Letting go

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Padmasukha
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Re: Letting go

Postby Padmasukha » Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:28 pm

Hi there. Wow, there's a lot of material there! Thank you so much. Needless to say, I didn't work through it all in a day. I listened to the Introduction first, and listened to the rest of the recordings, and worked through the transcripts for Zooming in on Death and Perceiving Receiving, so I still have a number left to do. It's a lot to comment on here, so I'll just pick out a few things that have stayed with me most. I loved the 'All It Is" understanding that all there is is what is in direct experience,
"whatever you’re experiencing is that. Ah! This is how God is appearing to me now."
And
"we use this definition of God as everything that exists. And this knowing that the only thing we can know is our experience. So you add one and one together and we get this two that is really less than one that sounds like “this is how God is appearing to me now.”
The shifts in seeing that I had in doing these meditations are subtle, but they're there. There's a more felt sense of perception and the perceived as inseparable. And from the Zooming in on Death/Peace meditations, a stronger felt sense of the infinity of being, Usually when I'm accessing that (or trying to!), it involves a letting go of self and ... Holy Shit. Again! OK, I just saw that differently, but can't say how. So normally I would visualise emptiness and generate as the Buddha, so like Steph is gone, like Steph has to be gone for there to be an infinite. But doing the Zooming in on Peace it was more like Steph's still here and the infinite is here as well and that's OK. What were those words I just quoted?
"this two that is really less than one"
But as I was just writing then, it appeared like yeah, Steph and the infinite are here because we're inseparable, because there is no separate Steph, just all the stuff that's labelled Steph, - appearances of form, feeling, discrimination, etc., and that stuff is an inseparable part of everything. It's not quite clear, but it's clearer than it was.
Whatever we can experience. God is everything. One and one together. This experience, this thought, this sound, whatever it is, that’s just how God is showing up in this moment.
that is how God is showing up at this moment, as the One who experiences, as well as the experience.
Nothing special. Of course, that means everything is special.
This is what I wrote when I was doing the 'tracking back past where the 'I' arises':
Shit! The awareness that I-ness arises in is beginningless and is deathless. Holy shit!!! This be-ing, this awareness, is already the deathless! ‘Wide open is the door of the deathless.’ It goes back before this life and continuous to the next. In fact, it doesn’t go anywhere. There is nowhere to go. (The same as with time.) It just is. It has no beginning or end. No size in space. The is no place that it is or isn’t. Though it feels more like it is!! But how can it be anything, when its only quality is emptiness and awareness?
Gong: ‘… but you can’t kill me…’
What else. OMG the Beginning Thinking stuff! Realising clearer than ever that everything is passing away even as we become aware of it, like a car that we don't see until it's already passed us! The fleetingness and transience of everything. I love how this (and loads of Dharma) stuff matches up with quantum physics. Everything appearing and disappearing constantly. Nothing remaining for more than the most fleeting glimpse.
And the Zooming in on death. I wrote:
What a relief! No more having to be ‘me’. What a release, what a relief! What freedom! To no longer be tied to this body! So why do I care about it now! Just let go of attachment to it. Let go of identifying with it!
Clearly, I am very excited by all of this. And still have more of it to work through.
I'm aware there is still a Steph in all that writing! And when I read over what I've written, it doesn't look like anything new. But I know it at a deeper level.
Again, my deep appreciation and gratitude for all you are sharing. This way of working is such a good fit for me. For years I've had a bunch of practices that I've promised to do every day, and I'm hopeless at that! It creates almost as much guilt as it does benefit. This really direct stuff is amazing.
Thank you xxx

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Padmasukha
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Re: Letting go

