Goosh... let's do your work here.

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mag
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Goosh... let's do your work here.

Postby mag » Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:00 am

Goosh, just a few things before we get started:
  • I will be making questions to you and expect you to answer honestly based on your immediate experience. Stories and philosophies are nice, but not needed here :)
  • We both commit to writing at least one message per day unless otherwise informed.
  • You can leave all other materials and practices for the duration of this dialogue
Do these expectations sound like you would be able to commit to them?

When making questions to you, I will mostly look at your last reply because it's up-to-date reflection of where you are at the moment. For this reason, don't bother if I happen to ask same questions several times or ask you to do same exercises again.

I would like to know your expectations about liberation. What would change in your life?

There is nothing personal in LIFE. What is the evidence in your direct experience that you exist as a personal being?
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Re: Goosh... let's do your work here.

Postby Goosh » Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:15 pm

Dear Mag,
Sorry I wrote a long post last night then lost it .... so here goes... again!
My expectations:
..to be able to experience my life without the annoying me/personality filtering everything.
...to stop searching and to be still and appreciate while I am still here.
...to be able to look and see through the illusion when I find myself lost.
... to move a bit closer to a selfless state.

I have had experiences of selflessness but still an annoying ME like an embarassing relative or parasite keeps manifesting on my shoulder/ sits on my head. This ME/I believes ME/I exist as a personal being:
... because my friends tell ME what I am like, and I have to admit I get a sneaky pride in their appreciation, even though I try and not.
.... I am a teacher and my class listen to me and give ME respect. I like to believe them.
.... sometimes people take a dislike to me and then I get upset, although I try not to.
Help me please! I SO want to be free.
Kate

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Re: Goosh... let's do your work here.

Postby mag » Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:23 pm

Great that you are here to do this work, Kate! Your expectations are OK, and we may leave them for the time being. I may come back to the other things you mentioned a bit later.

But, let's start the Work with the classic LU opening question:

What kind of feelings and thoughts are triggered when I say:

You don't exist and never did.
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Re: Goosh... let's do your work here.

Postby Goosh » Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:53 pm

I find it quite comforting because this is the state I aspire to. I would rather be part of the whole than the self conscious concept I sometimes feel plagued by.

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Re: Goosh... let's do your work here.

Postby Goosh » Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:54 am

...and now I feel frustrated. I am looking for your post. This I that is looking is not fulfilled. The thought of not existing is not enough to fill this yearning.

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Re: Goosh... let's do your work here.

Postby Goosh » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:18 am

in fact the yearning is so uncomfortable that I want to start doing something to take my mind off it. I am sitting in my e arly morning garden and observe the plants that are just there and in a very still way are doing exactly what they should. My cat is nipping about looking at things and seeing if there is anything up to chase. This body is restless too and wants to move things around. My thoughts need to be anchored... but whose thoughts? Alright I am happy to concede THESE thoughts. But surely in the same way as MY cat is THE cat that it is the duty of this person sitting here to feed, so MY thoughts are THE thoughts that are the duty of this person to supervise.
.... And is'nt ME and I just other words for THIS PERSON SITTING HERE?

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Re: Goosh... let's do your work here.

Postby mag » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:39 am

Can you observe how thoughts appear and disappear? Very alertly wait for a thought to appear, and when you notice one, say silently in your mind "blop" (like a soap bubble bursting), step back from the thought (say "it's just a thought, not real"), let the thought dissolve and return to waiting for a next thought. You may do this a practice for the time being.

Can you be aware of two modes of the mind: one that registers everything and the other one that makes stories of things around you, labels them?
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Re: Goosh... let's do your work here.

Postby Goosh » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:55 am

I think my yearning is for your answer....
Its quite a child like need for your communication with me.
... because there is a separation between us
.... or I think there is
Let me retdurn to your question. How do I feel about your statement that I dont exist and never did?
Still feels good.
Do I still need your answer? Yes please although not such a yearning. I think I just want to play with someone who is on the same wavelength.
So there is a feeling of contentment here, at the moment, but I know that once other people wake up and start to challenge me, I will get defensive and put barriers around ME ME...
How shall I deal with that?
I dont know how to stay with this feeling?

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Re: Goosh... let's do your work here.

Postby Goosh » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:59 am

Thank you for your reply. Just to say I wrote my last post before reading it.
I shall do the practice you suggest and then get back to you.

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Re: Goosh... let's do your work here.

