Totally ready for this.

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xblackxsailsx
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Totally ready for this.

Postby xblackxsailsx » Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:04 am

I've been trying to see through the illusion of self for a few months now, I'd say. I've had a lot of profound realizations and experiences but nothing lasting, I'm not sure if I've seen through it or not. I actually posted on this site once before but i didn't get very far..I've been busy. Anyways, I really want to try three-on-one, I think it might finally get me through the gate. :)

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Cam-RT
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Re: Totally ready for this.

Postby Cam-RT » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:06 am

So xblackxsailsx....

It looks like you've been at this for a while...If this is so important to you, maybe you should tell me why you haven't cut the cord to this imaginary construct?<------You know...LET GO??


What's behind all this ego and intellect?.... You've dealt with all the thoughts, What about the Stillness?

GO THERE, LOOK....SEE THE TRUTH FOR YOURSELF WITHOUT A DOUBT....YOU...WILL....SEE.
The illusion isn't destroyed...Just seen for what it 'Is'
Thoughts vs. Reality----->Reality always wins.
"Have courage...Don't give up!!"

http://cam-rt.blogspot.com

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Anki
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Re: Totally ready for this.

Postby Anki » Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:31 am

Hi xblackxsailsx, I'm Lisa and I'll be joining you and Cam-RT.

I appreciate that you feel frustrated, after having had insights and realizations. Best to set them aside for now; come back to them later.

Like Cam is saying.. go there, look. Spend some time looking around inside. Is there a self, an I, a me? Look carefully, everywhere. Report back about what happens.

Do you have a regular name or is xblackxsailsx how you'd like to keep it?

L
Unleash yourself. Look, and look again. No self to unleash.

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No_One
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Re: Totally ready for this.

Postby No_One » Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:59 pm

Oh yeah! The mighty warrior who was ready to pass through the gates of Hell just lost interest. Now if replying was too hard how are you ever gonna open the box and look at what's going on? Is that how you usually treat things in daily life. Scream you are a real man and then chicken out? How about doing something different this time? After you scream about being a real man you actually man up. How does that sound?
The truth is in here not out there

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xblackxsailsx
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Re: Totally ready for this.

Postby xblackxsailsx » Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:16 pm

Wow "No_One", that was rather rude....
Actually, I've been reading a book called "Nothing Personal: Seeing Through The Illusion of a Separate Self" and I wanted to give it my full attention. I've also been working out 4 times a week and of course I have a job and other things to do and I decided it'd be best to start this now and not a couple weeks ago when I started the thread. My apologies..
My real name is Whitley, Lisa.
And Cam-RT, looking is what i've been doing :) i've been looking constantly since I stopped responding. This no-self thing has taken up many of my thoughts. Sometimes I'll have new insights that I'll want to explore deeper.

Anyways, thank you all for responding. I did not give up, quite the opposite actually, despite leaving for a while.

In looking for an "I" or "me" I haven't been able to find one. I've seen that there is no operator of my brain that i can call Me, the brain just seems to fire out thoughts beyond any control, and that's also where our actions come from.

All of the insights of no-self seem to make perfect sense to me, but yet, I'm still seeking for something. I understand that the goal is NOT eternal bliss or whatever they're selling these days, but I'm not too clear on what the goal IS. Like...I understand intellectually that there is no self, but I've read that the ultimate goal here is NOT to lose your SENSE of self, so does that make the intellectual understanding the end point? This is what's been hanging me up.

Sorry if i'm missing the point entirely.

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Cam-RT
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Re: Totally ready for this.

Postby Cam-RT » Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:39 pm

Good Morning Lisa..

Believe me "No-one" was tame compared to some of he threads on R.T....So how did the body react to this "rudeness"?

When the self is intact, taking things personally is a sure sign that the connection is still there...So were we poking at you? Hell yes!!...Hence the name of the book you're reading...

