Looking for a guide

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Patrick
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby Patrick » Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:37 pm

Thanks for the honesty. Looking with Total Honesty is the key to the gateless gate.
The mind prefers his stories rather than looking honestly to what is real.

What do you think you will find that you may be disappointed?
How do you know what can’t be known by the mind?

Look at this self protective fear mechanism.
Is there a bodily sensation present?

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bluejohns
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby bluejohns » Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:28 pm

The more I think on it, the more I see there are some expectations, for example 'this will fix everything', 'suddenly I will know what to do (in life)'. But on the other hand, recently I have been adopting the practice of 'allowing' life to happen, and trusting that life knows what is best, so actively relaxing into that. Choosing to allow whatever comes up to be there (thoughts, emotions, sensations etc).

So, the disappointment relates to the fear of the expectations not be fulfilled. Although as we speak the fear seems to be less of an issue... a sense of Trust in the bigger picture is present. This trust is not in the mind primarily. It seems to eminate from a deeper place. A sense, an intuition, a conviction.

With regards to a bodily sensation, the answer is/was yes. I have done a lot of 'body' work of the last few years - letting a sensation be there and then see to what thought it may relate within the mind, and then letting that be there, letting what is not true dissolve upon being seen.

So yes, the knowing that is not of the mind, or at least I have not perceived it to be. It is not related to conscious thoughts. It is what I would call a deeper knowing. The same knowing that knows that life Is.

I have been looking further into my assumptions of 'I', and what exactly this is. Intellectually I can attest to and understand that it is like a wrapper or a container that houses all the thoughts, emotions, sensations, body, senses that comprise what I call John. I do see intellectually that there not something separate called 'I'. But at present it is still a habit that I have to relate to all of that as 'me'. So I am beginning to see that it is a story that I have learned and in that respect can see how I could potentially see through it and not believe it anymore.

The question is, if that is not true, what is true? Or perhaps that is not the question. Once you see a story is not true you don't replace it. It just goes away. So I can understand this as a process. I'm keen to experience it, or see it happen in the life of John, or whatever we want to say.

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Patrick
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby Patrick » Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:49 pm

Do you see the difference between
the character , the player named John with his likes and dislikes, preferences, talents, abilities and inabilities. This is how life expresses life.
and
the personality, selfimage, sense of self, identity build over the years, pushed by the society to change what they dislike, to conform for to be appreciated, … . This is not real. This is the illusion of the I. The story to see through.

Do you thrust this character named John as an expression of life?
Do you thrust life as it is?

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bluejohns
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby bluejohns » Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:08 pm

I want to trust, but the fact that we are here having this discussion gives me the impression me I don't completely.

I see the character. I trust that the journey of the character will go wherever it will and I'm fine with that.

But I do not see the illusion of the I. I am still identified with a sense of self and an identity.

Do I trust life as it is? I would have to say sometimes yes, sometimes no. If you were to hold a gun to my head I would say yes, at my most core level, I do trust that everything is happening as it should.

Actually as I reflect on this, I see that I trust that it 'will work out' as opposed to trusting life 'as it is'.

But I still have a deep sense somewhere deep down that everything is ok.

I don't like where my 'story' is and I'm very identified with the not liking and general dissatisfaction. If I can see that the displeasure / frustration at where my story is and where I am at is all part of the illusion that will help.

The self image, I am identified with currently.

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bluejohns
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby bluejohns » Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:35 pm

I'm having some thoughts that I'd like to share. Firstly, I realised that John is a thought, and a thought can't look as we are looking here, for the truth. Also when I think 'I am John', it has a different texture. I'm not resisting it anymore. I know that it is a thought, or a sense, but I also know that it's not fundamentally true.

The other thing I have noticed is a small change but it seems like it might be significant. A drop away in resistance internally. I feel a bit lighter. A bit more ok with everything. Like I'm not judging everything anymore. I'm just saying 'it's ok'. It's a strange feeling in a way, it really is a very subtle shift, but I do wonder whether it is what I have been looking for. I suspect it may be, but I would like to give it longer to see whether this feeling of 'okayness' continues.

I am seeing that I am identified with the body still at the moment, but I am not now resisting it.

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bluejohns
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby bluejohns » Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:21 am

An update. Things seems to be dissolving quite rapidly. Old emotional patterns seen through, no judgement or control is needed. A change I am noticing is the feeling that I don't need to be in control anymore. Life has been happening and it continues to. I see now that life in itself has not changed at all, but my perception has.

When I look at 'I' now, I don't feel anxious or any desire to change it. It seems like it has lost its substance, weight. It is more like a description of a concept than what I am.

To re-answer your questions - i) yes, I trust life as it is and ii) I now see the character of John as an expression of life.

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Patrick
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby Patrick » Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:41 am

Nice to read how fast the perception is changing.

When you use ‘I’ in the last anwer what is this ‘I’?
How is daily life now?

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bluejohns
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby bluejohns » Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:21 am

This I is more of a sense of being than an owner of anything. It is my core essence. I understand now why people use words like consciousness, awareness, presence etc. It is difficult to describe something that is not an object and yet Is.

I still see the use of 'I' to define the wrapper called John, but it seems more like languaging than describing anything concrete. It points to a collection of sense, experiences, a character, a personality, a person in a story. I am resonating with the idea of calling all the component parts of a school 'school', when in fact a school in and of itself is not a thing. The same with 'I'.

Life is... easier. It actually is what I was hoping for!! So, my fear of disappointment appears to have been unfounded this far. I feel a sense smoothness, I already was very open to anything / everything that may come, but now that is coupled with a knowing that it can only be an enjoyable ride, because everything that is happening is not something I need to worry about controlling.

So, it would fit the description 'liberation'.

There are still some bodily inner sensations coming and going but I have confidence that whatever is happening is whatever needs to be happening.

I am sensing a real letting go of the need to control anything. And wonderfully, it seems as if within that space, things are seeming to feel more open and spacious. Like possibility and creativity have a space to enter the experience.

I feel relaxed and happy, but not due to anything external. I now understand when people talk about a 'subtle joy'. It feels a little bit like that.

Also, if I am to be honest I feel an excitement, and a confidence. Everything is ok at a fundamental experiencial level, even, dare I say, everything is good. I can feel a doubt arising about whether or not I should say such a thing... doubting whether it will last. It feels like rather a grand pronouncement to say 'everything is good', but hey, I need to speak my truth as I see it in the moment, so there it is. At the moment this is my deep sense.

A lot of my path recently has been around asking What Am I and focussing on I AM. When I do these practises now it's very interesting. Its as if they have no real use, no connection to any kind of answer. They are seen as questions / statements but there is no expectation that they will yield an answer or a great revelation.

The sense I AM remains, but the description I AM does not point to anything of substance.

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Patrick
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby Patrick » Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:27 am

The standard questions for finalizing this conversation

0) Do you confirm to have seen through the fiction of a separate self?

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

6) Anything to add?

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bluejohns
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby bluejohns » Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:08 am

0) Yes. I see now that what I thought was 'me' can't be. It doesn't point to anything.

1) Is there a separate entity called 'I' in reality? No. There never was.

2) It begins when we learn as young children that the collection of sounds, feelings, perceptions, sensations, sights, smells etc. all belong to us. The term 'I' is used to describe all of these things but we have also been taught that not only are these things happening, but that we are control of them, or that we 'own' them. The idea of control and ownership is deeply rooted and although untrue, is taken for granted to be true. We then also feel the need to defend the 'self' and create a better life, or whatever. I see it primarily as conditioning, a learned habit of thought. A belief.

3) It feels freeing and like a release, and a relief. I knew I was close. Before I started this dialogue I felt like there was a ball of pent up frustration or energy that was driving onwards, seeking. I was the seeker, seeking, striving in life, concerned about circumstances, identified with outcomes. Now I feel that all will come and there is nothing to hold on to or not hold on to. The story will carry on in it's own way and all is well. I feel no seeking, no desire to change anything. I have a renewed energy for my family and appreciation for all of life.

4) I googled 'ego death' and from the wikipedia page was linked to this forum. For me, finding this forum was the final step. I knew once i read other stories and got a feel for it that I had found what I was looking for. I knew I was committed to the outcome, however long it took, and i knew i would be guided all the way, with no stone left unturned. I could trust the process.

5) I would say fundamentally, no. Life is happening and I am that. I trust that I am life expressing itself. But the character John will make choices as necessary and all of that will flow just fine. There is no intention, decision, choosing or control required from me. Intelligence flows through me.

6) I am deeply grateful for this forum and everyone who gives themselves to it. I feel like there is so much more to see, and that this is just the first step on a wonderful journey.

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bluejohns
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby bluejohns » Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:05 pm

A couple of questions:

1. Should I expect another reply?

2. Is it common to experience doubts as to the reality of the seeing through? I ask because it appears that I may have reverted to the old pattern of identifying with 'I'.

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Patrick
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby Patrick » Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:02 pm

Your question about doubt.
This is common. Go back to direct experience and see what is real and what not.
Look again for the I. Could you find it somewhere?

There is a point that is not very clear in your answer on question 5.
I would say fundamentally, no.
Is there somewhere still a kind of subtle control of life? Could you elaborate on control.

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bluejohns
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby bluejohns » Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:42 pm

Ahhh. I feel like I'm going backwards. Now I feel like I'm completely in control.

Like I am this person John and I'm choosing what I'm doing and I'm thinking these thoughts and typing this message and feeling annoyed that I'm not where I thought I was.

I don't feel the need to seek anymore, but it's like I don't know what to believe.

It's like my perspective has shifted back.

If I ask What Am I, I get the answer 'John'. John who has responsibilities in life and needs to go and make difficult decisions, etc.

Help!

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bluejohns
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby bluejohns » Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:44 pm

In fact I wouldn't even say I don't feel the need to seek. I don't feel satisfied with where I'm at so I guess I do.

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Patrick
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby Patrick » Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:30 pm

What is missing?


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