Would like help to investigate deeper

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Pete
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Re: Would like help to investigate deeper

Postby Pete » Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:50 pm

Hi John,
Lots of pretty intense emotions coming up here and there over last few days.. Questioning will come up, confusion/frustration gets uncomfortable, then a pause and realization that it is all thought and can be swept aside. Those uncomfortable self conscious situations are more difficult to sweep aside while they are happening... but there is an internal noticing at what is happening, the sensations, etc. I keep with that and the upset seems to subside quicker.
I know you're going to ask who this is all happening to right :)? I keep going back to that as well, looking to see if there is a person this is happening to.. the feeling and self image comes up but no concrete existing 'person'. I did realize that the image or perspective of the image looking out upon the world, that feeling of me looking out, is also a thought/image, there is nothing at the source looking out.
So, still lots of 'real feeling' stuff going on here and still a recurring looking (which can turn in to a mental exercise sometimes as well). Trying to accept and relax with everything, sometimes successful. Oh, last night was working on accepting and comforting the angry feeling coming up, or the fear, telling it it is welcome and that it will be okay.. this brought a peace.

Thanks,
Pete

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Pete
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Re: Would like help to investigate deeper

Postby Pete » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:46 am

Had this thought today, 'can I just claim that there is no me if these feelings, etc. keep coming up?'.. Then the thought that I can never claim there is no me. That would be a me making a claim. It is funny that thought feels pressure to declare there is no me but then who'd be declaring it? So I suppose the only thing that can be said is that it is seen that a me does not exist, or only temporarily exists as thought/belief/sensation.

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s-p-a-c-e
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Re: Would like help to investigate deeper

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:29 pm

Hi Pete,
Hi John,
Lots of pretty intense emotions coming up here and there over last few days.. Questioning will come up, confusion/frustration gets uncomfortable, then a pause and realization that it is all thought and can be swept aside. Those uncomfortable self conscious situations are more difficult to sweep aside while they are happening... but there is an internal noticing at what is happening, the sensations, etc. I keep with that and the upset seems to subside quicker.
This can be a really valuable time in which the nature of thought is seen ever more clearly. The conditioning continues to run and a "you" will appear to get "hooked" :) on "my" thought and "believe" it and "re-act" to it - but it's the seeing of it each time that is so useful.

Take a look at the present thoughts/ideas that show up about what thoughts are and whether they are good/bad/neutral, and ought they be ignored/seen/pushed aside?
I know you're going to ask who this is all happening to right :)?
:) Well, they appear to be somebody's thoughts appearing to that certain somebody.

And that sense-of-ownership and sense-of-appearing-to are thoughts/beliefs too - to be clearly seen.
I keep going back to that as well, looking to see if there is a person this is happening to.. the feeling and self image comes up but no concrete existing 'person'. I did realize that the image or perspective of the image looking out upon the world, that feeling of me looking out, is also a thought/image, there is nothing at the source looking out.
Yes, excellent...each time, you track back at what is being assumed and it all comes to nothing - in a good way. hehe
So, still lots of 'real feeling' stuff going on here and still a recurring looking (which can turn in to a mental exercise sometimes as well). Trying to accept and relax with everything, sometimes successful. Oh, last night was working on accepting and comforting the angry feeling coming up, or the fear, telling it it is welcome and that it will be okay.. this brought a peace.
Great stuff. All our reacting emotions e.g. anger etc, are pretty much always because a "soft spot" (something we're conditioned to not be proud of e.g. feeling a failure etc) has been exposed to ourselves by someone/something - and we blame them. :)

So the story goes: welcoming the reacting emotion with love is also healing the "soft spot".

This is all good Pete.

Who is doing all this great work though? ;)

And does awareness have a location? Or is it's location a belief/thought?

WIth best wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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Re: Would like help to investigate deeper

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:31 pm

Hi Pete,
Had this thought today, 'can I just claim that there is no me if these feelings, etc. keep coming up?'.. Then the thought that I can never claim there is no me. That would be a me making a claim. It is funny that thought feels pressure to declare there is no me but then who'd be declaring it? So I suppose the only thing that can be said is that it is seen that a me does not exist, or only temporarily exists as thought/belief/sensation.
Cool. :) It's simply known. No knower, as you say.

What's it like to have expressed that?

