environment determines the content of the perception; I find it impossible to conceptualize "sight" without the existence of an eyeball interacting with light. That said, it would be incorrect to say that there is someone "perceiving sight". Seeing is happening wherever and whenever the material conditions are ripe for it's occurence. The body does not "do" perceiving in the sense of an active subject with will and intent acting out this process on an object; it is not some sort of active power that the body or mind holds in reserve when there is no object available to direct perception towards.
In direct experience is there a sense of inside/outside?
No. What is still there is the knowledge that there are, and will be (until I die) certain constants in experience. My body will (hopefully!) remain relatively similar in appearance; certain patterns and styles of thought may continue for decades; the memories I have will continue to be seen for just as long. What is not there now is the sense that the momentary collection of these things needed someone to claim ownership of them, and then classify experience as either threatening (outside) or safe (inside) for the self-image that has been built up. That process did nothing but help protect the illusion that there ever was an inside or outside to begin with.

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Ewoud
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:17 pm

Re: I'm Looking for a Guide

Postby Ewoud » Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:28 pm

Okay, many thanks again. Wonderful to read. I am going to be thorough with you.
My body will (hopefully!) remain relatively similar in appearance;


If the body isn't 'yours' why and what is this 'hope?

Look in a mirror for me and describe in direct experience what is seen? Then look at a photo of you as a child. What comes up? Are they 'you?

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Hurt
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:23 am

Re: I'm Looking for a Guide

Postby Hurt » Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:22 am

If the body isn't 'yours' why and what is this 'hope?
Sorry, I poorly conveyed that. That was just a sort of half-joke I threw in after the implied assumption that I wouldn't have any serious bodily problems in the near future.
Look in a mirror for me and describe in direct experience what is seen?
The body and it's surroundings are seen, and that is all that is present in direct experience in the most literal sense of the word "seen". Thoughts are also "seen", and many immediately appear and comment on the body. Some say something along the lines of the body being an important investment that has been built up over the years. Others say "this is all you really have". I let these thoughts run their course and settle down while I continued looking, to see if anything else was noticeably present or absent. One such thing was a sense of inside or outside; the body and the environment present in the mirror were all clearly one interacting system, with no inside/outside separation around the body.
Then look at a photo of you as a child. What comes up?
The feeling that this is a completely different person that I am looking at. We have(had, in his case) different personalities, preferences, memories, physical appearance, etc. There are many other people that I have more in common with than child-me. I expected to sense some sort of continuity with my younger self, like that person was one stage in the linear progression called "Bruce's life." Strangely enough, I also felt a brief twinge of mild embarrassment at the recollection of a childhood memory I associated with the picture. I'm not sure what to make of that lack of identification coupled with a memory being experienced as having happened to Me.
Are they 'you?
No. They were me in the same sense that the experiences participated in by this body and mind are me now; that is, only in a conventional and social sense. I say that they are not me because a past person (much less a past 'I') cannot be pointed to in present experience. We can have memories made up of words and images that reference these past selves, but they are stories; a past (or future) me has no more fundamental reality than Santa Claus.

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Ewoud
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:17 pm

Re: I'm Looking for a Guide

Postby Ewoud » Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:57 am

Wonderful Bruce!

I am delighted with this conversation. For me (and some other guides) it seems that you have a clear seeing of no self. Which in fact was already their so congratulations with nothing :). It was a pleasure to be guiding you, but also here you did all the work, so the honours go the the you that doesn't exist.

I would like to point out that there are several Facebook groups that you might find interesting. Here we talk about the illusion and what it is like to experience no self.

Via this link there is also a document which might come on useful.

http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=6&t=696

If you give me your facebook name, maybe you want to send it in a personal message, I will ask the admin to add you to the group (if you'd like that).

Once again, it was a pleasure to work with you.

All the best,

Ewoud


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