mimi&me

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Luchana
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Re: mimi&me

Postby Luchana » Fri Sep 03, 2021 10:54 am

Hi Leona,
Hi Luchana, thanks for today, always fun and super helpful.
you are most welcome :-)

You did a good looking. Let;s see some of the replies.
Nothing can be immersed in the story because there is no-one to do it. But identifying happens and so do labels.
Is there an expectation that identifying and labels will stop happening?
Why would they? Just because you've seen through the illusion of a separate self this doesn't mean that all conditioning will drops in an instant.

And when I do mistakenly feel the self has returned,
Who or what can mistakenly feel the self has returned?

What true self means?
The empty beingness that watches and experiences, when the 'I' is seen through.
How true self is experiencing exactly?
It watches, enjoys the show, in the present moment observing life unfold.
Are there two selves? True and fals?
No there is only one consciousness, the other you refer to is illusory.
Is there such a thing as true self in reality?
How is the true self experienced exactly?
As an image, as a sound? Or as an imagination?

And what about one consciousness?
What is "one consciousness" when you observe it here now in this very moment?


Make just a plain sober looking. Nothing special, no imagination, no thought involved and needed.

I will contunue with the rest of the replies later... just look at these for now.

Much love,
Luchana
Look. There is no you dreaming.

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mimi8me
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Re: mimi&me

Postby mimi8me » Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:56 pm

Hi Luchana ; )

Is there an expectation that identifying and labels will stop happening?
Not in the least, no. There will just be more awareness of them if attension is given to them.

And when I do mistakenly feel the self has returned,
Who or what can mistakenly feel the self has returned?
There are words and sensations that are felt and labelled.


Is there such a thing as true self in reality?
No, there is no true self. But there is nontheless an experience of life happening.

How is the true self experienced exactly?
As an image, as a sound? Or as an imagination?
It isn't! Feelings and sensations continue to be experienced without the 'I' or the 'true self' present.

And what about one consciousness?
There is nothing that is individual, just awareness. (Not too sure about one consciousness now?? Your thoughts please)

What is "one consciousness" when you observe it here now in this very moment?
This idea feels too concrete now and it's not even observable. Again it seems to be simpler ie. there's just experience and awareness now in this moment. That's all that is seen right now by this typer!

Sending love,
L x

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Luchana
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Re: mimi&me

Postby Luchana » Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:53 pm

Hi Leona,

you did a good looking.

No, there is no true self. But there is nontheless an experience of life happening.
Is this life happening happens to someone or something? To a true self for example?
Feelings and sensations continue to be experienced without the 'I' or the 'true self' present.
Yes, feeling and sensations continue, no doubt about this. The same question differently:

Can you see the true self, hear the true self? Or you can only think about the true self?

Not in the least, no. There will just be more awareness of them if attension is given to them.
There is nothing that is individual, just awareness. (Not too sure about one consciousness now?? Your thoughts please)
This idea feels too concrete now and it's not even observable. Again it seems to be simpler ie. there's just experience and awareness now in this moment. That's all that is seen right now by this typer!
The word awareness pops up several times in your reply. Let's look at this closer together

Does “experience” needs an awareness to be what is? Check it.
How exactly can awareness be sensed?
How exactly can awareness be experienced?
Can it be touched, seen, smelled, heard? Or it is just an imagination?
What if the awareness is just another label?

Are the awareness and experience two things?
Is awareness something other than, different to, or separate from experience (what is)?
Can you find anything at all that is called "awareness", or do you just find experience (what is)?

Explore each question vigilantly and curiously.

Much love
Luchana
Look. There is no you dreaming.

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mimi8me
Posts: 70
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Re: mimi&me

Postby mimi8me » Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:34 pm

Hi Luchana,

Is this life happening happens to someone or something? To a true self for example?
No, there's no one for it to happen to but life continues nontheless.

Can you see the true self, hear the true self? Or you can only think about the true self?
Only think about it cos it's a concept.

The word awareness pops up several times in your reply. Let's look at this closer together
Does “experience” needs an awareness to be what is? Check it.
'Experience' is a story/label that doesn't need awareness.

How exactly can awareness be sensed?
Hhmmm, awareness can't be sensed because awareness is a sensing.

How exactly can awareness be experienced?
It notices what is happening now.

Can it be touched, seen, smelled, heard? Or it is just an imagination?
No, it's not a physical object that can be labelled by the physical senses. I don't think it's imaginal, although I assume you're pointing to that. It feels like a sensing.

What if the awareness is just another label?
Is 'sensing' something another label too?
If I talk to an animal, either dead or alive it doesn't matter which, and verifiable facts are relayed to me and then confirmed by their Guardian, this to me is real, though, again, it can't be physically touched. We have more than the 5 senses (spatial awareness is one).
How would you explain psychic ability?

Are the awareness and experience two things?
Yes. Experience is story/a label.

Is awareness something other than, different to, or separate from experience (what is)?
Awareness is sensing what is.

Can you find anything at all that is called "awareness", or do you just find experience (what is)?
If everything is silent and then a faint tingling is briefly heard and I am quiet and listen intently to see if it is heard again, this is awareness (sensing) happening in the gap between tinglings.

It seems you were pointing to experience being real and awareness as simply a label. I could not see this although I tried and probably needs more investigation. I'll revue what I've written and see if there is more clarity.

