Richard511, this is your thread

This is a read-only part of the forum. All threads where seeing happens are stored here and come from this forum, the Facebook guiding area and various LU blogs. The complete list, sorted by guide, contains all links. The archives include threads of those that came to LU already seeing as well.
User avatar
nonaparry
Posts: 1111
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:55 pm
Location: London, England

Re: Richard511, this is your thread

Postby nonaparry » Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:53 am

Hi Richard!

It sounds like the exercises were helpful.
As I focused on different areas of the head, and did not find 'me' anywhere.
No—there is no 'you' to find!
There is no Richard to touch.
No—there is no Richard at all. "Richard" is a label only. It is an empty label, it does not point to anything but a thought. Labels "arm", "chin", "ear", "nose" all point to something Real. Label "Richard" does not. Really Look! LOOK at label here on the screen and SEE that it only points to other thoughts about a "Richard"; it doesn't point to a Richard in reality at all.

Let me know how the morning's exercises go and I'll give you more if you want or need them.

love
Nona
"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains—however improbable—must be the truth." ~ Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

User avatar
Richard511
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:43 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA / US

Re: Richard511, this is your thread

Postby Richard511 » Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:45 am

Let me know how the morning's exercises go and I'll give you more if you want or need them.
Hi Nona,

OK, so the exercises continue to be helpful. I continue to try to point to 'me' or touch 'Richard', and have not done either. Similar thoughts as before - 'there is no Richard to touch, no me to point to...' I look to you for next steps.

Many thanks,
love,
richard

User avatar
nonaparry
Posts: 1111
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:55 pm
Location: London, England

Re: Richard511, this is your thread

Postby nonaparry » Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:31 am

Greetings, dear Richard!
'there is no Richard to touch, no me to point to...' I look to you for next steps.
I have noticed a shift in perspective. Have you? Have you seen through the illusion that there is a separate Richard from all of Life?

Is there anything scary here at all? Is there in fact "a void somewhere without self"?

In The Work terms, who are you without the reliance on separation to tell you who you are? Are you Okay with that?

If you are Clear, we will move to completion; if not Clear, tell me where the uncertainty or obstacle lies.

love
Nona
"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains—however improbable—must be the truth." ~ Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

User avatar
Richard511
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:43 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA / US

Re: Richard511, this is your thread

Postby Richard511 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:57 am

Hello my dear friend Nona!!!
I have noticed a shift in perspective. Have you?
There is a shift in perspective that has progressed since we first started working together. There is more clarity, less story, and no caveats as it was at first.

Have you seen through the illusion that there is a separate Richard from all of Life?
There is a lack of clarity on that matter, although I would say that there is a different and shifting perspective. One noticeable example is my new found enjoyment of going outside for no reason at all. Sometimes the reaction is something like, ‘wow, this is really beautiful out here!’. Other times, I just go outside and look around, really nothing more.
Is there anything scary here at all? Is there in fact "a void somewhere without self"?
There is resistance. I have been very, very tired and don't want to do much of anything at all. There has been a lot of avoidance behavior related to this work - finding ways to be distracted. In the spirit of complete honesty, what comes up appears to be a dual fear of completing the work and not being able to complete it. On the completion side, what's next. I do know logically, carry water, chop wood. Get it, but perhaps invested in striving for a goal instead of actually reaching it? On the flip side, there is this fear that I won't 'get it'. I will be the first person in the history of liberationunleashed.com to not get it.
In The Work terms, who are you without the reliance on separation to tell you who you are? Are you Okay with that?
Still working on an answer.
If you are Clear, we will move to completion; if not Clear, tell me where the uncertainty or obstacle lies.

