Guidance requested.

[idomebutami]

Greetings.

I wrote this yesterday, ill post it as a means to establish temperment. Otherwise, all following interactions will be fresh.



I feel like I am stuck in a very clean ego observer perspective.

If you asked me who I am, I would have enough of a spiritual intellectual conviction to know that I am not a person and that a person cannot exist. I know that my existence is observed within the space of something much larger than myself, but not even larger, just more fundamental. It's like being on top of a mountain, your perspective is specific based on local, and even though you cannot see from the lower levels of the mountain, you know that you are standing on top of something greater because the extent of IT is implicit within your current perspective.

I understand that moments and events are only echoes and mental refractions of the otherwise pure and constant expression of Perception/Existence. I can silence thought, not by an enforcement of silence, but by realizing that I am the listener of thought, so therefore I can choose to listen internally or externally, to thoughts or ambience. But...can I remove the listener and become the sound of the wind?

A lot of Huang Po's teachings prescribe eliminating conceptual thought. Is that the same thing as perceptual thought? I understand the trickiness of using the phrase perceptual thought, because I realize that there is thought and then there is perception, and usually thought is just a reflection of perception. But within that term I am referring to MY perception of perception as perceptual thought. So when I eliminate the thought constructs that I build around my perceptions, I am left with the observance of my perceptions. But, how do I eliminate the observer of perception?

[Eloratea]

Greetings to you too!

I am the listener of thought, so therefore I can choose to listen internally or externally, to thoughts or ambience. But...can I remove the listener and become the sound of the wind?

What if there is already no listener separate from listening? What if he is created by thoughts during the interpretation of experience. How about eliminating this conceptual thought by checking through all types of perceptions, like seeing, hearing, smelling…?

Also notice whenever thought „I“ arises what it actually points to?

For this inquiry you just need to be honest and child-like simple :)

Best wishes!

[idomebutami]

So listening as a naked verb, unattached from the listener. Understandable, but tough for me. Because instantly, my mind constructs "the one" who will undertake this goal of separating the two...

[Eloratea]

Doesn't matter really, mind is just doing its job with thoughts.
Observe gently what is going on. Also in regard to my question about "I" thought.
Then write what you have found.
No judging. Just pure, innocent observation and reporting.

Warm greetings.

[idomebutami]

Well and of course then I could ask myself the question, who is observing all of this activity. So, do I need to focus on listening? and then will i ultimately just blend into the listening as Listening? Im sitting here typing and listening to Jazz. If i stop and listen, it still feels like "I" am listening. Who is "I", ...def the source of self-ness within "me". I know my "I" is contantly trying to claim ownership of everything. I dont really have an answer tho for what arises as I. Lots of activity right now at work tho, plan to find some silence shortly and will re-examin this.

I just want to sit here, and not be sitting as someone sitting...

[Eloratea]

Well and of course then I could ask myself the question, who is observing all of this activity.

That thought can arise and subside…

So, do I need to focus on listening? and then will i ultimately just blend into the listening as Listening? Im sitting here typing and listening to Jazz. If i stop and listen, it still feels like "I" am listening.

What if your assumption make it feel that way? Please don't expect any mystical blending (though I don't say it is not possible) just effortlessly look into experience as it unfolds without assumptions that there is you separate from experience. And see how does that feel.

Who is "I", ...def the source of self-ness within "me". I know my "I" is contantly trying to claim ownership of everything. I dont really have an answer tho for what arises as I. Lots of activity right now at work tho, plan to find some silence shortly and will re-examin this.

Good, have some silent time if possible And examine possibility that „I“ is just a thought. Doing nothing, but thought after thought follow, without examination if their content is true.

I just want to sit here, and not be sitting as someone sitting...

Maybe it is already the case. Body is sitting, perceptions are happening, but only thoughts say otherwise and modify pure effortless experience…

Till later,
warm regards.

