Goosh... let's do your work here.

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Goosh
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Re: Goosh... let's do your work here.

Postby Goosh » Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:28 pm

thoughts think thoughts....
It is difficult to see where they come from.... because I am unconsciously in them ...... until there is awareness of the thought being a thought... then it vapourises.....pops like a bubble.
My eperience is then that I almost actively search for another thought to jump in to.
I dont want to do this but I never the less do.

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mag
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Re: Goosh... let's do your work here.

Postby mag » Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:46 am

Let's do a second exercise.

Relax into 360 degree reception of sensory data around you: what you see, smell, hear, taste and feel against your body. For example: feet feel warm with some pressure against them, fingers feel plastic keyboard, armchair felt against back, etc. Lose yourself so that only sensations remain. Listen to the noise of fridge, intensively like never before. Let the mind register everything, but relax from the need to label anything as "a thing".

If you do previous exercise well enough, you will end up in a very relaxed state of being where there is no identity of [your name] present. You are relaxed from the "I" thought. Then you can notice how "I" thoughts start to come back, but don't believe those thoughts, just stay relaxed and look at them. Now tell me from your own direct experience:

Are you able to find Goosh anywhere? Sensations happen, mind registers everything, but is Goosh anywhere?

There will be a sense of aliveness or I-am-ness, but there's nothing personal about that. You can trust that aliveness, it's like your anchor to authentic life.

The exercise 'works' everytime a person does it sincerely. There is a subtle change of tone afterwards. After a glimpse into what is real we just need to tackle the identification mechanism, believing "I" thoughts. And soon after, belief in "I" is gone forever. Freedom.
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Goosh
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Re: Goosh... let's do your work here.

Postby Goosh » Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:04 am

I have been doing the exercise you suggest. Last night, tonight,....... also off and on for years previously.... I find myself waiting at a theshhold .... I long to be free of self!
.. and right now,
......i feel the cold screen against my finger, hear the noise of distant trains, cars.... the labels leap in after the noicing.... like an over eager friend.

Goosh (actually call me Kate, as thats my name) is always trying to push in but I recognise that the experience is nothing to do with her. She is a figment of the imagination... I know that but still the imagination lingers. Help me!

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mag
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Re: Goosh... let's do your work here.

Postby mag » Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:57 pm

Does your current and immediate experience, while sitting there, consist of anything other than sense perceptions (around the body and from the body) and thoughts? Are you able to find any selfhood from sense perceptions or thoughts? What makes thoughts your thoughts?
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Goosh
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Re: Goosh... let's do your work here.

Postby Goosh » Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:45 pm

I wish I could say that I didn't.......... but if I am to be quite honest re what I experience right now
ie. sense perceptions of my body .... They give me a feeling of myself.
Thoughts do too.
They are my thoughts because they have my character and are the type of thoughts I think.
No I cant find me but there is a me shaped space.
So do I believe there is a ME?
Oh dear, back to square one!

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Re: Goosh... let's do your work here.

Postby mag » Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:25 pm

If you zoom into sense perceptions of the body, can you find a name tag "Kate" anywhere?

You write: "thoughts I think". Are you sure that you think thoughts? Can you tell me from where thoughts appear and where they disappear? If I say "a pink elephant", can you avoid the appearance of a thought "a pink elephant" and seeing an image of a pink elephant in your mind?
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Goosh
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Re: Goosh... let's do your work here.

Postby Goosh » Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:14 pm

When I focus on my thoughts they go transparent and misty....
Are they MY thoughts?
Thoughts only seem to exist when they belong... as soon as I step out of the MY, I, ME, the thoughts seem to vapourise.
I am sitting here listening to sounds, feeling, looking..... feeling very content. No there is no name tag, Kate. But hot on the heels of the experience comes the possession....
....what I hear is my husband helping my daughter with her job application, feeling my belly full of delicious food cooked by my husband, sitting in MY chair in MY kitchen, in MY house..... feelings of well being and contentment .... MY contentment.... I am so lucky... so fortunate....ME, Kate!

Are these MY thoughts?... They seem to be overwhelmingly MINE.
Are these feelings MY feelings? My thoughts think they are.
But once I notice thoughts, rather than Kate is thinking her thoughts, they go misty....

Your 'pink elephant' is something I try and comprehend in order to understand your communication, but I did not immediately picture a pink elephant. Kate thought 'mag is saying pink elephant to give me a fantasy image, perhaps I might visualise it in order to understand her point.'

