Can you help "me", Ilona?

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Riktam
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Re: Can you help "me", Ilona?

Postby Riktam » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:38 am

I didn't want to open my eyes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I felt sad before opening, such as I miss it (the melon).

Do I avoid losing a thing which I already know that doesn't exist ?

Really?


Love.
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Re: Can you help "me", Ilona?

Postby Ilona » Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:16 am

Interesting isn't it?
So what happened to the melon?

Describe in detail.
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Re: Can you help "me", Ilona?

Postby Riktam » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:29 pm

I followed your instructions:
feel the weight, get playful, feel it as vividly as you can
So there came those loss feelings I told you.

When I opened my eyes obviously I didn't see the melon.
But some of its feelings remained a little time, like the feeling of weight and texture in my hands, as it had been real.
Until the time I withdrew my hands and begin to reply to you.

Love.
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Re: Can you help "me", Ilona?

Postby Ilona » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:17 pm

ok, so just like with this melon, that never existed and is felt, so is this i. there is no i at all, it is imagined. and see how mind got attached to that image, it is only an image. can you see that?

what exactly comes up, when you investigate the i?
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Re: Can you help "me", Ilona?

Postby Riktam » Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:32 pm

Dear Ilona,

Yesterday there was an unexpected emergency affecting my son and for that reason I still couldn't go on.
I'll be back to the forum as soon I can give the necessary care to him.
Thank you.

Love,

Riktam.
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Re: Can you help "me", Ilona?

Postby Ilona » Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:41 pm

dear Riktam, i hope your son is ok, and whatever happened is not affecting his health too much. sending warm wishes.

write when you can angain.
much love.
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Re: Can you help "me", Ilona?

Postby Riktam » Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:11 am

Thank you, Ilona.

Things are better today, although the situation is not totally in control yet, my son is back to his home and he is being observed.

On the last days a lot of strong feelings came like fear, revolt and hopelessness, triggering an avalanche of thoughts which confused my arising ability to see through imaginations.

The concept of "I" is still persecuting my daily thoughts.

Your last question was:

what exactly comes up, when you investigate the i?

The "I" is not only a label to identify the body-mind set.

It's also a story that we build - "my" childhood, "my" graduation, "my" first girlfriend, "my" marriages, "my" trips, "my" achievements... a story we try to continue and to keep better and fine.

It's a way to feel important, relevant, accepted.
Today I posted a comment in a blog (nothing special, only a sports blog) and later I caught myself thinking how smart my comment was, I even returned to the blog to see if someone has replied it. If so, I would fell rewarded.

It's also a way to catch hold of thoughts, ideas, feelings.... to make them "mine"...

It's more complex than we first imagined it.

Love,

Riktam.
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Re: Can you help "me", Ilona?

Postby Ilona » Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:02 pm

I is not a story. It is not memory, it is not complex at all. It is a simple unit of language that is used to describe experience. I breathe, I walk, I talk, I type.

Is there an I that is a doer?

The story is about I. It's fiction. And it's real story about fictional character- me.

Can you see that mind is resisting the simplicity?
What is real is simple. It's obvious. It's here now.

What is imagined is a whole bubble castles created by repetition and made of assumptions.

Look at what is obvious already.
Without language, is there a doer I?

Write what you see.
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Re: Can you help "me", Ilona?

Postby Riktam » Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:50 am

Hi, Ilona.

I spent the most of the present day thinking of your questions.

There was some moments of apparent unburdening, mainly when I faced the question:
Without language, is there a doer I?
There is not.
I can think a melon without a word, but I cannot think the "I" without a word.
As I cannot think "respect", "mind", "soul", and other concepts without a word.
Is it a criteria for reality?
Is there an I that is a doer?
A body is. Like a tool.
Can you see that mind is resisting the simplicity?
There is a lot of resistance, maybe fear. In fact, the most of the time I was struggling internally with those questions and answers.
Let me show you some samples of thoughts that arose:

"Imagination is an important part of creative process"

"The 'I' is necessary to relate to others, specially when I am on my job"

"If someone calls me at the office and tells me that I forgot my window open, and it's raining, and the rain is soaking my carpet, and before taking any action I visualize my carpet being wet, is that scene unreal?"

Do you see? I went ahead and back again in a lot of resistance thoughts, alternating with moments of clarity when looking to your main question. This struggle disturbs me very much.

How can I relax and surrender to what you are pointing?