Now for a positive stroke...Thank You! For making this effort to free your mind, a priority in your life.
In looking for an "I" or "me" I haven't been able to find one. I've seen that there is no operator of my brain that i can call Me, the brain just seems to fire out thoughts beyond any control, and that's also where our actions come from.
The reason why you haven't found it is because it was never there!! All these thought s that are buzzing about, are distracting you from looking what's behind them...there's just thought, No thinker.

So other than these thoughts what's left??


All of the insights of no-self seem to make perfect sense to me, but yet, I'm still seeking for something.
There's NOTHING to seek!!....literally....NOTHING!! These thoughts come from nothing and go right back into NOTHING!

I'm not too clear on what the goal IS. Like...I understand intellectually that there is no self, but I've read that the ultimate goal here is NOT to lose your SENSE of self, so does that make the intellectual understanding the end point?
The goal is to look and see and realize...That NOTHING IS IN CONTROL...there's just NO-YOU!!
I'm hoping you misunderstood the message from the book, because the illusion isn't destroyed...Just seen for what it "IS"...ILLUSION. From there it's just life, there's no need to reference "IT" anymore...
The illusion isn't destroyed...Just seen for what it 'Is'
Thoughts vs. Reality----->Reality always wins.
"Have courage...Don't give up!!"

http://cam-rt.blogspot.com

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Anki
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Re: Totally ready for this.

Postby Anki » Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:44 pm

Hi Whitley, good to see you back!

Because it's been a stretch of time, let's backtrack a bit.

What we do here is ask you to look where we point, and then we'll ask you questions about what you see. This helps keep things simple and straightforward.

Sounds like life is a little calmer for you, so from now on can you commit to posting at least once a day, barring unusual circumstances? And can you also commit to being as deeply honest in your answers as you can possibly be?

Let us know about these 2, and if the answers are yes, how about a little more about your background, beyond the book you are currently reading? That might be helpful too.

Lisa
Unleash yourself. Look, and look again. No self to unleash.

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Cam-RT
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Re: Totally ready for this.

Postby Cam-RT » Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:35 am

Wow! sorry, not enought coffee this morning!

My apologies Whitley...please continue.
The illusion isn't destroyed...Just seen for what it 'Is'
Thoughts vs. Reality----->Reality always wins.
"Have courage...Don't give up!!"

http://cam-rt.blogspot.com

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xblackxsailsx
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Re: Totally ready for this.

Postby xblackxsailsx » Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:20 pm

Lisa, from now on I will absolutely make those commitments. This is something I need to do. The problem is since I learned about this idea a while ago, it's less of a shock to me now, and so I have less motivation to log on and figure out more about it. But just like all the other things in life that I've disciplined myself to do, I'm going to do this because I think it's the most important thing. Other things in my life, such as my health and my girlfriend often fight for this priority, but I'm going to really commit myself to seeing the truth and being honest.
A little about me--I'm almost 19 and I'm going off to the University of Vermont. I was always into philosophy when I was younger, and I've always had a burning desire to find out the truth and to question things. When I was younger and less mature, this manifested itself in things like anarchism, veganism, and rebelling against doing homework/going to school. I was very defiant and I was always sick of people not questioning things the way I did. When I was really young, like early middle school, I would often go into my parents' room crying, because I could not prove that life was not a dream, or that life was even "real". I always wanted to know the "truth" about things, so I would cling onto various belief systems.
Eventually I got into Eckhart Tolle and realized that a lot of my belief system clinging was due to my "ego". So I tried to be more present and accepting of the moment. This helped me find more peace in my life, but I still felt like I was deluding myself. I had an immense amount of stress in my life because I was constantly lying to myself. I got into neo-spirituality and tried to fit everything that happened into that belief system. If I had muscle twitching for example, I assumed it was an "ascension symptom" and that my body was "ascending into the fourth dimension" and that I was a "starseed". Or something like that.
Anyways, I was reading about eckhart tolle on rsdnation.com (interestingly enough, a website about picking up girls..) and one of the posters had in his signature the name of his blog: "Undisguisedlife.blogspot.com--psychological freedom like you never thought possible." I was obviously interested, so I opened up the blog and read "Start Here"
He talked about the idea of no-self. He was affiliated with the message board "Truthstrike." I read it and suddenly it all made sense. It was something SO obvious. Of COURSE there's no hidden "me" controlling my thoughts and actions. That doesn't even make sense! I felt like a robot lol. So i joined Truthstrike and started a thread where several people attempted to help me see through the illusion. But after a while I decided to stop posting on the thread and try and "look" myself. One of the problems I had, however, was that I never truly asked myself is there a self and then looked to check. It was more like I was looking to prove that there was no self. So i'd already bought into a new belief system without actually looking to prove it to myself!!
Well, here I am now. I liked the look and feel of this website better and I've decided to fully commit myself to this. I want to see the truth because I think the truth about your own existence is the most important groundwork to have.