Best wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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Pete
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Re: Would like help to investigate deeper

Postby Pete » Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:43 pm

Thanks for both replies John..
"what's it like to have expressed that?" (that I can never declare there is no me). Well, it is somewhat freeing but there is still some confusion around it. The mind is still trying to figure it out and wants to come to a conclusion. But if thinking is set aside then it is seen here that I can not find a me... BUT :) it seems I need to go deeper.. Funny, one of these days maybe I'll stop taking thought seriously? There is just really a sense that there is somewhere I need to get! So like you said, look now at the thoughts I have about this sense...this shouldn't be here, why does this keep happening to me. Good stuff, I'll keep this up.
Btw, getting glimpses of seeing this body/mind more clearly.

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Re: Would like help to investigate deeper

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:59 pm

Hi Pete,
Thanks for both replies John..
"what's it like to have expressed that?" (that I can never declare there is no me). Well, it is somewhat freeing but there is still some confusion around it. The mind is still trying to figure it out and wants to come to a conclusion. But if thinking is set aside then it is seen here that I can not find a me... BUT :) it seems I need to go deeper.. Funny, one of these days maybe I'll stop taking thought seriously? There is just really a sense that there is somewhere I need to get! So like you said, look now at the thoughts I have about this sense...this shouldn't be here, why does this keep happening to me. Good stuff, I'll keep this up.
Btw, getting glimpses of seeing this body/mind more clearly.
The "I" hides in "m(i)nd". :)

What is this that is labelled "mind"? Is "mind" an object? Who's "mind"? What is it's existence?

Really look at what is being called "mind" and see if there is such a thing beyond a concept/thought. See if you can put your finger on "mind".

Look at your own existence as "Pete" - what's beyond existence and non-existence?

And then, sitting quietly, with a breath coming and going and awareness everywhere and nowhere...is anything out of place? And no-one to know and knowing.

Best wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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Pete
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Re: Would like help to investigate deeper

Postby Pete » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:46 pm

Hi John,
When all is let go there is just THIS, anything said is just description on top of it. Any question about it has no meaning. Mind is not a thing, it just what we call thoughts coming up from a seemingly certain viewpoint. When thought is let go THIS is all that's left. Game over. So I suppose THIS wants to play a game and see / describe things a certain way... otherwise how to experience?
Right now it seems pointing is desired so we'll see what happens.
By the way, may I ask how you see this experience (of question and answer), who is talking to whom?

Thanks,
Pete

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Re: Would like help to investigate deeper

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:05 pm

Hi Pete,
Hi John,
When all is let go there is just THIS, anything said is just description on top of it. Any question about it has no meaning. Mind is not a thing, it just what we call thoughts coming up from a seemingly certain viewpoint. When thought is let go THIS is all that's left. Game over. So I suppose THIS wants to play a game and see / describe things a certain way... otherwise how to experience?
Right now it seems pointing is desired so we'll see what happens.
Yep, just this, here and now. Simple and endless.
By the way, may I ask how you see this experience (of question and answer), who is talking to whom?
In general, there's the guiding, whilst knowing that guiding is a story; this episode includes "Pete" and "John". What I am is unknown. Truly. Don't tend to think of me as a who. :) My basic response to life is as a mystery. So this process is an "inquiry" and it's not an "inquiry" at the same time. Stopped looking for answers at some point. There was no need.

With best wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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Pete
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Re: Would like help to investigate deeper

Postby Pete » Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:15 am

In general, there's the guiding, whilst knowing that guiding is a story; this episode includes "Pete" and "John". What I am is unknown. Truly. Don't tend to think of me as a who. :) My basic response to life is as a mystery. So this process is an "inquiry" and it's not an "inquiry" at the same time. Stopped looking for answers at some point. There was no need.
I see that the story is that it is inquiry but in reality it is nothing but thought / energy in motion, a mystery. Sitting here with thoughts right now and it is incredible how real the me feels.. Maybe there is more appreciation for this when it is seen it can't be found. This me is grateful for the process.

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Re: Would like help to investigate deeper

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:55 pm

Hi Pete,
In general, there's the guiding, whilst knowing that guiding is a story; this episode includes "Pete" and "John". What I am is unknown. Truly. Don't tend to think of me as a who. :) My basic response to life is as a mystery. So this process is an "inquiry" and it's not an "inquiry" at the same time. Stopped looking for answers at some point. There was no need.
I see that the story is that it is inquiry but in reality it is nothing but thought / energy in motion, a mystery. Sitting here with thoughts right now and it is incredible how real the me feels.. Maybe there is more appreciation for this when it is seen it can't be found. This me is grateful for the process.
The "how-real-me-feels" feeling is just fine. It's a feeling that comes and goes. And it's seen that it is what it is: a feeling, and not what we'd conditioned ourselves to believe: that it is the substance called me. :) This is seen clearly, very simply, in awareness.

