ok intellectually stuck ready for guide in 3.2.1..go

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jimw
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Re: ok intellectually stuck ready for guide in 3.2.1..go

Postby jimw » Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:57 pm

Oh i understand! , i can feel, the key turning in my mind set bit by bit.
I am waiting, for the clunk of the lock of the self: to disengage )

Jim, more exercises please , 2 or so for each day please they help greatly
Hi Gary, glad to see that you are having a good look - this is what it is all about. Good stuff.

Watching what happens, how the mind labels / identifies with everything and then builds it up into a little story about an 'I' or a 'me' is vital. The more you do this, the closer you are to 'going through the gateless gate'.

I will give you another couple of little exercises, again in the form of questions for you to answer from direct experience.

Exercise 1: Stop everything for two minutes and listen intently to all sounds that are present. Is there a hearer of sounds, separate from hearing and the heard?

Exercise 2: Look at a small object on a table (a pen, set of key whatever can be held in one hand). Look at it. Now take it and hide it behind your back. Look at the table again. Can you see an absence of pen?

Exercise 3: Look at a cup. It’s real. Even when you aren’t thinking about a cup, it’s still there. Now look at thoughts about the self. When you are not holding the story of “you” in your thoughts, is it still there?

Exercise 4: Next time you eat a meal, consider this - if you had no name, would you still be able to eat the meal ?

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gazzam
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Re: ok intellectually stuck ready for guide in 3.2.1..go

Postby gazzam » Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:29 am

Hi jim
Exercise 1: Stop everything for two minutes and listen intently to all sounds that are present. Is there a hearer of sounds, separate from hearing and the heard?
No there is no hearer of the sounds that i can detect the ears feel like mic's recording everything, i can be focus on one sound and there's a lot more in the back ground that happen to fast for the mind to arise a thought.
very much the same as sight when i am driving.

I have to say Jim, I am starting to feeling a lot more comfortable within.
knowing and seeing , that i don't have to think and worry that there is a me! trying to control everything.
Just the seeing that my body is fully trained to just zipp along by itself breathing, seeing, hearing, making a lunch etc it,s great , its like having a new toy :). ha ha
Exercise 2: Look at a small object on a table (a pen, set of key whatever can be held in one hand). Look at it. Now take it and hide it behind your back. Look at the table again. Can you see an absence of pen?
Well yes from the desk , its behind my back ?
Exercise 3: Look at a cup. It’s real. Even when you aren’t thinking about a cup, it’s still there. Now look at thoughts about the self. When you are not holding the story of “you” in your thoughts, is it still there?
NO! I had/have/need - to think it me into ,existence ! each time, i had/have/needed me !

does that make sense to you ?(sorry about the grammar Jim)
ooohhhh that's deep, reading that back, I cant believe that thought just came up.
Exercise 4: Next time you eat a meal, consider this - if you had no name, would you still be able to eat the meal ?
.

yes yes , as described above is all pre trained in the mind , like breathing , like i don't have to think about scratching an itch or bringing a scratch myself thought into existence it just gets scratched.

I was thinking about what my wife had said to me a long time ago ,while, i was doing the exercises you set for me .
she said to me one day .
" honey you need to stand in front of the mirror with your eyes shut and look at yourself "
.

it sounds its like the pen exercise , but maybe not. ha ha more likely i was in trouble !


over to you jim
Look and you will see!

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gazzam
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Re: ok intellectually stuck ready for guide in 3.2.1..go

Postby gazzam » Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:42 am

no. 2 exersise

GOT IT !!! the thought of the pen image is gone, but the pen still exists !.
so the thought/image of self /gary - can or is gone.
But the body and mind still exist (like the pen behind the back) to carry on in the swirl of life and living.

As he sits smiling at his desk tonight.
Look and you will see!

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gazzam
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Re: ok intellectually stuck ready for guide in 3.2.1..go

Postby gazzam » Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:44 am

JIm I just know when we get to feelings and emotions its gonna be a weird trip.. (grin)
Look and you will see!

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gazzam
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Re: ok intellectually stuck ready for guide in 3.2.1..go

Postby gazzam » Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:53 am

Good god! Ive just realized I have had to think myself into existence thousands and thousands of times a day!

And thinking ,that , my self! was need for every mundane task or decision that i ever did or made.

OMG what a waste of mental resources , i could have reinvented the wheel with that lost time !

ps spent a lot of time putting that pen behind my back tonight jim (grin)
Look and you will see!

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jimw
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Re: ok intellectually stuck ready for guide in 3.2.1..go

Postby jimw » Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:39 pm

Hi Gary,

Sounds like you have been having fun ! Good job.
Exercise 1: Stop everything for two minutes and listen intently to all sounds that are present. Is there a hearer of sounds, separate from hearing and the heard?

