“Interesting that you have a talking logic. Where do you keep that? I read about a talking snake once.”
Ha ha funny! Good point.
I get off track and you are on it. You don’t let me get away with anything, this is good. Ha ha
“Nobody is already there but fooling herself that all this thinking and conceptualizing and inner dialogue is the real deal, when it is only obscuring the void of no-self. IT is a talking curtain that just keeps pointing you to other parts of itself.”
“Look behind the curtain of thought for yourself and what is there?”
“Is it possible you are clinging to the “self” being so intellectual?”
Yes, “I” is doing that, it has a tendency to intellectualize, find answers. The curtain is saying: explore me! You will know me better! You will then understand me better! If you know me better, you will know what you are.
But how can “Nobody” have so much to say?
I have spent all day today by myself with with the following questions:
1) “You create things out of concepts and give them power. "Belief" is the problem now. What is a belief made out of? Your beliefs are like your "self"...they are stored in the same place on a shelf in the mind? They are right next to concepts you don't believe in, like Santa and Unicorns. What is the difference in the concept of "I" and concept of "Unicorn"?? They are both thoughts, both thoughts are observed, both thoughts cannot be removed from the head and brought to corporal existence.”
Yes, I see what you are saying - “Belief” is a problem now. I believe that I don’t believe in the Self, which is still “I” doing it and is a concept. I also believe that because I believe in some concept, the ‘flip over’ does not happen. I am trying to locate that obstacle, because then I can remove it. Yet, this belief is on the same shelf with all my other concepts and other beliefs. However, I give this particular ‘belief’ power, but I leave other beliefs alone.
I feel frustration coming up that “I” cannot figure it out. “I” is angry. I see this is a thought too.
I am feeling tension in my head.
Something is aware of that.
The concept of “I” and concept of “Unicorn” are both thoughts: one is believed in as having some reality because it is so familiar, the other one is not believed in at all. As you say, both cannot be removed from the head. Ok, I was trying to remove “I” from the head, from that shelf, because I don’t want it to be there. Whereas, I have no problem with “Unicorn” being there because it does not affect me, I don’t believe in it, it does not disturb me. “Unicorn” can sit on the shelf in my mind all it wants, but the “I”, oh it has to go! I see “I” as an obstacle. Ridiculous, isn’t it? I am not leaving the “I” alone, I am not letting it sit on that shelf together with the Unicorn. I had a belief that “I” should disappear.
2) "I" is a label, a sign, that is meant to point to something in reality, represent something in reality. What, in reality, does "I" point to?
I have spent a few hours on this question today. I don’t know! At nothing. Only that something is aware of “I”. Maybe the bellow exercise can help to answer.
3) If I gave you a map, and told you there was a vast treasure waiting for you in Fartsville, a town that I made up and just added to the map at whim, you would try to find Fartsville but never would. You would tell everyone how smart you are, and such a good navigator, and that you were going to figure it out and get the treasure, dammit. But no matter what you did, you would never arrive, and there would be no treasure. NOW....explain what the difference is between "I" and "Fartsville". They both are symbols for what?
“I” and Fartsville” are ideas, non-existent in reality, but exist in fantasy, in thought, in belief. It is easier to see that “Fartsville” does not exist in reality, but only on a map. A map is a tool to find reality (the area on a map), but the map is not reality. This map can be used to get to the area that exists, but it cannot be used to arrive to “Fartsville” because you placed it on a map, when in fact it does not exist. Fartsville only exists on a map as a dot, not as a town itself. The idea of Fartsville was there so that I go looking for it, but I find the reality instead: there is no Fartsville.
Ok, now if Mind = Map and I = Fartsville:
Similarly, “I” exist only as a dot in my mind, an idea in my mind. I really want to find “I”, to know what I am. So I use my mind (a tool) to go looking for “I”. The idea of “I” (Fartsville) is used as incentive to go looking (how deceitful and mean!). I can never find “I” in reality. I look in my mind (on the map) and “I” is there, I swear! If I don’t use my mind, if I don’t grab to thoughts, I cannot find anything, no “I”, nothing.
I don’t like this game that “Nobody” is playing because I don’t yet SEE! I cannot give up looking!
“I” points to where to look for reality, searching is going on and on and on, exhausting, frustrating! Starting to give up the search, starting to unbelieve that “I” is real.
Just like Fartsville points to reality (the area without it), but can never be found.
The question how long my determination to find “I” will last. I have been quite determined in life and it is not helpful here at all.
I go looking for Fartsville using the map, I can never find it in reality. I go looking for “I” using my mind, I cannot find it in reality. Fartsville and “I” are symbols of …. I don’t know how to answer that.
That is why I cannot answer question 2 above. I only see that “I” points to reality itself.
Is it a symbol of existence?
4) “Does "I" exist?”
“I” exists only as a concept, an idea, but not in reality. I need to go back to the basic. Why is “I” a concept? Because it is not a thing and cannot be located. That’s why it is an idea. Fartsville is an idea because it can never be located in reality, only on a map, so it is equally only a concept. It points to reality, but you have to go to that area on a map in order to see that what is on a map actually exists minus Fartsville.
So I use my mind (the map) as a guide and “I” (Fartsville) as a pointer and I look and I cannot find “I” and it is frying my brain! My mind supposed to help me to get to reality and to see that “I” is not there. I cannot find “I”, but something individual is still here.
I don’t know what to say. When I say something, that is not it. No thing is IT. It’s just nothing nothing nothing nothing is real accept for the physical things that are around. My mind is angry now. Frustrated. It is fighting to the last bit. The curtain is saying look at this pattern, look at that, I am still here, look at me, I am still here! I have to let it be there. I have to let “I” be there just like I let Unicorn be there. I cannot get rid of “I” because it is not possible, right? It will always be on that shelf in my mind, right? Even when I do not believe it anymore, just like Unicorn.
You really challenge me here and I am very grateful for that. Today was the most challenging investigating because I cannot find anything, I am just babbling, everything that I have written is just nonsense really, just concepts, yet it feels it is necessary to write it anyway.
I then sat by the lake for a couple of hours, relaxed, love and joy replaced frustration. I still have to SEE, but not through the Self. There is Nothing here when concepts are not thought about.