Requesting Guidance Please

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goneforgood
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Re: Requesting Guidance Please

Postby goneforgood » Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:00 am

Hi Matt,
Thankyou. I wrote a lengthy reply this morning on this, and lost it because of ongoing internet problems in this area. Didn't copy and paste as previously. Lesson learned! Even this small post I have been trying to send all afternoon, to no avail.
Will go offline and write notes in text format and bring them back here, hoping to be able to post.
Great enquiry going on!!
Thanks and warm appreciation.
Robin

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goneforgood
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Re: Requesting Guidance Please

Postby goneforgood » Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:06 am

Dearest Matt,
Just logging on to find that the post I sent last night (the one directly below) has not arrived on the board. This is maddening!!
Here it is again, followed by this morning's report.
Hoping and praying.......
Robin

Hi Matt,
Thankyou. I wrote a lengthy reply this morning on this, and lost it because of ongoing internet problems in this area. Didn't copy and paste as previously. Lesson learned! Even this small post I have been trying to send all afternoon, to no avail.
Will go offline and write notes in text format and bring them back here, hoping to be able to post.
Great enquiry going on!!
Thanks and warm appreciation.
Robin
...............................................................

11.02am (I'm giving the time in case of delays in your receipt of these posts due to internet failures.)

Hi Matt,

This (regional) internet problem is really interfering with my feeling of connection and flow with you, and I'm having trouble staying focused. I feel like giving up, however it may be that such matters are all par for the course, so I will continue on in the hope you will receive this post at least some time within the next 24 hours. Thankyou for your patience.

I know there are questions prior to the one I'm going to address here this morning. The long post that I "lost" yesterday was in answer to one of the earlier questions, and I just feel too exhausted to go back there when there is more recent material to report.

Before heading to a specific question, my current state is one of confusion and loss of hope that I will ever "get this". I don't know where to go with it or how to pick up the thread. What is it we're doing here again? Fuzzy thinking, exhausted body, tears coming and going......it feels very much as if it's happening to "me", that it's "my" fault, and stupid thoughts that I have somehow manifested the internet breakdown on purpose so that I don't have to LOOK. It all feels very complicated and too hard. It's PERSONAL.

What is experienced in relationship with others, when belief in a separate "I" is seen through?

What is experienced in relationship with others with an unquestioned belief in a separate "I"?

Last night I had a friend come for dinner. I found it hard to distinguish the difference between "I" and no "I". I was simply there, listening, speaking, laughing, eating.....feeling very relaxed and at ease....no sense of separation, just a natural easy flow. Occasionally the thought "I should be doing the "no-I" thing" would arise, but I couldn't find any way to change my perception while still listening to my guest. It felt there was no space within which to enquire into this.
After my guest left, I felt completely exhausted and drained (a familiar experience with this person).

Perhaps I need to start all over again. Have I lost my way? After sending this, I'll go and read perhaps Ilona's blog again, and Delma's....the one that "did it" for me, and the GG book.

Cheers for now, Matt. Sorry to be such a drag this morning.
Hope your day is shining more brightly!
Robin

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Matt
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Re: Requesting Guidance Please

Postby Matt » Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:06 am

Dear Robin,
Ah, frustration visits, trying-to-get-it-right visits, thoughts-of-losing-my-way visit, ideas-of-getting-it-back visit....
Does any of this require an 'I'? Do you find an 'I' that these visitors stick to, or bounce off of?
The knowledge has already awakened, 'you' already know! Too late.
Maybe the mind wants to squeeze out of it. But no matter what pops up in the mind, nothing can make it refer to a separate 'I'. Can you deny it? Can you make this happen, can you 'do' this? Can you manufacture it or fail to manufacture it? It already is the case, and you already saw this.
You're free to enjoy and relax with this stuff. If questions don't help, feel free to take a break and let insight bubble up on its own. If you like pushing and fretting, no problem! How could it be a problem? There's nothing to stick to; "problem" comes and goes. The issue is just naturally settling into certainty, so you can confirm your own case without hesitation.
Have you seen Ilona's helpful writing exercise? http://markedeternal.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/labels.html
All the best,

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Matt
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Re: Requesting Guidance Please

Postby Matt » Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:09 am

I mean, the recognition is just naturally settling into certainty. Ups and downs are part of this.
Best,

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goneforgood
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Re: Requesting Guidance Please

Postby goneforgood » Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:42 am

4 July 2.11pm

That's the perfect answer, dear Matt! Thankyou.

