Goosh... let's do your work here.

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mag
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Re: Goosh... let's do your work here.

Postby mag » Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:39 pm

Hi Kate,

My guiding in this thread has been from a broader angle than what is usual in LU, and this may have made all this look overly complicated. For example, that "blop" thought bursting exercise that I have given is very beneficial, but not really needed to see through the illusion of self. One could do start with that exercise after the process is over in LU.

To simplify things, I could give following for you to contemplate:

What is not happening on automatic in life?

We have assumption that there is "I" that is doing all kinds of things, thinking, moving body, feeling and so on, but when observed, it is seen that all of these activities are just happening, and "I" doesn't have anything to do with them. In fact, "I" doesn't exist anywhere other than in imagination, as a thought. And thoughts are not real. It was just mind that had dreamed an "I" into existence. "I" is just a fiction.


Can you get a grasp of above? Seeing through illusion of a self, is basically seeing clearly this.
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Goosh
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Re: Goosh... let's do your work here.

Postby Goosh » Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:24 am

Yes I do see that I is an illusion, a concept that has overtaken its usefulness.
It has never existed as such and as this body grows older and dies it will not be, hopefully, so in evidence.
I think it has become much less there since begining this LU process. I can see that thoughts are very connected with I, and with awareness of the illusion the thoughts loose their sticking power.
There is a freedom in knowing this, and it is beautifully simple.
Yes I totally see that I is an illusion.
Kate

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Re: Goosh... let's do your work here.

Postby mag » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:16 pm

If you don't believe in "I", there will be something different in your daily living. Is there a difference? How life looks like, sitting on a bench in a park, for example? How would you describe life, this existence?
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Re: Goosh... let's do your work here.

Postby Goosh » Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:22 am

Yes there is a difference. I haven't sat on a park bench this week but I have been observing. Life is more spacious.. I find myself listening to people more intently, and watching everything more openly. My life is just as busy but there is more time. There is no need to rush because now is now. Despite not rushing, I have not been late for anything, infact I have been in good time for all the different meetings, classes, courses etc.
Mostly I have just felt calm. I have needed to be fierce on a couple of occasions but it felt less personal, just something that needed to be done.
Every now and then I feel a rush of ... bliss.... love...... Things appear luminous.


But also I have felt very sensitive to other people's suffering and got tearful at the weekend.

I would describe this existence as one whole living dying moving interacting beautiful wild painful ecstatic now. . .
No words can really describe anything but a tiny part of this ...
....
Despite this amazing realisation, I must sleep now.
Wave after wave of bliss... how can I sleep?

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Re: Goosh... let's do your work here.

Postby mag » Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:23 pm

Kate, wow, quite a sudden change of tone in your writing. Do you feel that you are ready to answer the final questions of LU?

If yes, please go ahead, the questions are below. If there are any doubts about seeing through the illusion of "I", we can have a look at them first, there's no any urgency to get you "confirmed" on my part.

1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? how about self, is there anything that is separate from everything else?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

3) How does it feel to see this? describe in detail.

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.

5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?

Please, answer in detail. I will show your answers to other guides, and they may have further questions.
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Goosh
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Re: Goosh... let's do your work here.

Postby Goosh » Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:22 am

Kate, wow, quite a sudden change of tone in your writing. Do you feel that you are ready to answer the final questions of LU?

If yes, please go ahead, the questions are below. If there are any doubts about seeing through the illusion of "I", we can have a look at them first, there's no any urgency to get you "confirmed" on my part.

1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?

When I focus in on the place where I was, I find an ecstatic absence. I wonder if this will go?
Right now there is no 'me' despite familiar sensations that used to be connected with my 'self'. Sensations inside my body.

Was there ever?

No, not in reality! But I think I remember creating ME. I also remember creating imaginary friends and angels and fairies....

how about self, is there anything that is separate from everything else?

No, it is rather arbitary that I should feel so propriatorial about the body but not about the air that surrounds it and is totally essential for its survival or not! . . .but I do realise that others feel separate from me and see me as a distinct entity.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

The illusion of separate self is an idea that we develop as very young children. But it is an illusion, a pretence, a shared imagination. We begin as part of our mothers body. Once born we are still feeding from our mothers. But I reckon it is this separation at birth that jolts the whole process into action. We imagine our mother as we look to see where she has gone to, and so we can recognise her..... Then this amazing mind starts to imagine all sorts of things. I think I can even remember some of that. Fairies, god, angels, imaginary friends and imaginary pets, our selves as beings who can fly, our selves as heroines, but mainly our selves as reflected in the eyes of our parents and teachers.

Many of our imaginations are debunked by people around us... and as we grow up and start to be more analytical. But our selves as seen by our parents, teachers and friends, stays with us and we hang on to this as our identity. Its a case of 'The Emperors new clothes' Everyone else thinks we are so and so , so despite the fact that we have our doubts, we are going to do all we can to bolster this image in other people's eyes. By doing this we can persuade ourselves that it is real or rather, I is real.

3) How does it feel to see this? describe in detail.