No there is no hearer of the sounds that i can detect the ears feel like mic's recording everything, i can be focus on one sound and there's a lot more in the back ground that happen to fast for the mind to arise a thought.
very much the same as sight when i am driving.
Exactly - there is no 'hearer', no little Gary sat inside your head having a listen. Same for driving. In fact it's the same for EVERYTHING !
no. 2 exersise

GOT IT !!! the thought of the pen image is gone, but the pen still exists !.
so the thought/image of self /gary - can or is gone.
But the body and mind still exist (like the pen behind the back) to carry on in the swirl of life and living.

As he sits smiling at his desk tonight.
Excellent. That makes me smile too :) You see - what you think of as 'Gary' is just that - a thought. A label.
Exercise 3: Look at a cup. It’s real. Even when you aren’t thinking about a cup, it’s still there. Now look at thoughts about the self. When you are not holding the story of “you” in your thoughts, is it still there?

NO! I had/have/need - to think it me into ,existence ! each time, i had/have/needed me !
Yep - you/me/I/Gary is just a thought. Some thoughts are more grounded in reality than others. The thought 'cup' is a label, or memory for something that exists (of course if you break it down into molecules, atoms etc, it doesn't). The thought 'school' has some reality to it - it's a load of buildings with some students and teachers, but it is really made up of lots of different things, that individually are something else. However, 'Santa Claus' or 'Bogeyman' (or self) are just thoughts. But they are not real. You can imagine them, but they are not real. Not there. An illusion. They have no reality.
Exercise 4: Next time you eat a meal, consider this - if you had no name, would you still be able to eat the meal ?

yes yes , as described above is all pre trained in the mind , like breathing , like i don't have to think about scratching an itch or bringing a scratch myself thought into existence it just gets scratched.
Exactly. Eating just happens.
I have to say Jim, I am starting to feeling a lot more comfortable within.
knowing and seeing , that i don't have to think and worry that there is a me! trying to control everything.
Just the seeing that my body is fully trained to just zipp along by itself breathing, seeing, hearing, making a lunch etc it,s great , its like having a new toy :). ha ha
Good - excellent in fact. Seeing through the illusion can make you feel more comfortable, more at ease.
Good god! Ive just realized I have had to think myself into existence thousands and thousands of times a day!

And thinking ,that , my self! was need for every mundane task or decision that i ever did or made.

OMG what a waste of mental resources , i could have reinvented the wheel with that lost time !
Yes, yes and yes again !! Bingo!! Jackpot!! Welcome done that man !!

So then Gary. What do you think now ? Is there are a separate self ? Does it exist ?

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gazzam
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Re: ok intellectually stuck ready for guide in 3.2.1..go

Postby gazzam » Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:59 pm

what is this self you talk of jim , i know no self ( ha ha)

But in saying that jim, i do need to see more, of how the mind arises and ties thoughts to emotions and feelings.
I would like to see how this/these illusions manifests.

do you have any exercises Jim for looking/seeing emotion and feelings.

GAry
Look and you will see!

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jimw
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Re: ok intellectually stuck ready for guide in 3.2.1..go

Postby jimw » Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:33 pm

Hi Gary - what are you waiting for exactly ? Isn't it just the case that what is in this very moment, is what is ? That there is no self present and no self required for any of it to happen ?

Emotions come and go. They are sensations connected to thoughts. They happen.

Next time you feel a negativity, a sort of inner 'contraction' or pushing away see if you can find a separate self making it happen. Is there one ?

Think of a time that made you very happy, content and you felt 'in the moment'. Was there a separate self that made it happen to you, or did it just happen ?

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gazzam
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Re: ok intellectually stuck ready for guide in 3.2.1..go

Postby gazzam » Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:25 pm

Hi Jim
Hi Gary - what are you waiting for exactly ? Isn't it just the case that what is in this very moment, is what is ? That there is no self present and no self required for any of it to happen ?


IT does not feel like waiting , more like developing or growing.

So far as to say, my attention has been focused on external objects sight taste hearing seeing.(and i have seen no self in this )
Ive not yet turned that attention inwards to feelings or emotions.
But ! I will be now!!

I know there is no self present now at this moment , and that there never was - it was just an illusion.

so i need to look closely in my past, and the now , maybe some photos and recall what emotion was present and how i was feeling.
Look for how that thought/feeling arose and how my mind labeled it to a self, for gratification/justification.

Actually i just re read your last two comments and they are exercises for me , thanks Jim
will reply to you soon .
Look and you will see!

