A Frog in Hot Water...Please Cook Until Well Done

This is a read-only part of the forum. All threads where seeing happens are stored here and come from this forum, the Facebook guiding area and various LU blogs. The complete list, sorted by guide, contains all links. The archives include threads of those that came to LU already seeing as well.
User avatar
Lib
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:06 pm
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

Re: A Frog in Hot Water...Please Cook Until Well Done

Postby Lib » Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:19 pm

Sooo, is there a separate entity me to which life happens?
Was there ever?
How does it feel to recognise that?
No,no,no.
...and no.
Joyful!

All I can say is I just took my dog for a walk and we had a lot in common. There is spaciousness and uncaused joy arising spontaneously. Leaves on the ground...wonderful. Beautiful blue christmas lights, giggles. That is how it feels, and I am damn sure not going to label it as anything other than what it is...spaciousness and giggles and joyfulness arising.

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7477
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

A Frog in Hot Water...Please Cook Until Well Done

Postby Ilona » Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:33 pm

That is just great. Big smile here!!

What was that last bit that made you see?
And how would you explain 'no self thingy' to somebody who never heard of it before?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

User avatar
Lib
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:06 pm
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

Re: A Frog in Hot Water...Please Cook Until Well Done

Postby Lib » Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:03 pm

What was that last bit that made you see?
What I have been doing for some time now as a practice is this stopping to notice there is no one there, then the mind comes in with various distractions. I was separating that into two events and believing that there was seeing when I stopped to look and not seeing when the mind was distracted. You pointed out that everything is the same. So when I looked at this while writing about it I could see that these were both the same. That noticing or not noticing were the same. Then the spaciousness started.
And how would you explain 'no self thingy' to somebody who never heard of it before?
My automatic response to this question is to go back to my first experiences of no self. To ask the person to stop thinking for a moment. Then to ask "when you stop thinking for a moment do you see that even without thought you are present and aware?" And when given a positive response, to say, "that is what you are...this thoughtless, present awareness." And to keep working around the same process asking "Is there any personality there while you are in this moment of thoughtless awareness?" "Is there any time in this place? Does this awareness come and go? It seems you could always come back to this thoughtless moment to point out that there is only this open spaciousness and the stream of appearances and that is all there ever is.

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7477
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

A Frog in Hot Water...Please Cook Until Well Done

Postby Ilona » Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:46 pm

Hm, the second part of your answer is not clear to me.

You are thoughtless awareness?
Really? Is it true?
Are you awareness?
Are you space?
Can you go deeper here please.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

User avatar
Lib
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:06 pm
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

Re: A Frog in Hot Water...Please Cook Until Well Done

Postby Lib » Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:58 pm

You are thoughtless awareness?
Really? Is it true?
Are you awareness?
Are you space?
Can you go deeper here please.
I see, awareness here is a label. And space is a label. Still another opportunity to take possession, yes? I am awareness. I am spaciousness.

In that moment when thinking stops there is only noticing. And that which is arising to be noticed.

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7477
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

A Frog in Hot Water...Please Cook Until Well Done

Postby Ilona » Sun Nov 27, 2011 5:24 pm

Do you exist?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

User avatar
Lib
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:06 pm
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

Re: A Frog in Hot Water...Please Cook Until Well Done

Postby Lib » Sun Nov 27, 2011 5:28 pm

No. Existing assumes an Exis-tor. Another label for the "I". I exist.

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7477
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

A Frog in Hot Water...Please Cook Until Well Done

Postby Ilona » Sun Nov 27, 2011 6:29 pm

So is that frog well done now? Cooked perfectly? Hihi
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

User avatar
Lib
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:06 pm
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

Re: A Frog in Hot Water...Please Cook Until Well Done

Postby Lib » Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:19 pm

Medium Rare. Watching to see if all the heat finishes off the frog. grin. grin. grin.

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7477
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: A Frog in Hot Water...Please Cook Until Well Done

Postby Ilona » Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:06 pm

ok.
so it's time to give us a rant. finish this off. tell us what you see, how this all being human thing works.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

User avatar
Lib
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:06 pm
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

Re: A Frog in Hot Water...Please Cook Until Well Done

Postby Lib » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:00 am

Ilona, had to leave the house..will write more in th AM.

User avatar
Lib
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:06 pm
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

Re: A Frog in Hot Water...Please Cook Until Well Done

Postby Lib » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:37 am

Ilona, THANK YOU for trapping me. Just like a rat in a maze. No escape and only one way out.  I have to say I actually got excited when you were calling me to task. It meant there was something I was missing…something that could still be seen. One can become quite the know-it-all after so many years of looking at this.  You don't think there is anything else to see and along comes Ilona and friends.
    
Does 12 hours of giggling a dead froggy make? Is there any clarity here?  I'm curious to find that out myself actually! But what the hay, I'm enjoying my day.  And Ilona, I would hope you would throw the critter back in the pot if you see any sneaky attempt to return from the dead.  Could just be a near-death experience! (LOL at my own joke.)

So, seriously, to answer your question re how does being human work?  