I went into town earlier ("town" here is a small country one) and did some shopping & errands. On the drive in, I kept moving between feeling disconnected, then connected again (how could I NOT be connected - ever?). Ambition and striving have disappeared, and in their wake a simple humility. It's so good to rest in that. It doesn't matter if I don't save the world. It's alright. Mingling with the other shoppers I felt gentle and warm, just another human being (nothing special about me), and somehow MORE connected with them. We are all the same. I see that. (tears here) I hope this very-ordinariness hangs around because I very much like it.
Yes I might take a small rest from the questions, at least for today.

No, there is no "I" that any of the frustrations and worrying stick to. And yes, I HAVE already seen it, and I can not ever not see it now, because it just IS, and everything is contained in that. So interesting that you should say these things, because even in my despair this morning I was thinking, "but I already KNOW" "I've SEEN"....and not only in this latest instance, but also in those handful of other extraordinary instances (that we have all had) in which the veil slips away and we see through to the truth of who we really are, and not only see, but feel it, stand in it, experience it, and lose our small "I-ness" in the grand ocean of Oneness. So, even though our every waking moment is not of this intensity, we know. We just know. And so it's all alright.

Yes, I did Ilona's writing exercise the other day. Thankyou for reminding me of it. It's worth sharing.

Love to you Matt, and thanks for your gentle guidance to here. For the remainder of the day, no big questions. Just settling into what I know.

Robin

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Matt
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Re: Requesting Guidance Please

Postby Matt » Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:18 pm

Very sweet post, thank you so much.
When you've settled and have some time, you could play with these:

1) Is there a separate, inherently existing 'me', at all, anywhere, independent of the functional label, 'I'?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of an independently existing self actually is, when it begins to appear in life, and how it works.

3) How does it feel to see this absence?

4) How would you describe this illusion and this seeing to somebody who has never heard about it?

5) What was the event or trigger that allowed you to look and discover this for yourself?

Much love,
Matt

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goneforgood
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Re: Requesting Guidance Please

Postby goneforgood » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:57 pm

July 6th 2013

Hello Matt,

Thankyou for your patience. All is well here, and resting a while has been most enjoyable. In that time, I have seen that no matter what moods and states pass by, the truth, once seen, cannot be lost. What a marvellous thing, eh?

Well, I'm going to head on straight into these questions and let's see what comes of it.

1) Is there a separate, inherently existing 'me', at all, anywhere, independent of the functional label, 'I'?

No, there's not.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of an independently existing self actually is, when it begins to appear in life, and how it works.

It is a construct in language that, given repeated use, develops an imagined form or identity in the mind. An idea or thought-form only. It gives the impression or creates the illusion that each human form contains within it, somewhere, a distinct and separate identity, exclusive of any other's identity or self. The idea of "self" or "I" contains the concept of ownership: personal qualities and characteristics "belong" to a "self", as do thoughts, ideas, emotions, feelings. This extends to the material world too, where objects are seen as "mine", belonging exclusively to a "self" that is separate from all other "selves".