Postby Goosh » Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:13 am

When I sit and watch my thoughts come and go I feel peaceful, but it becomes part of my sense of me. There are thoughts of here I am meditating..... I am watching and registering the beautiful atmospheric tinkling silence sound, I find myself savouring my breath, but almost holding it as I am waiting for the pop, the awareness..... I am waiting for an experience like I have had before ......so this is thoughts of my story. My mind has sneakily adopted my search and labelled it MINE. So I am expecting and waiting. It is difficult to wait and expect without having thoughts memories of what I am waiting for.

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Re: Goosh... let's do your work here.

Postby mag » Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:57 am

When I sit and watch my thoughts come and go I feel peaceful, but it becomes part of my sense of me.
Do more of the previous exercise. Looking only at your immediate experience, what makes thoughts that appear in that space - your thoughts?
I am waiting for an experience like I have had before ......so this is thoughts of my story.
If you are waiting for an experience, you will be disappointed. You will not get any. Nor will you anything, you'll just lose your self. How it feels to hear this?
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Re: Goosh... let's do your work here.

Postby Goosh » Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:23 am

When I sit and watch my thoughts come and go I feel peaceful, but it becomes part of my sense of me.
Do more of the previous exercise. Looking only at your immediate experience, what makes thoughts that appear in that space - your thoughts?
At the moment(I have just woken up) there is a running commentary on everything I hear. .... and also comments about what I should write, even how long I should sit for.
What makes those thoughts? They are just popping up unasked for. They feel like they belong to a wild thing who has been allowed to do what it likes all night. I /it feels resentment that it is being watched so closely and brought into check.
Its layer upon layer... like a family..... unruly thoughts..... I notice them...... I notice me noticing them.... I am implying I'll sort these out .... Who is I?. all very muddly....
I find it very difficult to reflect on this ... the more I try the more it vanishes .....
What makes these thoughts? ....hmmm.... yes there is a definite character there. But it is bluffing and pretending it can control something that it cant.
I am waiting for an experience like I have had before ......so this is thoughts of my story.
If you are waiting for an experience, you will be disappointed. You will not get any. Nor will you anything, you'll just lose your self. How it feels to hear this?
You are right... I do not get any experience with this expecting.
Back to previous comments. I think I do now have a clear sense of me. It wants to stay. It will bluff anything, do whatever jst to be left to be.... It doesn't believe it will have to go.

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Re: Goosh... let's do your work here.

Postby Goosh » Sun Sep 16, 2012 1:07 pm

Sorry the last post was very confusing as I was not using the quote function properly. I shall post again.
You say, 'What makes thoughts that appear, your thoughts'
I suppose they have my character.
(I think I'm more attached to ME than I realised.)
When I watch attentively to see my thoughts, they go very quiet. Right now just touching ipad. Waiting and watching. Little thought that I am not using word I. Is this a ME decision... most probably.... I'm sneaky like that...... ME has gone very hazy.... I cant locate it....
Are these thoughts MY thoughts?
I am becoming aware of a pain in my eye. Shall I get a Nurofen? Is this a ploy to avoid being anihalated?
Got the Nurofen.
Are these thoughts MY thoughts?
I am assuming all thoughts are MY thoughts because they happen in MY head.
I am leaving the post now and will continue to reflect during the day.
Thankyou for agreeing to be my guide. I hope to rejoin you tomorrow.

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Re: Goosh... let's do your work here.

Postby mag » Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:55 pm

I am assuming all thoughts are MY thoughts because they happen in MY head.
In your direct experience, is there a head? Some sensations in the skull, but a head?

What is that which puts labels "MY" on 'thoughts' and 'head'?

Please, report me from where thoughts come and where they go without using concepts like head or mind.

Continue following and inform me about your progress (do you get a feeling that no any thought sticks to you? You being teflon-like.):
Can you observe how thoughts appear and disappear? Very alertly wait for a thought to appear, and when you notice one, say silently in your mind "blop" (like a soap bubble bursting), step back from the thought (say "it's just a thought, not real"), let the thought dissolve and return to waiting for a next thought. You may do this a practice for the time being.
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http://itsekyselijat.blogspot.fi/

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Goosh
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Re: Goosh... let's do your work here.

Postby Goosh » Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:40 am

OK.. . no observable head. . . in fact a clear shiny absence!
.. and now I feel more detached. MY thoughts, MY head .... I'm not seeing it that way at the moment.
Thoughts just loom up in a very misty way and waft off similarly. Without MY HEAD they dont appear so stuck.
. . yes like teflon.
I shall do the 'blop' practice and report back tomorrow.


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