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gazzam
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Re: ok intellectually stuck ready for guide in 3.2.1..go

Postby gazzam » Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:38 am

Think of a time that made you very happy, content and you felt 'in the moment'. Was there a separate self that made it happen to you, or did it just happen ?
Two things come up when i look at this .

I see laughter ( sorry hear laughter) it triggers my mind set on laughter, and my my mind releases endorphins, instantly i feel good, i then think think that made me happy/feel good.
But it wasn't, a me, it was just the programed release of endorphins.
I then attached it, to a false me feeling, with a thought.

the other way that arises, i see a funny on tv, the mind hears the request instantly and lets go the endorphin's and i laugh and i think that's funny.
yet there was no self that originated that outlay of events, it was a controlled response from the visual stimulation of the mind.

i am seeing now much more clearly, that there seems to a false! need of owning! every thing that happens to us.
When i reality, Life, is like the doctor hitting below your knee cap, and your leg jumps in the air with a reflex response.
So to have a go at summing it up: "Gary is label on a body that exists in a world/universe, of reflex in relation to the his exposure to life".
does this make sense to you jim ?
Look and you will see!

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jimw
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Re: ok intellectually stuck ready for guide in 3.2.1..go

Postby jimw » Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:02 am

Two things come up when i look at this .

I see laughter ( sorry hear laughter) it triggers my mind set on laughter, and my my mind releases endorphins, instantly i feel good, i then think think that made me happy/feel good.
But it wasn't, a me, it was just the programed release of endorphins.
I then attached it, to a false me feeling, with a thought.

the other way that arises, i see a funny on tv, the mind hears the request instantly and lets go the endorphin's and i laugh and i think that's funny.
yet there was no self that originated that outlay of events, it was a controlled response from the visual stimulation of the mind.

i am seeing now much more clearly, that there seems to a false! need of owning! every thing that happens to us.
When i reality, Life, is like the doctor hitting below your knee cap, and your leg jumps in the air with a reflex response.
So to have a go at summing it up: "Gary is label on a body that exists in a world/universe, of reflex in relation to the his exposure to life".
does this make sense to you jim ?
Hi Gary it does make sense. Everything that happens, happens. Good, bad, big small. All now. And now. And now. There is no past (it is dead - just memories) and future is just thought patterns (but they can be useful for planning purposes!). Sometimes you can get caught up in the 'I' thought, sometimes not.

I am going to ask you a question. I asked this earlier on during our conversation. I want you to immediately right the answer. No thinking, no working on it, just type.

What sensations or feelings come up when I say: 'at this very moment there is no separate self' ?

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gazzam
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Re: ok intellectually stuck ready for guide in 3.2.1..go

Postby gazzam » Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:41 pm

a sense of just being here , calmness
Look and you will see!

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jimw
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Re: ok intellectually stuck ready for guide in 3.2.1..go

Postby jimw » Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:33 pm

Glad to hear it Gary !

So then, is there a 'me' / 'I' to be found ? Is there a separate self ? Have you seen through the illusion of 'I' ?

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gazzam
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Re: ok intellectually stuck ready for guide in 3.2.1..go

Postby gazzam » Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:54 pm

So then, is there a 'me' / 'I' to be found ? Is there a separate self ? Have you seen through the illusion of 'I' ?
JIm theres No Me ! NO I ! NO self !

I oberserve all the things you have told me to obeserve,

And no matter how much i pull something apart i cannot find a seprate I/self/Me , that is the root cause of its existance .
As they say Life and everything just is ! a continuing creation of existance.

I still fall victim to the brain palying tricks on me in the day to day activites , but im catching it now quicker and quicker.

I see it is an ongoing process ,to replace the years of conditioning, of brain trickery.

I see a time ahead of Much Observation to imprint the new patterns over the false.

I suppose im wondering where to now JIM , its like a new path is open and i dont want to stop here !

Yours
A happy Gary
Look and you will see!

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jimw
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Re: ok intellectually stuck ready for guide in 3.2.1..go

Postby jimw » Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:54 pm

Hi Gary - brilliant !!! I'm so pleased for you, you did a great job !!

I need to ask you a few confirmation questions, some other guides will have a look at your answers, and when confirmed, you will get turned 'blue' and get you into the post-gate / aftercare groups on Facebook (assuming you use Facebook).

Please answer these for me - you already kind of have for the first, but humour me and answer it anyway please :)

1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? how about self, is there anything that is separate from everything else?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

3) How does it feel to see this? describe in detail.

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.

5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?

6) When you say "I", what are you referring to?

7) Is there an experiencer experiencing, or is there only experience?


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