Postby Padmasukha » Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:30 pm

Hi there. Wow, there's a lot of material there! Thank you so much. Needless to say, I didn't work through it all in a day. I listened to the Introduction first, and listened to the rest of the recordings, and worked through the transcripts for Zooming in on Death and Perceiving Receiving, so I still have a number left to do. It's a lot to comment on here, so I'll just pick out a few things that have stayed with me most. I loved the 'All It Is" understanding that all there is is what is in direct experience,
"whatever you’re experiencing is that. Ah! This is how God is appearing to me now."
And
"we use this definition of God as everything that exists. And this knowing that the only thing we can know is our experience. So you add one and one together and we get this two that is really less than one that sounds like “this is how God is appearing to me now.”
The shifts in seeing that I had in doing these meditations are subtle, but they're there. There's a more felt sense of perception and the perceived as inseparable. And from the Zooming in on Death/Peace meditations, a stronger felt sense of the infinity of being, Usually when I'm accessing that (or trying to!), it involves a letting go of self and ... Holy Shit. Again! OK, I just saw that differently, but can't say how. So normally I would visualise emptiness and generate as the Buddha, so like Steph is gone, like Steph has to be gone for there to be an infinite. But doing the Zooming in on Peace it was more like Steph's still here and the infinite is here as well and that's OK. What were those words I just quoted?
"this two that is really less than one"
But as I was just writing then, it appeared like yeah, Steph and the infinite are here because we're inseparable, because there is no separate Steph, just all the stuff that's labelled Steph, - appearances of form, feeling, discrimination, etc., and that stuff is an inseparable part of everything. It's not quite clear, but it's clearer than it was.
Whatever we can experience. God is everything. One and one together. This experience, this thought, this sound, whatever it is, that’s just how God is showing up in this moment.
that is how God is showing up at this moment, as the One who experiences, as well as the experience.
Nothing special. Of course, that means everything is special.
This is what I wrote when I was doing the 'tracking back past where the 'I' arises':
Shit! The awareness that I-ness arises in is beginningless and is deathless. Holy shit!!! This be-ing, this awareness, is already the deathless! ‘Wide open is the door of the deathless.’ It goes back before this life and continuous to the next. In fact, it doesn’t go anywhere. There is nowhere to go. (The same as with time.) It just is. It has no beginning or end. No size in space. The is no place that it is or isn’t. Though it feels more like it is!! But how can it be anything, when its only quality is emptiness and awareness?
Gong: ‘… but you can’t kill me…’
What else. OMG the Beginning Thinking stuff! Realising clearer than ever that everything is passing away even as we become aware of it, like a car that we don't see until it's already passed us! The fleetingness and transience of everything. I love how this (and loads of Dharma) stuff matches up with quantum physics. Everything appearing and disappearing constantly. Nothing remaining for more than the most fleeting glimpse.
And the Zooming in on death. I wrote:
What a relief! No more having to be ‘me’. What a release, what a relief! What freedom! To no longer be tied to this body! So why do I care about it now! Just let go of attachment to it. Let go of identifying with it!
Clearly, I am very excited by all of this. And still have more of it to work through.
When I read over what I've written, it doesn't look like anything new. But I know it at a deeper level.
Again, my deep appreciation and gratitude for all you are giving. This way of working is such a good fit for me. For years I've had a bunch of practices that I've promised to do every day, and I'm hopeless at that! It creates almost as much guilt as it does benefit. This really direct stuff is amazing.
Thank you xxx

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Anastacia42
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Re: Letting go

Postby Anastacia42 » Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:34 pm

Steph, this is great! So glad it's working for you.

You don't have to do it all in one day, you know?

We did this Friday afternoon, all day Saturday & Sunday. By the way, that's me laughing my ass off after the Zooming In on Death, if you listened to that one.

I'm so glad they were recorded. If I had a computer with a disk drive I'd upload the even numbered ones. Can't do it from work for security reasons & can't do it at home because my Chrome book has no disk drive at all.
it involves a letting go of self
I think you got there eventually, but there's no "self to let go of. It never existed. It was just a made up story.

So, please... take your time. Keep reporting in. Ask questions, if you have any. I love all of them & still use them.

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Stop acting so small. You are the universe in ecstatic motion."

~ Rumi

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Padmasukha
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Re: Letting go

Postby Padmasukha » Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:12 pm

Hello again. I've just seen that my last post is posted three times! It was really glitchy when I was trying to post it, sorry. Thanks for your reply. This evening I did the 'Pasts Future Futures Past' one. My first thought was that I didn't know what was meant by where in space are my thoughts and memories, because I feel they're all in my head. But actually, when I bring things to mind, they do kind of have a direction and distance. And if I move them around, they do seem to lose their potency. It makes a bit of a nonsense of them. Or exposes them for the insubstantial nonsense they are? Interesting to note that a couple of difficult situations I brought to mind were directly in front of me, but found I could push the different scenes around, like postcards on a table but in free space. Or just set a light to some of them so they burned up! This stuff is so fascinating.
I think you got there eventually, but there's no "self" to let go of. It never existed. It was just a made up story.
This is becoming ever clearer, Thank you xxx

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Anastacia42
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Re: Letting go

Postby Anastacia42 » Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:51 pm

Yes!
exposes them for the insubstantial nonsense they are
Sounds like you're relaxing & getting into those.

Great!

Let me know when you do "Where is I?"

And let me know if you have any questions.

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Stop acting so small. You are the universe in ecstatic motion."

