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I Need Guidance

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:19 am
by Noobstorm
I've been looking for Enlightenment for nearly a year. I didn't do any practice such as LSD, meditation, Kundalini, yoga, etc. because I don't believe it brings anyone closer to enlightenment. I was completely disheartened, and then I finally found this forum after mindlessly clicking through google.

I have read some of the Gateless Gatecrashers book, and have tried self-inquiry to no avail. I don't know why but I just can't grasp it...

I would greatly appreciate it if anyone could point me in the right direction :)

Re: I Need Guidance

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:30 am
by vinceschubert
Noobstorm, give us a rant about your expectations for how it will be when you are enlightened.
Give us a name to call you by.
Are you willing to commit to staying with this until you are cooked ?
Can you post at least once on most days ?
You have come to the forum where up to 3 guides will work with you, so you are in for a ride. Hang on!
Please answer all questions. No editing, just post as it comes out. There is no right or wrong answers here.
120% honesty with us and yourself. Bullshit not tolerated. No second hand knowledge - don't quote anything you have read or heard. Just report your direct experiencing in great detail.

Re: I Need Guidance

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:58 am
by Noobstorm
I expect a much more peaceful life, and the elimination of the fear of death. I will drop all my preconcieved ideas and expectations if that is necessary.

You can call me Ali. I am very determined, and I promise I will be 100% sincere in my answers and stick to this thread until the very end. I can post multiple times per day.

Re: I Need Guidance

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:25 am
by vinceschubert
Good Ali, now what if i were to tell you that nothing will change, but everything will be different.
Give me your take on that. Be more verbose.

Re: I Need Guidance

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:21 pm
by Life
Hi Ali,
I've been looking for Enlightenment for nearly a year. I didn't do any practice such as LSD, meditation, Kundalini, yoga, etc. because I don't believe it brings anyone closer to enlightenment. I was completely disheartened, and then I finally found this forum after mindlessly clicking through google.

I have read some of the Gateless Gatecrashers book, and have tried self-inquiry to no avail. I don't know why but I just can't grasp it...
Thats a very good observation.

Here we have a different take on self-inquiry, not who am i (which implies a who) but is there an i, ali?

Is there an i to grasp at all?

More peaceful life, or not, fear of death, or not, is anything behind having peace or chaos, fear or no fear?

Do not think about this for a long time to give the most correct intellectual answer, look beyond the thoughts, what is true and really there, what is only there as ''thought label'', what do you see as i at the moment ali?

Re: I Need Guidance

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:51 pm
by Trevor
Hello Ali,

When you look and read what we've written here now, can you find a separate 'me' thing that is doing the looking and reading? What is the experience of reading this? Can you find anything that's having the experience of reading this? If you can (or if you can't) describe what you find in detail.

Best,

Trevor

Re: I Need Guidance

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:38 pm
by Noobstorm
Good Ali, now what if i were to tell you that nothing will change, but everything will be different.
Give me your take on that. Be more verbose.
Everything will remain the same, but will be viewed differently.

Ex. I find someone to be imperfect, and then I see them as perfect although they retain the same qualities.

Hi Ali,
I've been looking for Enlightenment for nearly a year. I didn't do any practice such as LSD, meditation, Kundalini, yoga, etc. because I don't believe it brings anyone closer to enlightenment. I was completely disheartened, and then I finally found this forum after mindlessly clicking through google.

I have read some of the Gateless Gatecrashers book, and have tried self-inquiry to no avail. I don't know why but I just can't grasp it...
Thats a very good observation.

Here we have a different take on self-inquiry, not who am i (which implies a who) but is there an i, ali?

Is there an i to grasp at all?

More peaceful life, or not, fear of death, or not, is anything behind having peace or chaos, fear or no fear?

Do not think about this for a long time to give the most correct intellectual answer, look beyond the thoughts, what is true and really there, what is only there as ''thought label'', what do you see as i at the moment ali?
At this moment, without labeling, is life, without tags such as 'you', 'me', 'apple', etc.
At this moment is also thought.

Hello Ali,

When you look and read what we've written here now, can you find a separate 'me' thing that is doing the looking and reading? What is the experience of reading this? Can you find anything that's having the experience of reading this? If you can (or if you can't) describe what you find in detail.

Best,

Trevor

I cannot find a separate 'me' thing that is doing the looking & reading. I can't describe the experience. I am having the experience of reading this.

'I' is very real to me.