The obstacle is uncertainty. I simply don't know where 'I' am. (I realize what I just wrote... ; ) ). There is no Richard separate from reality; and yet there is not 1000% clarity/certainly of this. I know there is a binary state: seeing through the illusion of a separate self, or not. The experience at the moment appears like living in neither. 'Mostly' there, but still some resistance to completely letting go.

with gratitude,
love,
richard

User avatar
nonaparry
Posts: 1111
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:55 pm
Location: London, England

Re: Richard511, this is your thread

Postby nonaparry » Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:29 am

Hello dear Richard!
There is resistance. I have been very, very tired and don't want to do much of anything at all. There has been a lot of avoidance behavior related to this work - finding ways to be distracted.
And what is being protected here? Ask the resistance what it is resisting, the avoidance what it is avoiding. LOOK the fear in the face and ask it what it's protecting.
There is no self to protect. None that needs protection.
what comes up appears to be a dual fear of completing the work and not being able to complete it.
Um. You don't get a choice. Completion or non-completion simply happens. There is no 'you' to complete it at all.
On the completion side, what's next. I do know logically, carry water, chop wood. Get it, but perhaps invested in striving for a goal instead of actually reaching it?
Actually, carrying water, chopping wood happen without any you at all to do them. And yes, sometimes investment in seeking is an obstacle to finding. If one has been a seeker for 30 or 40 years, what does one do when there is nothing more to seek?
We have aftercare groups where liberated can discuss their experiences, ask questions, annoy each other... Many find that while there is no seeking, deepening or integration seem to occur.
On the flip side, there is this fear that I won't 'get it'. I will be the first person in the history of liberationunleashed.com to not get it.
No one gets it. Ever. There is no 'you' to get it. Don't look at my finger; look at the moon the finger is pointing to!!
In The Work terms, who are you without the reliance on separation to tell you who you are? Are you Okay with that?
Still working on an answer.
Don't work on it; let the answer come. It's there.
The obstacle is uncertainty. I simply don't know where 'I' am. (I realize what I just wrote... ; )
Sweetheart. There is no you anywhere at all. None. Now you know where "I" is—Nowhere. Look.
Look, point, touch, locate the "I"—it's nowhere. How? It's only a thought. A label. I, me, mine, are merely linguistic conventions; they have no content in reality.
There is no Richard separate from reality; and yet there is not 1000% clarity/certainly of this.
That is because you have not yet directly experienced it. New exercise: check if there is a 'running commentary' apparently in the mind while real life is being experienced. Is there languaging happening describing what is being experienced? A play-by-play commentary, heard in the mind? If so, describe it in detail. If not, describe in detail how Richard "knows" what is happening "to him".
I know there is a binary state: seeing through the illusion of a separate self, or not.
Oh yeah? How do you know that? Do you think seeing through the illusion is on a switch? Sorry. What other knowledge or expectations are you bringing to obscure seeing this?
There is mental understanding that there is no self at all; you have that. Now you need to stop Thinking about LOOKing and actually LOOK. Look with the eyes in your head. Searching for self has turned up nothing. Why? because self is a fiction, same as Batman or Santa.
If I asked you to look for Batman or Santa, you wouldn't bother; you know they are fiction, imaginary. Same with self. And when you SEE it, you will know it for always, same as with Batman or Santa. You don't believe in Santa, then disbelieve, and then believe again.
The experience at the moment appears like living in neither.
Experience doesn't "appear" like anything. Experience is the sensations as they happen. The "appearance" that sensation is like something or other is Thought. Really. Check it!
You're thinking about something; now switch your focus to looking at and feeling your feet. Feel intensely the sensations of your feet where they are, whether on a floor or couch or footstool. Can you feel where your feet end and your shoes or socks begin? While you were checking, was any thought happening at all? Check it.

much love
Nona
"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains—however improbable—must be the truth." ~ Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

User avatar
Richard511
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:43 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA / US

Re: Richard511, this is your thread

Postby Richard511 » Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:25 am

Hi Nona!!

The latest… ; )
And what is being protected here? Ask the resistance what it is resisting, the avoidance what it is avoiding. LOOK the fear in the face and ask it what it's protecting. There is no self to protect. None that needs protection
My initial answer again was related to ‘thinking’, and had a list of fears that could be summed up by saying fear was protecting self, meaning fear was protecting nothing.

