Help please

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Profilific
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Re: Help please

Postby Profilific » Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:32 am

It would be sense of self.
And if there is no self, what is it than? :)
There are still some doubts?
it seemed like there was suddenly a blip and things, for a fraction of a second, seemed to carry on without any me there, no sense of self (I think, it was so fast). What was that?
Enlightenment :), glimpse into reality, but nothing to be chased, just allowed to reveal when it needs to.

To be honest, there are still doubts. I can go about my day and such but there are still thoughts coming up that something "hooks" onto and then realize that they are just thoughts and then dropped. ANd there is still a little "thing" wanting to get free and trying to search for it. I don't know if I actually saw it and now my mind is having different expectations for what was going to happen.
So it seems "I" haven't seen it.

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Re: Help please

Postby Eloratea » Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:42 am

I don't know if I actually saw it and now my mind is having different expectations for what was going to happen.

What are those expectations?
What should be different than it already is?
So it seems "I" haven't seen it.
There is no „I“ to see it.
There is no one to be enlightened.
Relax, feel those feelings of contraction, of being not free, but question the thoughts telling that there is someone there that has to be liberated. Life is already free, we are just clearing here the confusion of the mind.

Best wishes.

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Re: Help please

Postby Profilific » Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:46 am

I don't know if I actually saw it and now my mind is having different expectations for what was going to happen.

What are those expectations?
What should be different than it already is?
So it seems "I" haven't seen it.
There is no „I“ to see it.
There is no one to be enlightened.
Relax, feel those feelings of contraction, of being not free, but question the thoughts telling that there is someone there that has to be liberated. Life is already free, we are just clearing here the confusion of the mind.

Best wishes.
Expectations:
Being free from all my mental health problems (don't worry, I am medicated for them and seeing doctors etc).
Being free from all suffering
Becoming a very succesful human
Having more energy than now.
Of I not being here so it can be a complete relaxation.

They seem silly but there they are.

I don't know where to go from here, should I feel the sense of contraction? It still seems there is a very subtle observer.

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Re: Help please

Postby Profilific » Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:48 am

And there is also a fear that if I let go of control that there will be no one there to control my tics (I have tourette's).

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Re: Help please

Postby Eloratea » Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:57 am

Could you let go of all those expectations now and just stay for a while with this what is as it is; Having relaxed and clear look at it?

Greetings.

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Re: Help please

Postby Profilific » Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:14 am

Could you let go of all those expectations now and just stay for a while with this what is as it is; Having relaxed and clear look at it?

Greetings.

I'm sorry, but hat I don't I quite understood the last instructions.

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Re: Help please

Postby Eloratea » Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:17 am

Can you just leave all expectations right now? And accept this experience as it is. And see how it feels.

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Re: Help please

Postby Profilific » Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:28 am

It feels a bit scary, and uncomfortable because of the various anxieties in the body. But it feels less of a struggle and more clarity.

I read some more stuff about this and one of the things I've read was "Can a sense/feeling of something own anything?" And can a thought think, can a sense of something think? And I looked to check if it was true and it seems that a sense of something can't think, that thinking and a sense of something are seperate. And then I asked about the observer, can a sense of observer observe? And the answer to that was clearly no. And I asked, can a thought observer? And the answer to that was clearly no as well (you need observing to observe). So the next question was, what does observe then? And the only conclusion I can draw is that observing just is, nothing observes. So right now it seems that awareness attaches to thoughts, or thoughts coming up and are believed but because of the previous checkings they are quickly dispelled with.

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Re: Help please

Postby Eloratea » Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:38 am

Good, keep looking without any expectations. Accepting again and again the actual experience as it is.

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Re: Help please

Postby Profilific » Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:58 am

Just a question. The way I question the beliefs, is that I ask something then try to observe if that's true or not, and then getting the answer as yes or no. But my mind is a really anxious mind, so if I get an answer that seems really true, it comes up with a bunch of rationalizations why it may not be that way or trying to explain WHY it is that way. But as I've read, what is seen can't be unseen, so my question is, will what be seen still be true to some deep mind of mine or whatever, despite my mind questioning this with anxious thoughts? The anxious thoughts seem more like a habit than anything else.

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Re: Help please

Postby Eloratea » Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:43 am

Just a question. The way I question the beliefs, is that I ask something then try to observe if that's true or not, and then getting the answer as yes or no.
Yes, but not just intellectually. Like when you see tree you know you have seen the tree.
You don't try to make additional concepts about that.
But my mind is a really anxious mind, so if I get an answer that seems really true, it comes up with a bunch of rationalizations why it may not be that way or trying to explain WHY it is that way. But as I've read, what is seen can't be unseen, so my question is, will what be seen still be true to some deep mind of mine or whatever, despite my mind questioning this with anxious thoughts? The anxious thoughts seem more like a habit than anything else.
I don't know how is exactly your state but normally seeing thought patterns as they are, not paying much attention to them make them dissolve and become quieter. There needs to be continuous looking into the thought patterns until there is clarity. But as I said I don't know because of your condition how all this reflects for you. Maybe your practice of mindfulness is still working good for you.
Anything beyond direct pointing to seeing that there is no separate self is beyond scope of this forum.

Best wishes.

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Re: Help please

Postby Profilific » Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:34 pm

Thank you for your answer!

Ok, so my current experience, after looking into my experience and letting go as best I could etc, is that something happened and I now see things as just happening. For example I get lost in thoughts, and instead of there being thoughts of taking ownership/responsibility of those actions/thoughts, they are just seen as being happened, no one really controlled/chose them to happened. There isn't an afterthought of I chose them, or I did that etc. It happened.
There is a lot of checking still, to see if there really is a self left, or an observer etc. And it does seem that when I conjure up an observer, it seems to be there, but afterwards, it seems that it also just happened.
I'll let this sit for a bit.

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Re: Help please

Postby Profilific » Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:26 am

I realized now that I haven't REALLY looked. I will start doing it now. Is there something you want me to really look at so I then can give you my honest experience?

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Re: Help please

Postby Eloratea » Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:59 am

Is there you in any way or form?

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Re: Help please

Postby Profilific » Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:30 pm

I'm asking this question over and over and try to look in my direct experience, and when fear comes up, I just try to be aware of the sensation. And it seems to slowly burn away the personal I, the sense of it. Is this correct? Am I doing wha t you asked me to?
The personal I seems to get weaker and weaker. Still there but it's fading it seems.
If this is correct, how do I know when it's totally "gone" so to speak?


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