This illusion is imposed in early childhood through the use of language. A child is taught that there exists an "I", "me" and "mine" for every person. There is "me" and there is "you". All behaviours, talents and attributes of the child are, through language, attached to this illusionary "I". Over time, through repeated use, the child comes to believe that he or she is in fact this "I", and is separated from all the other "I's". Everything that the child does or sees or feel or thinks is packaged into this imaginary "I" and described as qualities of that "I" that the child owns. Over a lifetime of using this language form, a human being believes it to be a fact that they are a distinct and separate entity living and moving in a world of other separated entities. This illusory separation of form extends to include all other forms in the physical world, such as being separate from and independent of nature.

3) How does it feel to see this absence?

There is a seamlessness to existence now - an awareness that this body is part of the very fabric of life. There feels to be no distance between "me" and any other. I can feel that life flows through me rather than bumps up against me, jostling for space. There feels to be no outline to me. In relation with others, I feel much much softer, and equal with them. We are all the weft and warp of the same one fabric. I notice this even with my pets. The "who" that looks out of their eyes is the same "who" that looks out of "mine". Everything seems to have lost its sharp edges. Nothing begins and ends. It all feels to be one continuous flow. The idea of "I" is like a faint vapour only. It is empty, a mere hint of an idea.

As I mentioned in a previous post, for much of my life I have been searching for that authentic unique essence of "Robin" that I can then express confidently to the world. I was searching for something with a clear label, a distinct outline, imagining it would feel solid somehow, and that I would have no doubt that it was "mine" and truly "me". Now, none of that has any substance to it at all. Even the name "Robin" is like a tiny scrap of a tag flapping in the breeze, just there in case I need it for practical purposes. There is nothing I have to prove or live up to. Nothing at all. :)

4) How would you describe this illusion and this seeing to somebody who has never heard about it?

This depends on the individual, the prevailing conversation, and their listening. Last night I had a friend over, and described it to her from the angle of a newborn child who is then "imprinted" with the concept of "I" as a label to identify an illusory separate self. Today, visiting my neighbour, there was opportunity to speak of our ability to watch all our thoughts come and go without attaching to any of them, and we agreed that they indeed "come from nowhere", and then disappear.

Hypothetically, I'm not sure how I would describe it yet. I need to sit with it further myself and discover the language that best fits my experience and most clearly conveys that so that others may be led to see.

5) What was the event or trigger that allowed you to look and discover this for yourself?

It was when I was reading a post on Delma's blog, in which she was describing her own moment of seeing. The words "JUST. LOOK." did it. I JUST. LOOKED., and suddenly something cleared from my vision, as though a mist had lifted, and any distance between me and the physical world somehow vanished. I felt crystal clear, with no sense of "me" at all. "I" disappeared completely.

Wonderful, Matt. I'll send this on to you....hoping the internet will co-operate.
Trust you are well and thriving.

Love, Robin

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Matt
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Re: Requesting Guidance Please

Postby Matt » Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:33 am

Thanks so much, Robin for the clarity. I invited our team of guides to inspect this thread, and I assume they'll want to confirm this as a "gatecrash". Is there any doubt at all, even subtle or suppressed, that would like its voice to be heard? All voices are welcome.
Much love,
M

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goneforgood
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Re: Requesting Guidance Please

Postby goneforgood » Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:53 pm

7th July 2013

Hi again dear Matt,

In reference to something I said in my past post, which I want to correct.....Life does not flow through "me". There is no separate "me" at all. Life IS, expressing as this body and awareness.

You asked, in one of your previous posts about what occurs when effort visits, and today I had the opportunity to see. It's the pits of winter here (Australia) right now, and an outdoor job fixing one of the sheep fences had to be done. Normally I do a bit of grumbling and cussing when this work comes up. (I'm not a farmer - just a city girl gone bush on a small acreage.) Fencing wire can be a bitch to handle. It does what IT wants, not what you want, and springs around, jumps out of position, jabs and pinches your fingers, and is stubbornly unco-operative. So, for me, fencing work takes effort. But today, despite my freezing, pinched and punctured fingers, the drill not achieving what was needed, my alternative tooling breaking, and a stream of other frustrations......it just all went ahead effortlessly. I don't think I swore once! Yet, I remember on other, similar occasions actually CRYING with self-pity (sook! lol).