Human-ing is not a doing or even a being. It is the noticing (by no one) that doing and being are occurring. Such a variety of thoughts, emotions, sensations and subtle states occurring and they are all arising just to be noticed. Not to be labeled, or defined, just noticed. And then everything "human" happens automatically.

Actually the noticing and the occurring are the same thing. Without an occurrence there is no noticing. Without noticing there is no occurrence. You can't have one without the other.

That is all that is ever happening. The only thing that seems to change that, but really doesn't, is when an entity is created as a thought, or concept called "I" that claims the occurrence. Then it seems a human is doing and being of it's own volition and having all these experiences. What fun! What misery!

When the true nature of things is cracked open a hair it is seen that life is totally ordinary. No spiritual supermen. All that ordinariness. But seeing through the illusion of who we are brings lightness, relief, a sense that seeking is over, uncaused joy and excitement to our ordinariness. And that is just the first day. Which is really all I can speak about. There is a momentum of mind still, calling out to be grabbed. "Take me." And this is where the partially cooked get fooled again. And I've been fooled a few times. Keep your antenna up Ilona!

The great thing I saw with your prodding Ilona is that all of these occurrences or appearances are all the same. No difference. Without a label there is only "this" arising. This… not a thought. This…not a salt shaker. It is all THIS. If you grab onto "I am using the computer too much and going to the wrong sites, therefore I must have an addiction," and you see that story, that concept as different from this chair you are sitting on, you are going to be so totally hooked and uncooked. You have to see it ALL as the same. All as THIS. Then you can't be fooled again.(fingers crossed)

So Ilona, what is life like after the autopsy?

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7477
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

A Frog in Hot Water...Please Cook Until Well Done

Postby Ilona » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:40 pm

Thank you for answer. I see that you are cooked. Lol, there was no frog to be cooked, really ;)

I only have one question left for you.

Can you go back to the beginning of our conversation and look at the expectations that you had, then compare it to what has been seen and make a rant about it.

I find that it's the expectations that are in the way of seeing, so from your fresh eyes you have the best view. What was expected and how THIS is different.

Thank you Lib. I'm so happy for you.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

User avatar
Lib
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:06 pm
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

Re: A Frog in Hot Water...Please Cook Until Well Done

Postby Lib » Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:59 pm

Ilona, just to say again, I am very grateful for your help with this. It will be wonderful to look at my caregiving situation and the outcome of my beautiful partner's illness through clearer seeing. There already seems to be more much-needed energy available.
Can you go back to the beginning of our conversation and look at the expectations that you had, then compare it to what has been seen and make a rant about it.

I find that it's the expectations that are in the way of seeing, so from your fresh eyes you have the best view. What was expected and how THIS is different.
While I was looking back at this I read again what you were saying about "awakening" being the beginning of integration and deprogramming of the mind. This is so important in terms of expectations because for so long many, including myself have had an expectation that once awakening occurred that you were 100% complete with this. Or not. No changes left to occur. And yet I can remember reading the last book of Nisargadatta, who during his extremely painful cancer illness was undergoing changes in consciousness. And that after many years of some of the most profound teaching ever on this subject. Now there are more and more teachers talking about this integration, this apparent process or unfolding so expectations don't have to be so rigid.

One of the personal expectations here was that there would be a break-through clear, unambiguous and out-of-this-world experience of "no me." That did not happen as some kind of separate woo-woo experience. And yet the seeing/knowing that there is no controller happens inevitably when other misconceptions are cleared away by the unique direct pointing that occurs on this site.

Another expectation was that if laughing didn't occur, awakening hadn't happen. And actually laughing did occur. But I think a "wry smile" would probably be sufficient as an expectation. :)

Another litmus test was that after awakening one should be able to open their mouth and profound words of wisdom would flow and you were ready to join the circuit. I know there are many who awaken who never teach and never talk about it. And yet one's presence alone no doubt has it's own effect. Or not.

There is also an expectation that there will be more other-worldy experiences occurring as a result of awakening. And maybe a disappointment initially that life is so ordinary. No archangels sitting on your doorstep to greet you when you get back from grocery shopping. And yet, the gifts of the ordinary begin to reveal themselves.

And last but not least, there are certainly expectations about the mind stream, that it will at least slow down to a trickle and won't come back except for practical purposes. There have been experiences here where that happened for months at a time. And when the mind stream does inevitably come back in there was the doubt ("I" arising) that said "I wasn't there yet." The doubt was not seen as an appearance just like any other experience. It was taken literally and then the "I" was back up and running again. But even the "I back up and running again" can be seen as an appearance. This is critical to see in terms of expectations. The mind stream appears to be going pretty strong here but there is such a clear understanding (thank you Ilona very much) that anything can arise as THIS. So even doubt arising will be seen as THIS. Even being "lost in thought" can be seen as THIS.

That's about it girlfriend. Back to life arising, eh?

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7477
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: A Frog in Hot Water...Please Cook Until Well Done

Postby Ilona » Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:09 pm

Tank you Lib. :)
I see you are through and i'm really happy....

are you gonna join our facebook group?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book


Return to “ARCHIVES”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 7 guests