After LOOKING, the realization came that fear is not at all real. I cannot see it or touch it. Fear is just a thought, it cannot be seen, it protects absolutely nothing. (hey, after you capitalized LOOK about 100 times, it eventually sunk in that it would do well for LOOKING to occur. ; )
New exercise: check if there is a 'running commentary' apparently in the mind while real life is being experienced. Is there languaging happening describing what is being experienced? A play-by-play commentary, heard in the mind? If so, describe it in detail.
Yes…. Wow… you are definitely in my head Nona!

In short, there is this ‘interpreter’ telling ‘me’ what is going on. Throwing lots of labels on things. Looking at hands – ‘ you are looking at your hands – then the labels about the hands pop in; tanned, wide, etc. There is possession of the hands, ie: ‘my’ hands; not just hands…

When driving, the interpreter/intermediary talks about ‘my’ driving. ‘You’ are too close to the car in front of you. Or, hey, better watch out for turning car, or can you believe what that guy just did?

There is also a new ongoing commentary / checking in related to this work. Ie: something like ‘OK, have you seen though the illusion yet?’. Or certainly ongoing commentary when working on the questions/exercises provided. ‘OK, we’re looking for fear now…, ok, where is it?’ kind of commentary.

thank you!
love,
richard

User avatar
nonaparry
Posts: 1111
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:55 pm
Location: London, England

Re: Richard511, this is your thread

Postby nonaparry » Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:02 am

Hi Richard! Good work!!
After LOOKING, the realization came that fear is not at all real. I cannot see it or touch it. Fear is just a thought, it cannot be seen, it protects absolutely nothing.
Now LOOK and see how what you wrote about the label "fear" is also true of the label "self". Self is a thought; you can't find it because it isn't real. LOOK!
hey, after you capitalized LOOK about 100 times, it eventually sunk in that it would do well for LOOKING to occur. ; )
That's how it happened with me, too. I kept Thinking when I was meant to be Looking!
LOOKing is focusing on our Direct Experience.
In short, there is this ‘interpreter’ telling ‘me’ what is going on.
Good.
New exercise. Engage in some activity you can completely focus on — focus on the experience as it is happening. Notice that as you move from focus-on-sensation to thought, the commentary is actually "out of sync" with the activity; the description that appears to be telling 'you' what is happening in the moment is actually occurring after the event. Life is just happening, and then mind builds a 'you' to imagine it is living life.
Check it! The commentary ‘OK, have you seen though the illusion yet?’ is itself the illusion. LOOK! Mind is inventing a "you" while you're looking!

love
Nona
"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains—however improbable—must be the truth." ~ Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

User avatar
Richard511
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:43 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA / US

Re: Richard511, this is your thread

Postby Richard511 » Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:40 pm

Hi Nona!
Now LOOK and see how what you wrote about the label "fear" is also true of the label "self". Self is a thought; you can't find it because it isn't real. LOOK!
I am LOOKing, definitely not finding any self. Past that, confusion remains. When I LOOKed for fear, there is a knowing (perhaps ‘sense’), that fear is just a thought, not real. No fear is simply truth. The same cannot be said for self yet. There is not that same sense of knowing that there is no self. There is experience of not seeing self, but not a knowing.
Good.
New exercise. Engage in some activity you can completely focus on — focus on the experience as it is happening. Notice that as you move from focus-on-sensation to thought, the commentary is actually "out of sync" with the activity; the description that appears to be telling 'you' what is happening in the moment is actually occurring after the event.
When driving, I notice the commentary being ‘out of sync’ as you describe. So, a few examples are:

1) When watching a traffic light turn a different color, there is awareness of this happening in the field of vision; then there is a voice afterward saying, ‘the light turned green’.
2) When someone made a turn closely in front of me, there was a momentary physical response to the stimulus; and then in a fraction of a second later, when the immediate threat was gone, the labeling of that event. Scary, ‘they should have waited’, etc.

Thank you dear Nona!
love,
richard

User avatar
nonaparry
Posts: 1111
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:55 pm
Location: London, England

Re: Richard511, this is your thread

Postby nonaparry » Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:50 am

Hi Richard!