Thank you for putting up with my long message. :)

-Whitley

Ps. yes, i certainly do still take things personally. My girlfriend was making fun of me for being "awkward" around new people sometimes and it upset me. So i dont think i've seen through it yet, Cam-RT.

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Anki
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Re: Totally ready for this.

Postby Anki » Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:18 pm

Hi Whitley, nice and detailed posting from you. Thanks. I sense your sincerity and we'll be happy to continue on.

There is nothing to 'figure out' here, it really is a matter of we point, you look and then say what you find. Some explanations of things, perhaps, and maybe a few exercises for you to do. Nothing difficult.

Please set aside anything you might be reading about this. No books, videos, articles, other forums, please. This is to your advantage. It will keep the focus squarely where it needs to be: right here, with you looking where we point. Agreed?

If so, what are your expectations here, Whitley? What do you expect to happen in this process and with the seeing that there is no self? Go ahead and be very detailed... the more the better, so we can take a clear look at what you imagine might come about. This is a good way to get started.

Nice to be working with you, Whitley!
Lisa
Unleash yourself. Look, and look again. No self to unleash.

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Cam-RT
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Re: Totally ready for this.

Postby Cam-RT » Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:41 pm

Good Afternoon Whitley...

First off I want to start off with a quote from Jed McKenna that even prior to my liberation was quite profound...

"Everything we know, no matter how sure we are is just belief, And all beliefs are self limiting and serve to reduce the truly infinite to falsely finite..."

"Tolle" is a good read for post liberation as with Jed Mckenna and Adyashanti also are very good but what we need to focus on is getting you thru the Gate first...
because I could not prove that life was not a dream, or that life was even "real". I always wanted to know the "truth" about things, so I would cling onto various belief systems.
Mr. Reality is quite real and will "bitch slap" you down if your not careful ;^)
Seeing and understanding The lack of a "self" opens up life around you without your mind being overclouded with unnecessary Thought. Living separate from life, Is living in your head...Being one with life, is seeing that "you" are not your thoughts...
Eventually I got into Eckhart Tolle and realized that a lot of my belief system clinging was due to my "ego". So I tried to be more present and accepting of the moment.
Ego and thoughts tend to go hand in hand...But ego is genetically hard coded as a survival instinct, like in animals... Eastern spirituality try's to quell this as a step toward spiritual perfection...but in this case it's not required to break this connection, just see it for what it is... THOUGHT.
You know when you're on a ledge or doing something death defying and you get that "rush"? That's the ego in the background kicking in, trying in to protect the body from harm.

This go's right to your very core...You are a human being.
Human = The body, an organism...
Being = ??

It's not about a story called Whitley, or girl, or a student<<<<These are all labels not who you really are...
You're a being, housed in a body that is supporting life until the body dies.
So without a body do you exist??
So Who is " I "??
The illusion isn't destroyed...Just seen for what it 'Is'
Thoughts vs. Reality----->Reality always wins.
"Have courage...Don't give up!!"

http://cam-rt.blogspot.com

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xblackxsailsx
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Re: Totally ready for this.