~ Rumi

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Padmasukha
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Re: Letting go

Postby Padmasukha » Fri Oct 01, 2021 9:27 pm

Hi Stacy. I thought I'd just say Hi, so you don't think I've just disappeared! I've been leaving the 'Where is I?' one till last, and will probably get to it over the weekend 😊 xxx

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Anastacia42
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Re: Letting go

Postby Anastacia42 » Sat Oct 02, 2021 12:46 am

Sure.

How does it feel to do these?

What are you noticing?

Much love,
~ Stacy

"Stop acting so small. You are the universe in ecstatic motion."

~ Rumi

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Padmasukha
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Re: Letting go

Postby Padmasukha » Sat Oct 02, 2021 7:34 pm

Hi there. Thanks for your reply.
How does it feel to do these?
It feels cool to do these! I'm really enjoying it. It also feels sometimes insightful or liberating, and sometimes frustrating or confusing because I'm not getting it, - the words don't lead to anything beyond the words, and I just see things as I habitually see them. I'm getting much stronger reactions to some than others. I'm also finding that the recordings generally get a deeper response more easily than the transcripts, because the input seems more direct than reading. I seem to respond more strongly to the voice than the printed word here. But I also have strong responses to what you write here.
What are you noticing?
I'm noticing that I'm aware more often of how I'm seeing things. More moments of stepping back and questioning. More moments of looking at my direct experience, and separating what's actually experienced and what's overlaid on that.
I've been noticing a lot how I kind of indulge in different moods, like 'today I've felt really tired all day.' And so then looking at what that's made up of. What do I mean by 'tired.' What is it that I'm putting that label on? It's mostly physical sensations, and thoughts laid over that, which can also perpetuate the feelings, and perpetuate the 'I am.'
I've been really looking for what it is that I label 'I.' I've been looking at this when lying awake at night, so I'm very relaxed. There's a line of inquiry into how much of what I think of as Steph could be taken away and yet for this consciousness to still feel like 'me.' And I imagine that if there was no body, no sense experience coming from activity, no formal thought, there is still a kind of flavour to the experience of being alive in a body, to the sensation of it. Then if I look beyond that bodily sensation, it's like there's this familiar palette of psycho-spiritual states, and without those there is just awareness, but that too is familiar, and that's why it still feels like it's 'my' awareness, - because I know it.
I'll write more tomorrow.
With love and thanks xxx

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Anastacia42
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Re: Letting go

Postby Anastacia42 » Sat Oct 02, 2021 8:31 pm

Hi Steph,

Some very detailed noticing there. The Awareness is great.

Try to stick with posting Direct Experience - what do you See, Hear, Feel, Taste, or Smell Notice Thought Arises, but let the content go.
it's like there's this familiar palette of psycho-spiritual states, and without those there is just awareness, but that too is familiar, and that's why it still feels like it's 'my' awareness, - because I know it.
Yes, just "Awareness." Yes, Awareness is known. It has always been there, but check, where is this "I" who supposedly knows it?

Can you do anything to stop Awareness? Can you control it? If not, how could that be a "me" doing anything?


There is a pointer on Doership for this, but I hesitate to pile on another pointer when you have 13 of them in the DropBox. Just for fun, please post a list of which ones you are doing well with and which ones are challenging. Maybe pointers from me about them will help.

Also, we still have an agreement for you to post every day, ideally with Direct Experience as you look.

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Stop acting so small. You are the universe in ecstatic motion."

~ Rumi

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Padmasukha
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Re: Letting go

Postby Padmasukha » Sun Oct 03, 2021 5:48 pm

Hi Stacy. Thanks for your reply.
Try to stick with posting Direct Experience - what do you See, Hear, Feel, Taste, or Smell Notice Thought Arises, but let the content go.
OK. Thank you.
it's like there's this familiar palette of psycho-spiritual states, and without those there is just awareness, but that too is familiar, and that's why it still feels like it's 'my' awareness, - because I know it.
Yes, just "Awareness." Yes, Awareness is known. It has always been there, but check, where is this "I" who supposedly knows it?
There isn't one. There is just awareness, and this is what it feels like. It is familiar, known. But the knower and the known are not separate.
Can you do anything to stop Awareness? Can you control it?
No. Awareness seems to come and go, and there is no control over when it is there or not there. A lot of the time it seems like appearances are arising without awareness being present. There are just appearances and reactions/responses with no conscious awareness. Just running on autopilot. Oh, wait. All appearances are appearing to awareness? Or within awareness? Actually, there is nothing separate there, is there. Awareness and appearances are the same stuff? Whatever the hell that is, ha ha!
If not, how could that be a "me" doing anything?
There is no me. Just a familiar awareness.
Just for fun, please post a list of which ones you are doing well with and which ones are challenging. Maybe pointers from me about them will help.
Thank you. I'll get onto this tomorrow.
Also, we still have an agreement for you to post every day, ideally with Direct Experience as you look.
Thank you. This is my misunderstanding, sorry. On the 27th when you wrote 'Let me know when you've done 'Where is I?', I thought you meant for me to work through them and let you know when I got to the last one. I prefer it when we're posting every day :-)
Much love and thanks xxx

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Anastacia42
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Re: Letting go

Postby Anastacia42 » Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:18 pm

Hi,

Sorry for the misunderstanding. Yes, it's best to pay how each pointer goes each day.