Re: I Need Guidance

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:03 pm
by Noobstorm
Sorry I forgot to answer this part
More peaceful life, or not, fear of death, or not, is anything behind having peace or chaos, fear or no fear?
I don't know how to answer this

Re: I Need Guidance

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:34 pm
by Life
At this moment, without labeling, is life, without tags such as 'you', 'me', 'apple', etc.
At this moment is also thought.
Does that mean that you is a thought?

Ok, look right now, what is there in direct experience? Be precise, what is really happening, what is story about it?

Again, this is not about answering correctly but about what you see, in this case when there is fear of death is it your fear? Or just thoughts arising about death and this triggering fear about dying? Both coming and going without control, do you control thought ali?

Re: I Need Guidance

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:03 pm
by Noobstorm
At this moment, without labeling, is life, without tags such as 'you', 'me', 'apple', etc.
At this moment is also thought.
Does that mean that you is a thought?

Ok, look right now, what is there in direct experience? Be precise, what is really happening, what is story about it?

Again, this is not about answering correctly but about what you see, in this case when there is fear of death is it your fear? Or just thoughts arising about death and this triggering fear about dying? Both coming and going without control, do you control thought ali?
Thought is being experienced, and it is not the one who is experiencing.

In direct experience, thought, feelings, sensations are happening. There is no story.

I'm still not fully grasping it.. I don't know why I am still very much identified with thought but this is starting to become a little more clear to me.

Re: I Need Guidance

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:06 pm
by Noobstorm
I don't know if I control thought.

Re: I Need Guidance

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:12 pm
by Trevor
I cannot find a separate 'me' thing that is doing the looking & reading. I can't describe the experience. I am having the experience of reading this.

'I' is very real to me.[/quote]

Thank you Ali.
Now can you give a very detailed description of how "'I' is very real to me" '?
Exactly how is it real to you?
Where is 'I' for example?
What does 'I' feel like? Emotionally and physically.

Re: I Need Guidance

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:43 pm
by Life
Thought is being experienced, and it is not the one who is experiencing.

In direct experience, thought, feelings, sensations are happening. There is no story.

I'm still not fully grasping it.. I don't know why I am still very much identified with thought but this is starting to become a little more clear to me.
Alright.

All of that is there, is there also a self there having them? Is there an experiencer or just experience?

What do you mean by grasping it? You only need to see if there is a self to grasp in the first place, by looking in everyday life, check for example in the morning routine: conciousness comes, thought of what time and day it is. washing, clothes to wear, brushing teeth, eating breakfast, look, are you consciously doing all of this?
I don't know if I control thought.
Look can you stop thought in the middle as it happens? Can you not think of a purple cow right now?

Like your commitment, keep going, keep looking/investigating in life, is it true there is no you? What comes up when considering this?

Re: I Need Guidance

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:23 pm
by vinceschubert
I find someone to be imperfect, and then I see them as perfect although they retain the same qualities.
Excellent example. Well this is how it will be for you. You will discover the perfection of the whole world including yourself. (not an actual self - just language)
Can you imagine the change in feelings/emotions/attitude when this occurs ?

Re: I Need Guidance

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:20 pm
by Noobstorm
I cannot find a separate 'me' thing that is doing the looking & reading. I can't describe the experience. I am having the experience of reading this.

'I' is very real to me.
Thank you Ali.
Now can you give a very detailed description of how "'I' is very real to me" '?
Exactly how is it real to you?
Where is 'I' for example?
What does 'I' feel like? Emotionally and physically.
I is a thought, and exists only in thought. It is separate from feelings.

Thought is being experienced, and it is not the one who is experiencing.

In direct experience, thought, feelings, sensations are happening. There is no story.

I'm still not fully grasping it.. I don't know why I am still very much identified with thought but this is starting to become a little more clear to me.
Alright.

All of that is there, is there also a self there having them? Is there an experiencer or just experience?

What do you mean by grasping it? You only need to see if there is a self to grasp in the first place, by looking in everyday life, check for example in the morning routine: conciousness comes, thought of what time and day it is. washing, clothes to wear, brushing teeth, eating breakfast, look, are you consciously doing all of this?
I don't know if I control thought.
Look can you stop thought in the middle as it happens? Can you not think of a purple cow right now?

Like your commitment, keep going, keep looking/investigating in life, is it true there is no you? What comes up when considering this?
By grasping I mean understanding... I'm still hanging on to I. The idea of no me feels comforting now that I understand some of the concept.
I find someone to be imperfect, and then I see them as perfect although they retain the same qualities.
Excellent example. Well this is how it will be for you. You will discover the perfection of the whole world including yourself. (not an actual self - just language)
Can you imagine the change in feelings/emotions/attitude when this occurs ?
Yes, I think I will love everything and everyone unconditionally.