[idomebutami]

Very interesting...when I consider your thoughts on not expecting something mystical...I feel a little resistance, or more of a notification that I AM infact expecting that. Its as if my current perspective, albeit a quiet one, can never be that.. "next" level up, or next level "back" in awareness. What makes me feel that way? Why am i expecting something mystical? All im looking for is a new identification as that which is aware of my current identification. Make sense?

[Eloratea]

Mystical or not doesn't matter. Mystical experiences may have their value. But what is critical here is do you want truth or something particular, something that feels good. This is critical point!
If you can drop all expectations right now (and later at some point you may come back and see if they are fulfilled or not interesting anymore) there will be a clear path for this investigation.

[idomebutami]

Truth isnt particular, and I know this. And mystical to me doesnt neccessarily imply feeling good, just a CHANGE in perspective.

The clear path is this: I can step back enough in my awareness to be before thoughts and to be alone with my perceptions. I just want to remove the one who is aware of these perceptions, and just percieve.

In your orignal post, you brought a discussion to me that the "listener" may just be created by thought during the interpreting of the experience. Please elaborate on this.

Thank you for your pasion in this area.

[Eloratea]

Truth isnt particular, and I know this. And mystical to me doesnt neccessarily imply feeling good, just a CHANGE in perspective.

Seeing this or any piece of truth will bring change in perspective, of course.

The clear path is this: I can step back enough in my awareness to be before thoughts and to be alone with my perceptions. I just want to remove the one who is aware of these perceptions, and just perceive.

You still haven't told me what „I“ points to. Who wants to remove whom? Let's get sober and see what is there and what is not. What is just an assumption. So, please, begin to look in your own experience and report from it. It is the only way this is going to work.

In your orignal post, you brought a discussion to me that the "listener" may just be created by thought during the interpreting of the experience. Please elaborate on this.

Pay attention on thoughts how they arise and claim – i am doing this, or i have done this…or I am aware of this…
But what I point to you repeatedly is to check if there is anything substantial behind the thought „I“. Or it is just an empty thought as any other, arising in awareness?

Thank you for your passion in this area.

Thank you for the interest in this. Let's get most of it!

[idomebutami]

So i took a few days to really examine this "i"dea. When i place my attention soley on my "I" i find that there is nothing there, i also find that there is a subtle expansion.

...I am the "I" that I am always searching for. I guess just sometimes the information that i purchase from my "person" makes me feel that i have YET to achieve something...?

[Eloratea]

When you look right now in your actual experience, how it looks like?
Different visual perceptions, sounds, thoughts…maybe thought –"who am I?"-arises…just a thought.
If you sit still for some time and let this experience be as it is. Letting thoughts to flow, without following them, you will notice this natural sense of awareness. Stay there for some time.
What if this was used to be labeled with thought „I“ and imaginary character created which doesn't exist anywhere except in thoughts?

What if it is same with this need to achieve something? If it is created out of illusion of non-existent „me“ and natural intent and will of life's expression.
Go deeper into this. How thoughts work and develop „me“.
But is there in your experience any real separation. Anything separated from the rest of life?

Greetings and best wishes!

[idomebutami]

So I feel like our exchanges aren't as fluid as I need them to be in order to pass thru this gate. I understand that what you express is a universal truth, but the linguistic styles need to align in order for transmission to occur. Please help me find someone else that may be able to communicate with me more effectively.

Thank you for all of your help and time!!

[Eloratea]

I've shared your request with other guides and hope you will hear from someone soon.

Best wishes!

[Chris]

Hello, I'm Chris and if you'd like, we can see if I can be of help.

So i took a few days to really examine this "i"dea. When i place my attention soley on my "I" i find that there is nothing there, i also find that there is a subtle expansion.

...I am the "I" that I am always searching for. I guess just sometimes the information that i purchase from my "person" makes me feel that i have YET to achieve something...?

So you found out that you are the "I" that you are searching for, how so?