How does it FEEL to see no self?

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Stop acting so small. You are the universe in ecstatic motion."

~ Rumi

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Anastacia42
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Re: Letting go

Postby Anastacia42 » Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:18 pm

POST, not pay... missed the typo.
~ Stacy

"Stop acting so small. You are the universe in ecstatic motion."

~ Rumi

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Padmasukha
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Re: Letting go

Postby Padmasukha » Mon Oct 04, 2021 5:48 pm

Hi Stacy.
Just for fun, please post a list of which ones you are doing well with and which ones are challenging. Maybe pointers from me about them will help.
Ok, so the ones I love so far are:
All It Is
Zooming in on Death
Beginning Thinking
Zooming in on Peace
Other ones I liked:
Past Future, Futures Past
Ones where I get what to do but haven't got a strong response to yet:
Perceiving Receiving
Wordless
Re-pairing the Universe
Ones I don't really get:
Chaos Creation. I just don't understand what this is about or what I should be doing.
Release and receive. I don't get a bodily response.
Ones I haven't done yet:
Edge of Space
End Comments
Dissolving
Where is I

I'm aware that there is fear present about getting to the end of these, because I think maybe I still won't get it at all, ha ha!!! I need to let go of that!
How does it FEEL to see no self?
I don't really have a feeling of it. It's more just like I know it at some intuitive level, but there's no strong feeling there. I look, and there's nothing there, but it doesn't feel like a great revelation. It still feels like my sense of it is pretty tenuous.

With love and gratitude xxx

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Anastacia42
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Re: Letting go

Postby Anastacia42 » Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:47 pm

Hi Steph,

This is good. The only thing missing is connecting the pointer with FEELINGS in your body. That is essential.
Release and receive. I don't get a bodily response.
Remember back when you wrote:
4. Did you notice any differences in the body? Describe this.
Mostly for both exercises I noticed tension arising, linked to concentration, curiosity, scrutiny. When noticing sensations when my eyes are closed, I keep remembering a teacher recently inviting us to observe the sensations in the body and consider how they would appear if we didn't know what shape we were! I notice that a lot of my body has no sensation, and that some parts have strong sensations; pain from the pressure of sitting, etc. With the eyes closed, the sensations appear like areas of light in darkness, and make a peculiar map of the 'body', adding to the sense that it is all illusory!
I think maybe you were looking for something else?
I probably should have stuck with this more. The Sensations are important. I don't care what you think. And someone said that, "Understanding is the booby prize." Who cares? We can think we understand and nothing changes. You must connect with Direct or Actual Experience. Remember this from Colored Socks in our early posts?

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that.

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)


Nothing else. That is actual. Thoughts, descriptions, stories - are all made up.

Put aside the DropBox for now. Those will have much more relevance and impact when you connect to Sensation.


What I would like for you to do is (maybe again) remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Here we count anything, lies we think of as "big" or "small" that "matter" or don't "matter."

How are you? I'm fine. No, your knee hurts, but you don't feel like discussing it with the grocery clerk.

It's a lie. A seemingly "bigger" one will work better for this exercise.

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely. What is found?


Once this is clear, you can actually get more out of all of the pointers.

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Stop acting so small. You are the universe in ecstatic motion."

~ Rumi

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Padmasukha
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Re: Letting go

Postby Padmasukha » Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:37 pm

Hi Stacy. I love that "understanding is the booby prize" 😄
Put aside the DropBox for now. Those will have much more relevance and impact when you connect to Sensation.
OK
What I would like for you to do is (maybe again) remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?
I've been doing this today, but haven't found any bodily sensation there. Does it have to be lying? With minor lies, like saying something's OK when I'm not really happy about it, it just doesn't seem strong enough to produce a bodily sensation. And incidents I can remember of telling bigger lies are so long ago that they don't produce a feeling either.
I have noticeable sensations with other memories, like embarrassment and anxiety. Should I look more closely there, or persevere with trying to zoom in more on lying?
With love and thanks xxx


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