Love,

Riktam.
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Re: Can you help "me", Ilona?

Postby Ilona » Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:55 am

Good stuff. Here is another post for you with an exercise. http://markedeternal.blogspot.co.uk/201 ... s.html?m=1 do it and write what you notice.

Yes, imagination is a powerful tool and source of creativity and entertainment. But when imagined is taken for reality there is a confusion. There is nothing wrong with imagination at all as long as its clear that images are just that- images. All imagined sceenes are unreal. Only what is experienced here now is. What is created by the mind- isn't.

I is created by the mind. As a center if reference. And without language there is no I. The key is to see that there is no doer behind the letter I.

Sending love.
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Re: Can you help "me", Ilona?

Postby Riktam » Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:28 am

Ilona, very beautiful post, I loved it.

I felt much lighter when thinking things without the "I".

For some moments I can feel without the "I" and I enjoy that moments, but conditioning always take me back to the previous state, unless I keep myself alert and focusing all the time in what you have been pointing to me.

Mind continues to resist too, opposing what I feel when I just look, and its arguments are becoming more elaborated each day. Should I disregard them? But I feel if I do it, doubts will remain in the background, teasing me.

The facing of a necessity, followed of the justified decision to act, the order of the brain and the movement of the body in action, all in sequence, create the illusion of a doing.

You told that for you it just took a few seconds and all the search was over...
So what lacks for me? What am I missing?

Thank you for your patience.

Love.
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Re: Can you help "me", Ilona?

Postby Ilona » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:29 am

You still think that there is a me, an I that is searching.

Is there?
Is it you that is searching or searching is happening?
Is it you that is experiencing or experiencing is happening?

Is it you that is resisting or resistance arises by itself?

Did you do that exercise in writing? It is not the same if you only do it in the mind.
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Re: Can you help "me", Ilona?

Postby Riktam » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:50 am

Ilona,

As a matter of fact I did the exercise in the mind for the reason that (believe it or not) there are not an empty copybook in my house. I will buy a new one and in the weekend I'll do the correct exercise, I promise...
May be in my native language substituting the "I" for the gerund tense of the verb ("Waiting for next thought, typing, breathing, blinking, hearing"), would not make the same effect because in my native language that tense supposes an implicit subject, so it's better to say "thought" than "thinking".

But today happened some things I have to tell you. It was a very special day. I had to be in a 3.200 km round trip to Rio de Janeiro in order to participate in a meeting with an important client. I woke up early in the morning and just after the breakfast I continued the exercise in mind, thinking always without the subject. It continued when driving to the airport and also in the plane, so it lasted the whole morning instead of the few minutes of previous experiences.

And it was wonderful, I didn't felt the "I" and my body became more and more relaxed and pleasured and all that time my mind was not disagreeing with the absence of "I", the questionings I told you yesterday didn't come.
Some moments even laugh came and also an intense feeling of love to whoever I saw in front of me. It lasted till the beginning of the meeting - it was a tense meeting with a client - and at that moment I felt I had to "wear" the "I" to have a good performance.
This evening I'm trying to continue but it's not as intense as in the morning.
But today I'm more hopeful than yesterday.

Maybe I was fighting the "I" and it hampered the process. I was fighting a nonexistent thing, you see?

Tomorrow I will investigate your questions about searching, experiencing and resisting. But I feel I'm getting closer.

Love,

Riktam.
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Re: Can you help "me", Ilona?

Postby Ilona » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:24 am

That is very interesting how this exercise installed itself in your thinking and was carried on by itself. Does I thought still create tension in the system or is it seen merely as a grammatical tool of expression? Is there anything behind the I thought that is a separate entity?

Yes, the fight in the head is all imagined. There is no I, there is no ego that needs to die, there are only thoughts, a story, which goes on by itself.

Do you exist as a separate entity, that is in charge of life, thinker and doer?
What is really happening here?

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: Can you help "me", Ilona?

Postby Riktam » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:52 pm

Ilona,

There's no more tension for that, mind is no more fighting the concept, it seems like the journey continues, but the ship is no more crossing troubled waters, but much calmer ones. And clearer also.
Tension for ordinary problems of life will come and go, of course. They will happen.
What still remains is the habit of thinking and acting as an "I". Mainly when relating to others.
Do you exist as a separate entity, that is in charge of life, thinker and doer?


I'm not thinking so right now.
What is really happening here?
... nothing?...


Love,

Riktam.
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