Postby xblackxsailsx » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:49 am

Lisa--*i'm trying to be honest and open with you* I am hesitant to answer this question. A fear arises in me that I will be judged for having silly/untrue expectations. But i'm going to just go and be honest about what my expectations and hopes are, even if they seem silly.
I expect that once I see through the illusion of self, suffering will lessen. After all, that's what all the enlightened people seem to say! haha but also, if you dont take the suffering personally than how could it NOT lessen?
I also expect to feel more peaceful and not worry as much.
I expect to be less judgmental and to just let things happen.
And I'm scared to say this because it seems so...naive...but I secretly hope that when I see through the illusion, I will be happier and stop having a feeling of inner turmoil. I will stop worrying about the meaning of life/point in doing things and just "be". Ok so i guess that's the same as being "more peaceful and not worrying as much", but I thought I'd say it again.

Well, I guess those are more of the positive benefits of liberation, that i kind of hope for deep down. What do i actually expect liberation to BE like? Well, I suppose things would seem less separate. If i saw through "self", I would be "one" with all of existence. Ok, well that's not entirely true. It's almost like...i wouldn't be "one", *I* just wouldn't be at all...but then all that would be left would be existence...which is very similar, no? hahah
You're a being, housed in a body that is supporting life until the body dies.
So without a body do you exist??
So Who is " I "??

Cam_RT, I'm a little lost. I'm a being housed in a body? Not according to the main teachings of this site, as described in the FAQ and everything else...
But i'll go along with it.
Without a body, do i exist? Well....ok it's late and I have to get up early for work but I'll keep thinking about it and probably reply right before i go to bed. Figured I'd submit this before I get ready for bed. Thanks guys! Sorry I'm sending this so late but at least I made the "every day" deadline!

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Anki
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Re: Totally ready for this.

Postby Anki » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:57 am

Whitley, I had expectations that match yours very closely. None of them silly at all.

So, set them aside now, as they tend to get in the way.

What happens when I say to you that you are not a self? You aren't an 'I', and never have been. What happens when you read this?
Unleash yourself. Look, and look again. No self to unleash.

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xblackxsailsx
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Re: Totally ready for this.

Postby xblackxsailsx » Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:53 am

Cam_RT, I thought about what you said a lot today. "Without a body do you exist?" When I think about that question, I imagine my body and all of its parts, inside and out. I imagine the inside of my body and see that there is only a brain controlling what happens, no mystical being controlling my actions that i can refer to as a self. You'd think that this would be the end of liberation, right? I mean, it just makes it so obvious that there is no self. It's so. Obvious. But yet, I keep looking. I think that I am expecting things to "click" in a new way, and for me to really understand this and experience it on an even deeper level. My problem is not that I think there's a self, cuz logically the idea of a self doesn't make sense! It's more that I am expecting another shift to happen. I mean, there's no way it's THAT simple, just realize that you are just a brain and body and that there is no controlling entity, cuz if it was, this message board would be totally useless! You'd just need an anatomy chart, right?

Lisa, when I read that, I intellectually agree. But then I expect something more. Like something to shift inside me. And I also question who the "you" is that you are referring to when you say "You aren't an I." Obviously you're questioning the body, right?

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Anki
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Re: Totally ready for this.

Postby Anki » Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:16 am

Nope, I'm just asking for your reaction when I say that. There's no 'you'... no 'I', and your answer to what comes up when I say this is just fine.

In your reply to Cam you say:
I think that I am expecting things to "click" in a new way, and for me to really understand this and experience it on an even deeper level. My problem is not that I think there's a self, cuz logically the idea of a self doesn't make sense! It's more that I am expecting another shift to happen.
More expectations. When they come up, just set them aside. They'll get in the way here, Whitley.... You also say:
I mean, there's no way it's THAT simple, just realize that you are just a brain and body and that there is no controlling entity, cuz if it was, this message board would be totally useless!
Right... not because it's not simple, but because this isn't what we're after here. We going to distinguish between thoughts and direct experiencing. So, let's start with this:

Where do thoughts come from, Whitley? Take a look... what is their source? Where do they go?

Lisa
Unleash yourself. Look, and look again. No self to unleash.


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