You LOOKed and saw that fear is just a thought; then you slipped back into Thinking:
There is not that same sense of knowing that there is no self. There is experience of not seeing self, but not a knowing.
The sense of knowing you are seeking is thought. It's not a sensation at all. Sensations are sight, sound, touch, taste, smell.

What do you expect is going to happen when you have SEEN that there is no self anywhere; that 'self' is only a label that doesn't point to anything REAL?
I ask for your hidden expectation, because you said
There is experience of not seeing self
So what DO you see? What do you see with the eyes in your head, Richard? Just look at your life as you experience it now. What are you seeing? Check your sensations.

Seeing through the illusion that we are a separate self in control of a personal slice of Life is just SEEing Life as it is in Reality. It doesn't take any special skill. There's nothing to figure out or understand. It only takes Stopping Thinking (by shifting focus to direct experience through sensation) and looking at Reality as it is.

There is no self in reality. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada. 'Self' is a label and nothing more. Stop thinking. LOOK at life and SEE!

love
Nona
"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains—however improbable—must be the truth." ~ Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

User avatar
Richard511
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:43 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA / US

Re: Richard511, this is your thread

Postby Richard511 » Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:29 am

Hello dear Nona!
So what DO you see? What do you see with the eyes in your head, Richard? Just look at your life as you experience it now. What are you seeing? Check your sensations.
When you say to check my sensations, I, in earnest attempt to do just as you prescribe. When LOOKing, there is very little experience of sensation; there is a general calmness, some thought, and not much else. I am finding it very difficult to respond fully/accurately to your question. Below are some observations/thoughts/description of experiences (call it what you will); it’s what I have to share right now…

- Life is happening without ‘me’. It goes on all the time. LOOKing is observation of Life as it is.

- There is some sensation of complete separateness from surroundings, and in another way, complete integration. The separateness a sense of detached observing; an independent observer of Life. The feeling of complete integration seems to come most readily while outside and being a part of surroundings.

- Thoughts still arise without a ‘me’, and require no interpretation by a ‘me’

- The hand attached to the arm attached to this body moves on command, without ‘me’.

- When LOOKing occurs, there appears to be a shift in perspective. Ie: sight comes from a different ‘place’.

Before, there was ‘fighting’ with thought. Anytime a thought came while LOOKing, there was resistance, which was very disruptive. Now, thoughts (mostly) just are and there is a better flow.

Be well Nona,
Love,
Richard

User avatar
nonaparry
Posts: 1111
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:55 pm
Location: London, England

Re: Richard511, this is your thread

Postby nonaparry » Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:24 am

Dear Richard,
When LOOKing, there is very little experience of sensation
Do you notice that what is seen is not separate from seeing; what is heard is not separate from hearing? Check it. In the instant of the sensation/experience, is there anything outside of the experience that is experiencing it?

Is the
independent observer of Life
'you'? Or is Life simply observing itself through Richard? Check it!
Before, there was ‘fighting’ with thought. Anytime a thought came while LOOKing, there was resistance, which was very disruptive. Now, thoughts (mostly) just are and there is a better flow.
Thoughts arise; they pass. New thoughts come. The thoughts themselves are meaningless.
The sense of knowing you are seeking is thought. It's not a sensation at all. Sensations are sight, sound, touch, taste, smell.

What do you expect is going to happen when you have SEEN that there is no self anywhere; that 'self' is only a label that doesn't point to anything REAL?
What, if anything, has you stuck?

Love
Nona
"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains—however improbable—must be the truth." ~ Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

User avatar
Richard511
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:43 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA / US

Re: Richard511, this is your thread

Postby Richard511 » Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:57 pm

Hello Dear Nona,

It has been a while since I last wrote, and apologize for not honoring the agreement for more frequent communication.

Want to share life experiences below with you; they appear to point to direct seeing; and would like your feedback, final clarifying questions if you see fit.