Where do thoughts come from? They seem to mainly come from my ME concept continuum. They disappear into another thought or into nothing when I just watch.


So my analysis is that it is difficult to think at all without a ME to hook it all on.

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Goosh
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Re: Goosh... let's do your work here.

Postby Goosh » Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:38 pm

I dont believe in ME as a reality. ME is a figment of my imagination. It is useful or useless as a hook for thoughts, but I really truly would like to drop this fantasy, as I would love to experience without the me cloud fogging my view, and also it would allow me a very welcome break from my thought continuum.

see tea .....drink tea.... no thought..... ah I am now thinking about drinking tea.
see screen write on screen no thought.... blinking cursor..... new word.... no thought? .... new.... so what now?
no face... no Kate.... door opening.... door... footsteps upstairs.... fridge hums.... atmosphere whistles... train sounds....body aches... moves....hmmm......welcome break.

Phew. . . thats better.

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Re: Goosh... let's do your work here.

Postby mag » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:38 am

Hi Kate, I will travel today to other location and will reply you once settled there. Keep looking and investigating.
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Goosh
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Re: Goosh... let's do your work here.

Postby Goosh » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:35 pm

Days are rushing by... getting older and closer to the day when this thought continuum... Me...I.... Mine.....finally goes. I love the glimpses of me-less-ness. Sitting here with no head! Just being....

Not sure how it would work with no sense of ME at all?
At work, teaching Autistic youngsters, I help them develop the sense of 'me'....It seems v important that they should have this in order to function in the world! Is that odd to you?
In my textiles course we are creating art work to express our selves... our individuality! Is that strange?
From your enlightened perspective what 's this about?

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mag
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Re: Goosh... let's do your work here.

Postby mag » Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:25 pm

Hi Kate,

So, in our dialogue we have examined, among other things: (1) sensory experiences, (2) how thoughts appear, and the (3) nature of "I"-thought.

While sitting there, are you able to get a sense of being space or a container that folds all sense perceptions and thoughts within? So, if your current experience is a sum of sensory perceptions and some stories around imaginary center of "I" that cannot found anywhere in body or thoughts, so what is the evidence that you exist as a personal being? If you would not believe in the "I" thought and all associated thoughts, what would remain, as explained in your immediate experience while sitting there?
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Goosh
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Re: Goosh... let's do your work here.

Postby Goosh » Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:15 pm

So, if your current experience is a sum of sensory perceptions and some stories around imaginary center of "I" that cannot found anywhere in body or thoughts, so what is the evidence that you exist as a personal being?
There is no evidence.
I completely accept that I do not in any physical or sensory way exist.... but then neither does the concept of 2 or 3 or completion or acceptance or liberation or any other concept.
... but there is a lightness that comes through understanding this.
If you would not believe in the "I" thought and all associated thoughts, what would remain, as explained in your immediate experience while sitting there?
What remains is the cold of the ipad screen, the tapping, the symphonic tinkle and whistle of silence, the pulsing, almost living images of drawers, chair, book spines.
But I dont think I am Liberated.... I am fully aware that if I was not in such a peaceful situation... eg if someone confronted me... if my husband says something unloving..... I spring to the defense of this imaginary I.
Why is this?

How do I move from this to where you are?

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mag
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Re: Goosh... let's do your work here.

Postby mag » Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:38 am

But I dont think I am Liberated.... I am fully aware that if I was not in such a peaceful situation... eg if someone confronted me... if my husband says something unloving..... I spring to the defense of this imaginary I.
Why is this?
Well, if you feel the need to defend "I", it means that you still believe in reality of "I". You haven't seen its illusion yet. You believe that you are a separate entity that can be threatened psychologically or otherwise by other separate entities. In the end it comes to the question: How much power you want to give to one thought, the "I" one? When in social situations, like with your husband, can you notice how thoughts appear, how the "I" thought appears before defensiveness steps in? If you can catch the "I" -thought, then there will be no thought of "other", and you'll be free of emotional turmoils that follow from believing in them.
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Goosh
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Re: Goosh... let's do your work here.

Postby Goosh » Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:49 am

Thanks for that. I wait excitedly for a challenge . . .
Will I be able to see my I ness or will I just get totally involved. I'll let you know.
Kate

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Goosh
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Re: Goosh... let's do your work here.

Postby Goosh » Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:01 pm

.....still right in it! ..... speeding through the day. . . no time for reflection!
Challenges came but because it was 'at work ', I felt I had to respond as teacher Kate. I did not give myself a moment to watch my reaction.
I shall try again tomorrow.


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