It feels wonderfully freeing. Contrary to what one might have thought, it feels much more secure to know I does not exist in reality, because what is,is, and it cant be taken away or debunked as imaginations can. No need to hang on to this defensively as I have in the past for my 'beliefs'.

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.

I might not try and explain if they were just curious. I haven 't told anyone yet. But if it was more than idle curiosity, I might say that the key thing I have now understood is that my SELF is just an imagination, and that knowing this is the most fundamentally liberating understanding I have ever had!

5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?

It was gradual. . . one toe in and then out. . . it took a while to make the plunge . . and then I realised that there is absolutely nothing to be fearful of.... it is the most totally safe place to be, because nothing can take you away from it. It is the only reality there is. Completely blissful, normal, natural !

The seeing has happened a few times in my life, but I have never had a clear logical explanation, so have not been able to maintain the awareness. So when away from the experience, it has always seemed like it is a rare state of mind that I desparately aspired to. So my biggest fear was that I would loose it.

Since doing LU, I have been able to make a regular personal investigation. When sitting with my ipad in the quiet of my bedroom, focusing on immediate sensory experience, I have had quite a few blissful times. But then I resumed the mind chatter during the day.

Then you suggested that I might be caught up in my own illusion when at work.... You said to bring the Truth into all areas of my life.
I think that was the little push I needed.

I knew it was right but didn't want to let go. . . And now I have! There is now quietness and spaciousness ... Bliss!


Please, answer in detail. I will show your answers to other guides, and they may have further questions.

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Goosh
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Re: Goosh... let's do your work here.

Postby Goosh » Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:15 pm

Sorry last post was rather confusing as I included yours. I wrote this post yesterday evening.
Here are the answers to your questions.


1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?

When I focus in on the place where I was, I find an ecstatic absence. I wonder if this will go?
Right now there is no 'me' despite familiar sensations that used to be connected with my 'self'. Sensations inside my body.

Was there ever?

No, not in reality! But I think I remember creating ME. I also remember creating imaginary friends and angels and fairies....

how about self, is there anything that is separate from everything else?

No, it is rather arbitary that I should feel so propriatorial about the body but not about the air that surrounds it and is totally essential for its survival or not! . . .but I do realise that others feel separate from me and see me as a distinct entity.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

The illusion of separate self is an idea that we develop as very young children. But it is an illusion, a pretence, a shared imagination. We begin as part of our mothers body. Once born we are still feeding from our mothers. But I reckon it is this separation at birth that jolts the whole process into action. We imagine our mother as we look to see where she has gone to, and so we can recognise her..... Then this amazing mind starts to imagine all sorts of things. I think I can even remember some of that. Fairies, god, angels, imaginary friends and imaginary pets, our selves as beings who can fly, our selves as heroines, but mainly our selves as reflected in the eyes of our parents and teachers.

Many of our imaginations are debunked by people around us... and as we grow up and start to be more analytical. But our selves as seen by our parents, teachers and friends, stays with us and we hang on to this as our identity. Its a case of 'The Emperors new clothes' Everyone else thinks we are so and so , so despite the fact that we have our doubts, we are going to do all we can to bolster this image in other people's eyes. By doing this we can persuade ourselves that it is real or rather, I is real.

3) How does it feel to see this? describe in detail.

It feels wonderfully freeing. Contrary to what one might have thought, it feels much more secure to know I does not exist in reality, because what is,is, and it cant be taken away or debunked as imaginations can. No need to hang on to this defensively as I have in the past for my 'beliefs'.

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.

I might not try and explain if they were just curious. I haven 't told anyone yet. But if it was more than idle curiosity, I might say that the key thing I have now understood is that my SELF is just an imagination, and that knowing this is the most fundamentally liberating understanding I have ever had!

5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?

It was gradual. . . one toe in and then out. . . it took a while to make the plunge . . and then I realised that there is absolutely nothing to be fearful of.... it is the most totally safe place to be, because nothing can take you away from it. It is the only reality there is. Completely blissful, normal, natural !

The seeing has happened a few times in my life, but I have never had a clear logical explanation, so have not been able to maintain the awareness. So when away from the experience, it has always seemed like it is a rare state of mind that I desparately aspired to. So my biggest fear was that I would loose it.

Since doing LU, I have been able to make a regular personal investigation. When sitting with my ipad in the quiet of my bedroom, focusing on immediate sensory experience, I have had quite a few blissful times. But then I resumed the mind chatter during the day.

Then you suggested that I might be caught up in my own illusion when at work.... You said to bring the Truth into all areas of my life.
I think that was the little push I needed.

I knew it was right but didn't want to let go. . . And now I have! There is now quietness and peace.
................................................................................................................................................

A day later and I reflect on my answers of last night. Is this it? I had a night of dreams followed by a day of busy -ness. Why did the peace and spaciousness of yesterday evening elude me?
When will I be able to stay in that truthful consciousness?
Right now I cannot find my self anywhere. As I sit and write this, the spaciousness returns. What a massive relief.

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mag
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Re: Goosh... let's do your work here.

Postby mag » Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:22 pm

Thanks Kate! I am waiting now comments from the other guides.
___________________________
Self-inquiry in Finland:
http://itsekyselijat.blogspot.fi/


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