How's the "going deeper" thought Pete? Still showing up to no-one? :)

Speak soon,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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Pete
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Re: Would like help to investigate deeper

Postby Pete » Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:18 pm

Good morning John,
The "how-real-me-feels" feeling is just fine. It's a feeling that comes and goes. And it's seen that it is what it is: a feeling, and not what we'd conditioned ourselves to believe: that it is the substance called me. :) This is seen clearly, very simply, in awareness.
Yes it is... thank you for that. I'd like to know this beyond ALL doubt.
How's the "going deeper" thought Pete? Still showing up to no-one? :)
Not at the moment, comes and goes like everything else :).
There is an ongoing sense that as certain 'problematic thoughts' come up that "I have to deal with them". My next thought was "I have to work on this" and that brings tension in the body, the mind spinning up... it is seen and let go.
What seems to work best with these 'problematic thoughts', self conscious thoughts, is to ask myself while they are occurring, "from where is this being seen?". That makes it clear that a seeing is happening of the entire scenario, me and others, a seeing from no where.
I guess it's this, or truth, that I want to know deeper (beyond all doubt). Something here is tired of believing in conditioned thoughts of a me.
I really appreciate you continually pointing me back to truth, it has an effect.

Pete

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Re: Would like help to investigate deeper

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:59 pm

Hi Pete,
Good morning John,
The "how-real-me-feels" feeling is just fine. It's a feeling that comes and goes. And it's seen that it is what it is: a feeling, and not what we'd conditioned ourselves to believe: that it is the substance called me. :) This is seen clearly, very simply, in awareness.
Yes it is... thank you for that. I'd like to know this beyond ALL doubt.
How's the "going deeper" thought Pete? Still showing up to no-one? :)
Not at the moment, comes and goes like everything else :).
There is an ongoing sense that as certain 'problematic thoughts' come up that "I have to deal with them". My next thought was "I have to work on this" and that brings tension in the body, the mind spinning up... it is seen and let go.
What seems to work best with these 'problematic thoughts', self conscious thoughts, is to ask myself while they are occurring, "from where is this being seen?". That makes it clear that a seeing is happening of the entire scenario, me and others, a seeing from no where.
I guess it's this, or truth, that I want to know deeper (beyond all doubt). Something here is tired of believing in conditioned thoughts of a me.
I really appreciate you continually pointing me back to truth, it has an effect.
This seeing from no where - explore it:

Does it have a location?

Can it see itself?

Best,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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Pete
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Re: Would like help to investigate deeper

Postby Pete » Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:17 pm

Hi John,
This seeing from no where - explore it:

Does it have a location?

Can it see itself?
It is here, knowing/seeing with no location, no form.. it can not see itself. Seeing is completely indescribable, I don't know what it IS, just like any other experience/thing. I don't know any thing... nothing has meaning right now, sort of deflated/defeated feeling, maybe a good thing? Then again in the midst of this, the feeling is seen/known, whatever that means.

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Re: Would like help to investigate deeper

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:27 pm

Hi Pete,
Hi John,
This seeing from no where - explore it:

Does it have a location?

Can it see itself?
It is here, knowing/seeing with no location, no form.. it can not see itself. Seeing is completely indescribable, I don't know what it IS, just like any other experience/thing. I don't know any thing... nothing has meaning right now, sort of deflated/defeated feeling, maybe a good thing? Then again in the midst of this, the feeling is seen/known, whatever that means.
Pete, various emotions may come up at different times as this is a different way of being. Let them come and be and they will wash through.

This is a transition period which everyone experiences in their own way. It's why we have the Facebook groups so it can be shared.

Seeing this is rarely what is expected, but from your description, you see it very well.

How are the feelings today? It does settle down. :)

WIth best wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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Pete
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Re: Would like help to investigate deeper

Postby Pete » Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:04 pm

Yep, it washed through..
I just noticed a transition or change in focus from seer to no seer. Seems when looking for the I, that a me comes into focus that is looking, the I can be felt clearly as some thing looking. This wasn't easy but when finally in DE just hearing was noticed with no hearer, then back to a sound and a hearer.
So I think this is where frustration comes up as when in the 'I' mode and searching it is unpleasant. I'm guessing that it will gradually settle down and I-mode wont be a problem? This is kinda weird right now, the searching to root out a me keeps coming up, but it's the me that is searching. I know (or there is a knowing here) that 'I' just needs to give up. I suppose the search needs to be completely exhausted first. (:


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