- I am experiencing a deep sense of passion and energy for hobbies/activities I had given up and lost interest in previously
- I am thoroughly enjoying music and again have renewed passion – and there is this certain feeling of being completely into the music. Loving all kinds of music and absolutely feeling the spirit in the music.
- The ‘translator’ telling ‘me’ what is going on is not noticeable; life activities are simply experienced.
- There is a heightened awareness of the body’s immediate environment
- There is an experience of joy and happiness and being part of the world when out of doors. It can be as simple as walking to the car, playing with the kids outside, etc. It occurs spontaneously and pretty much every time
- There is better focus on what others are saying.
- When I look in the mirror, prior harsh judgment is now ‘just is’ or at most, labels are positive, pleasant acceptance.
- Definitely losing sense of ‘time’

Everything is not some bed of roses, and there is no expectation that direct seeing would bring that; but do feel the need to mention it here. Wherever ‘Richard’ is in this process there are also challenges, some of them new. With a new awareness, a deeper feeling state, things that were outside of awareness before are now in awareness. As such, there are occasions of low energy and even sadness that mix with new found excitement and passion.

I look forward to your response!

Much love,
Richard

User avatar
nonaparry
Posts: 1111
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:55 pm
Location: London, England

Re: Richard511, this is your thread

Postby nonaparry » Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:09 pm

Hello Dear Richard,

Has your perspective shifted? That's all Liberation is: a tiny shift in Perspective that changes nothing except the experience of everything.

Is there any "you", any "I", "me" in Reality at all? Any separate Richard that is "in control" of some personal slice of Life?

Let me know.
love
Nona
"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains—however improbable—must be the truth." ~ Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

User avatar
Richard511
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:43 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA / US

Re: Richard511, this is your thread

Postby Richard511 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:02 pm

Hi Nona!
Has your perspective shifted? That's all Liberation is: a tiny shift in Perspective that changes nothing except the experience of everything.
Yes, there is a different perspective and it is a tiny shift. There is no 'intermediary' or 'translator' telling 'me' what is going on. There is simply the experiencing of life. In my own words, direct experience means there is nothing between life and the entity experiencing it. No interpretation, labels, judgment required. I feel as though I am immersed in life to a much deeper extent than ever before. Previously, I might have described living life like watching TV. Now, life is an immersive experience that touches all senses. There appears to be a very literal shift in how things are physically seen.

Although there has been some feeling of guilt for taking long periods of time to respond back to your questions, there is a realization now that this extra time was absolutely perfect and required. With the benefit of hindsight, I see that thought and expectation were really getting in the way of what had already occurred – seeing through the illusion. By stepping back and allowing life to simply be lived, it is now clear that perspective had shifted, and a great many things have changed, which I shared in the last post.
Is there any "you", any "I", "me" in Reality at all? Any separate Richard that is "in control" of some personal slice of Life?
There is no separate Richard. Before beginning this journey, there was a thought of control that extended past even ‘Richard’ and well into every aspect of life to a near belief that ‘Richard’ could control everything, including other drivers in traffic, irritating neighbors, etc. Now, everything simply happens, it is experienced directly and without interpretation. There is a new found understanding/appreciation for people/events/occurrences, there is a sense of flow, far fewer labels; and little/no energy applied to labels even when they present. With this acceptance of events comes new understanding, creativity, and a certain agility that I see is now possible given this new perspective.


Much love and gratitude,
Richard

User avatar
nonaparry
Posts: 1111
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:55 pm
Location: London, England

Re: Richard511, this is your thread

Postby nonaparry » Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:01 pm

Hi dear Richard,

You sound ready for the Final Questions. Here they are. Take your time, reply clearly and in detail. Other guides will look at your answers for crystal clarity.

1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? how about self, is there anything that is separate from everything else?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

3) How does it feel to see this? describe in detail.

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.

5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?

6) When you say "I", what are you referring to?

7) Is there an experiencer experiencing, or is there only experience? Actually look. Does experience belong to the body, or does the body belong to experience?

8 ) What did you experience at the moment you awoke?

9) Describe your experience in the hours and days following awakening

Thank you for the conversation; it's been enlightening.
love
Nona
"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains—however improbable—must be the truth." ~ Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


Return to “ARCHIVES”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest