Thread for Biggles

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Biggles
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Re: Thread for Biggles

Postby Biggles » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:34 pm

Hi T...

Thanks. Get back to you soon...

S x

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Biggles
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Re: Thread for Biggles

Postby Biggles » Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:07 pm

Hi T....

The first three questions...
Rest to follow....

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?


No. There is just awareness, loving presence. There's just impersonal awareness. Everything rises within this awareness, including thoughts of "me" and "other", objects, thoughts and so on.... But it's all seen, all perceived by/as awareness... And if it's perceived or seen, it can't be "me". Can't be the subject. In the past this awareness was mistaken for "me"....

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

To be honest I'm not sure how it starts. With the literal belief in labels I guess... A name, a gender, adjectives to describe "us"... all are eventually taken literally and become who "we" are... Seems to be an evolutionary hiccough... The tendency to literalism... The illusion of separate self is created by this literalism... It is when experience is divided into two... "self" and "world".... There is an identification with a fragment of experience.... Certain thoughts arising for example, consistent visual and tactile sensations of a particular body.. This is described as "me" and everything else is described as "world" or "other". "Self" and "me" particularly attach to the habitual, the familiar, the consistent, what gives pleasure or comfort.... So, for example, there is a consistent visual experience of this hand.... A "my" is attached.... Identity and perception are confused....... And now? Presently best way of describing the self would be that it's a transparent label.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

There is a pleasant strangeness, a quiet joy. An aliveness. Though, at times, in some ways, absorbed in conversation, working etc - things feel no different. There is some fear arising at times too. I started the dialogue with a previous guide in December. And then with yourself about 4 weeks ago I think. There has been a slow deepening over that time. In fact, there has been a slow deepening over the past ten years since I've been going on these formless meditation retreats. No real major shifts. But in the last few days there has been a shift from believing or semi believing the doubts which arise - to a trust in direct experience. The doubts still come but they are seen as just thoughts arising in awareness... There has been a tipping point.

S x

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Biggles
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Re: Thread for Biggles

Postby Biggles » Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:17 am

Hi T...

Rest of questions.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

I think the really significant shift was months ago when my guide asked me if I was confusing perception with identity. That phrase really stuck. Recently though I think it was when I was raising doubts I had about having seen through illusion of self - and also raising fact that there was still the experience of habitual anxiety, fear, etc you pointed me to the realisatiion that the doubts, the lordly thoughts, were "experiences, not the experiencer".... As insubstantial as anything else. And also helping me realise that there was some semi conscious belief that deeply ingrained habits should stop after seeing... This is obviously not the case!

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

If there is just awarenesss - there can be no "me" choosing, deciding, and so on.... Things happen. Actions happen. Decisions are made. Bodies move. "I" say "I have just decided to type this..." But these are just conceptualisations - necessary to get through day etc - superimposed on direct experience. Concepts label. But Life is indescribable. Things happen. Life happens. A myriad of conditions give rise to certain actions, events.... No me doing them. Right now can "I" decide what to have for a snack? A choice is made between humus and cheese. But the choice, the action is dependent on a multiplicity of conditions including hunger etc... "I decided to have the cheese" is a concept imposed after the action.... Writing a talk or a play... Especially obvious when it's going really well... The phrases just come out of the blue. Out of the void. Did "I" decide to choose that particular phrase? ... Spent longer on this question than the others... As if there is a ghost of a chooser, controller... But if there's no me, there can't be a chooser... Who's doing the choosing? All emerges out of awareness....

6) Anything to add?

Not really. There's been a lot of energy released - very disturbed sleep last three nights - guess it just needs to be ridden out. The strangeness and newness of this is unsettling - as well as lovely.

S x

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jowate
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Re: Thread for Biggles

Postby jowate » Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:59 am

Hi S,

Great! - I don't have any further questions for you right now, so I'm going to put the thread up for review on the guides' site and see whether anyone else has further questions ... or not ...

T.x

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Re: Thread for Biggles

Postby jowate » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:40 am

Hi S,

Ok, one point for clarification, re question 5 –
Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.


You wrote that you spent longer on this one and there is in fact more of a sense of your coming to logical conclusions:
But if there's no me, there can't be a chooser... Who's doing the choosing?


'if there's no me, [then] there can't be a chooser' - as distinct from writing arising out of direct experience / perception NOW.

So, directly, viscerally, right now: is there a ‘you’ controlling anything whatever? Is there even an atom of control?

T.x

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Biggles
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Re: Thread for Biggles

Postby Biggles » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:10 pm

Hi T...
So, directly, viscerally, right now: is there a ‘you’ controlling anything whatever? Is there even an atom of control?
No. Right now, sitting at computer.... There is just awareness..... One awareness.... No me controlling anything.... Awareness primary... Life happening within/as awareness....

S x

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Re: Thread for Biggles

Postby jowate » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:15 pm

Hi S,

Is 'awareness' you? Is it in any way - in direct experience - separate from what arises?

T.x

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Biggles
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Re: Thread for Biggles

Postby Biggles » Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:45 pm

Hi T..
Is 'awareness' you? Is it in any way - in direct experience - separate from what arises?
We talk of things arising in awareness but in direct experience there is no separation, no. Why I put "Life happening within/as awareness...." Awareness is impersonal - isn't me....

S x

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Re: Thread for Biggles

Postby jowate » Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:03 pm

Hi S,

Thanks, ok ... just hold on ...

T.x

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Re: Thread for Biggles

Postby jowate » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:25 pm

Hi S,

One more question ...

Have you entirely relinquished all idea or hope of control over anything? At all?

T.x

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Biggles
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Re: Thread for Biggles

Postby Biggles » Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:32 am

Hi T.
Have you entirely relinquished all idea or hope of control over anything? At all?
Good question :)

Okay, the person called S has habitual tendencies involving control. Eg. He is always early for trains and appointments, doesn't like his routine being disturbed, has worried and controlling tendencies regarding his health... These tendencies will still arise post gate (but hopefully attenuated and "I" might start missing trains).... But seen as arisings...

But there is a deeper question or questions... Which seem to be asking - "Are "you" aware that there is no you, that there is just awareness, that everything and anything can and will arise and there is absolutely nothing "you" can do about it? There is ultimately no control over death, illness and pain for example.... And that is known and seen.

S x

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jowate
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Re: Thread for Biggles

Postby jowate » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:09 pm

Hi S,

Sorry for the break ... I could have sworn I'd posted on a further follow late on Friday, but it's not there :(

Anyway, this is it:

Look unwaveringly to clarify whether you are still sidestepping the ultimate question: Has "the person called S" entirely relinquished all idea or hope of control over anything? At all?

What is 'ultimately' the case is not relevant; the only point is: do you think you have, or have ever had, or can have, any control at all. Please respond without implications or logic- just out of pure direct experience.

T.x

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Biggles
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Re: Thread for Biggles

Postby Biggles » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:13 am

Hi T...
Look unwaveringly to clarify whether you are still sidestepping the ultimate question: Has "the person called S" entirely relinquished all idea or hope of control over anything? At all?

What is 'ultimately' the case is not relevant; the only point is: do you think you have, or have ever had, or can have, any control at all. Please respond without implications or logic- just out of pure direct experience.
Got your post last night... Very broken sleep, as well as vivid dreams...

In direct experience - things just happening. Life unfolding like a movie or a dream.

"I" cant or have never been able to control or direct it all. Cant control anything. Physical sensations rising, feeling of fingers on keyboard movement of fingers, beating heart.... part of the flow, part of the movie/dream arising in/as awareness... "I" thoughts also part of the flow... But not doing the controlling..

Right now.... Hope and fear arise in the flow... Hope for good health test results... Fear it might not be the case.... Not "my" hope or fear...

Wrote that five minutes ago. Beating heart, anxiety arising. Bringing awareness to stomach - is there a feeling I can control my heart beat, calm down?... Can I exert control? Slight sense it's the case... Slight sense of controller.. Decision maker.. Concept rising after the experience I guess.. but cant seem to get below that right now...

Last week there has been an intuitive sense it's been seen... A kind of confidence in that , relief... Yet maybe lingering sense of a chooser, controller? ... Sorry, bit confused and knackered right now... Been at this for months and feel I kind of got there but..

Post this confused as it is....
S x

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Re: Thread for Biggles

Postby jowate » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:49 am

Hi S,
Yet maybe lingering sense of a chooser, controller?


It’s evident, ‘coming out of the cracks’ … e.g.
"I" cant or have never been able to control or direct it all.


I first read it as ‘"I" cant or have never been able to control or direct it at all’ … but that’s not what you wrote.

How can a non-existent ‘entity’ … a mere mental supposition … control anything?

It’s as simple as that. That there is a ‘sense’ of a controller / entity / self is entirely to be expected – because there is real experience that is the basis upon which mental activity, thinking-emotion, builds and maintains the belief.

‘I can’t control it all’ is giving the self-view a loophole. Belief sustaining doubt sustaining belief.

There is absolutely no entity, self, controller, agent. There never has been, neither ‘here’ nor ‘elsewhere’.

Well, is there?

T.x

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Biggles
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Re: Thread for Biggles

Postby Biggles » Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:37 pm

Hi T...
‘I can’t control it all’ is giving the self-view a loophole. Belief sustaining doubt sustaining belief.

There is absolutely no entity, self, controller, agent. There never has been, neither ‘here’ nor ‘elsewhere’.

Well, is there?
Unsure how to proceed or what to say.

But don't feel particularly frustrated. Last couple of days there has been an experience of boundary-lessness, sense of an all pervading awareness.... Bliss at times.... Feel that something significant has shifted.... Yet, given the last few posts, seems to be some lingering splinter of belief in self, controller, whatever... And now beginning to get very busy with a load of play rewrites on the way - dropping in the questions - "Is there a controller? Self? Agent? In any shape or form..." - can't quite engage, bit exhausted, after being on here daily and intensely since December... It's as if the questions are bouncing off me - (me slipping in again) - yet, at same time, right now, a rather blissful sense of presence... But has the illusion of self been seen through completely?

Don't want to stop - just want to relax into the inquiry a bit more - keep looking - while being busy - if I can.... There is a confidence that something has happened/is happening...
There is absolutely no entity, self, controller, agent. There never has been, neither ‘here’ nor ‘elsewhere’.
Well, is there?
How can a non-existent ‘entity’ … a mere mental supposition … control anything?
Okay, so those are the questions and the things to look at. Promise to keep looking and posting... But need to relax a bit...

S x


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