As far as doubt goes......I look for it and see none. No matter what arises in awareness, it belongs there in its own right as part of existence, and when it leaves, it leaves. There is no me to grasp onto anything, or for anything to stick to.

What a gift it is to see this! At the beginning of May, I made a conscious decision to drop EVERYTHING that I "knew", or could name or label (a la advaita), no matter what, to find out what remained. Every day throughout May I did this in an hour-long meditation. It was gloriously freeing as I watched my self-image, my expectations, beliefs, ideas, hopes, and all that I had clutched to myself as being vital to "who I was", just drop away. All I wanted was the truth: what remains when I disappear? Each day I took a new photo of myself for my facebook profile pic, knowing that the mask was dissolving. And then exactly 2 months later, I stand at The Gateless Gate, and you, dear Matt come forward to take my hand as I seek to put an end to this "I" once and for all. And it is done. Yet "I" had no hand in it. "I" was never even there. This feels like just the beginning, now. I feel such gratitude and love.

There is the question now: Who, then is now looking, seeing, asking the questions etc.? That's my next investigation.

I am also enquiring into how to most effectively use language to describe this seeing to others. This will take some time and is not to be rushed. Best to speak it with accuracy and insight - not just plunge into a shabby half-baked version. It's that important.

I look forward to any questions that you and the team may feel still need answering.

Much Love to You Matt.

Robin

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Matt
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Re: Requesting Guidance Please

Postby Matt » Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:15 pm

Dear Robin,

We have a unanimous confirmation, and I'm grateful to have the opportunity to dialogue with you!
Most people consider this Gate as the beginning of something new, not necessarily the end of life's journey.
Therefore, there are "aftercare" Facebook groups available to you, as well as groups where people train in guiding others. Some of these groups are places where people often bring their more 'philosophical' questions, such as "Who is looking, seeing," etc. Obviously, a person with advaita training will answer "who" questions one way, and someone who has received buddhist teachings will answer another way, and others with a monotheistic framework in yet another way, etc. (It's interesting that the 'answer' is dependent on contexts, no? To me, that shows there is no absolute answer.) So, there's a group where we contextualize our LU experience in terms of buddhist and western teachings of an empty/interdependent/conventional 'who' (my favorite), and other groups where people contextualize their LU experience in terms of an advaitic awareness, oneness, essential Who, etc. It's up to you! I'll provide some links soon.

Congratulations and welcome, and good luck with your sheep fences!
M

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Matt
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Re: Requesting Guidance Please

Postby Matt » Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:52 pm

Okay, here's a list of groups and resources: http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=6&t=696
Let me know if you have any questions or needs.
If you want to join one of those groups, tell me your Facebook name, and I'll friend you so I can add you.
Best wishes,
M

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goneforgood
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Re: Requesting Guidance Please

Postby goneforgood » Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:52 am

8th July 2013

Good Morning Matt,

Thankyou for the confirmation. And thankyou for the link...but it won't let me in ("You are not authorized to read this forum"). Please authorize me. :)

I'm feeling very empty this morning, with a sense that I've arrived in a new land: sitting (having landed) on soft warm sand, looking around, seeing no-one in sight, but high cliffs all around, and the sea before me. Golly! It's a bit Alice in Wonderland!!...or Falling down the Rabbit Hole!

Look forward to being able to see what groups are available. My facebook name is Robin Be.

Love, Robin

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Matt
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Re: Requesting Guidance Please

Postby Matt » Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:16 am

Okay, someone will change your name from green to blue, maybe that's how the authorization works.
I'll friend you soon on FB.
Looking forward to possible future discussions,
Love,
M

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Matt
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Re: Requesting Guidance Please

Postby Matt » Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:19 am


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goneforgood
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Re: Requesting Guidance Please

Postby goneforgood » Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:40 am



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