Much love,
Leona

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mimi8me
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Re: mimi&me

Postby mimi8me » Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:58 pm

How exactly can awareness be experienced?
Can it be touched, seen, smelled, heard? Or it is just an imagination?
It notices what is happening now.
No, awareness is not a physical object that can be labelled by the physical senses. It's not imaginal, although I assume you're pointing to that. It feels like a sensing.


If I put my hand in the fire, I experience pain. This is a story, an experience. However, Awareness is what is experiencing the pain.

One can have awareness of touching something, but one can't touch awareness.

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mimi8me
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Re: mimi&me

Postby mimi8me » Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:37 pm

However, Awareness is what is experiencing the pain.
Sorry no, awareness is not 'experiencing' the pain. Pain is felt and then spontaneous action is taken to remove the hand.

I still see that awareness can't be touched, seen, smelled or heard. Looking or noticing is not awareness either. But I don't see that it's imagination either. WTF!

Love L x

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Luchana
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Re: mimi&me

Postby Luchana » Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:58 am

Hi Leona,

thank you for your thorough investigation!

All the questions are pointers to look is there such a thing as awareness in reality at all?
But let me expand a little bit..

Sure, the words are usful for communication, otherwise we wouldn't communicate, but what they do is only point to reality, to what is. There are words which point to objects, to material things - like table, chair, door. There are words like university, town, port that are used for communication, but can not be found as a thing and the third are words like awareness or like self. These are just labels they point to something that can't be found in reality.

So the word awareness is a very common spiritual belief/concept, which is quite enchanting, since this romantic idea leaves a room for the imaginary self to be something, awareness, real. And this imaginary self is masquerading as awareness in a form of pleasant sensations, this self is untouched by the ‘harsh reality of life’. Since it’s just observes what happens, but always untouched by anything, even by death. So this idea is very attractive… since I can live on forever… I will never die… I can never be hurt… I am always pure and untouched.

But awareness is not more than a label.

Can you see this?

Much love,
Luchana
Look. There is no you dreaming.

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mimi8me
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Re: mimi&me

Postby mimi8me » Mon Sep 06, 2021 6:06 pm

Thank you again for all your support Luchana, it's always hugely appreciated.
- and the integration video you shared was like a soothing balm.

But awareness is not more than a label.

Can you see this?

Hmmm still can't see it's only a label. So is the act of 'sensing' something only a label too? As well as the term 'abiding in presence' (which I never use cos it sounds so pretentious and have no idea what it really means) ?
When one sits and enters into the silence and stillness within ie, during meditation, and this 'space/state' is rested in, what word would you use to describe this poised, quiet beingness?

Thank you.

Will keep on looking xx

ps. Presence is simpy being in the now, which is all we can ever do.

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Luchana
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Re: mimi&me

Postby Luchana » Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:29 pm

Hi Leona,
Thank you again for all your support Luchana, it's always hugely appreciated.
- and the integration video you shared was like a soothing balm.
I am smiling :-)
Hmmm still can't see it's only a label. So is the act of 'sensing' something only a label too? As well as the term 'abiding in presence' (which I never use cos it sounds so pretentious and have no idea what it really means) ?
When one sits and enters into the silence and stillness within ie, during meditation, and this 'space/state' is rested in, what word would you use to describe this poised, quiet beingness?
It's ok. Let me put it that way.

If I asked you as a child, point your finger to yourself, where would you point to?
As a child, would you talk about awareness?
As a child, would you have any idea about the concept/label of awareness?


Much love,
Luchana
Look. There is no you dreaming.

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mimi8me
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Re: mimi&me

Postby mimi8me » Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:27 pm

Hi Luchana,

If I asked you as a child, point your finger to yourself, where would you point to?
The heart/chest area would be pointed to.

As a child, would you talk about awareness?
No.

As a child, would you have any idea about the concept/label of awareness?
No, but just because it would not be understood doesn't disprove it for me.

I'm also 'aware' (and have actually checked, lol) that you never use the phrase "be aware of your thoughts". Instead you say 'notice' or 'look at...' and this choice of wording feels more direct where as 'be aware of' seems a little woollier.

... so still looking...


Ok so yesterday I had a very busy day out and about doing 'stuff'. I was open and free throughout, with no 'I', just beautifully empty.
That is until I returned home and became identified with some worldly problems that needed sorting out. The thoughts were heavy and bothersome and because I was quite tired from all the busyness, I was more susceptible to seccumbing to them.
The apparent 'I' returned and remains today, despite my attemps to see through it. I think that had I remained vigilant yesterday when feeling the 'disappoint' feelings that arose, then I may have been able to not identify and attach to them and, as a result, I wouldn't have taken ownership of them.
So today there is the 'I' (even though it has been seen through already) but it is here now and I am hoping that it will lift when there is a relaxation. Any suggestions please Luchana? Do I have to look more closely to see through it or might it lift with no effort in a natural way?

Many thanks.

Leona x

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mimi8me
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Re: mimi&me

Postby mimi8me » Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:27 pm

...Awareness is a word used for noticing with all of ones senses.

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Luchana
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Re: mimi&me

Postby Luchana » Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:10 am

Hi Leona,

I'm also 'aware' (and have actually checked, lol) that you never use the phrase "be aware of your thoughts". Instead you say 'notice' or 'look at...' and this choice of wording feels more direct where as 'be aware of' seems a little woollier.

... so still looking...
Exactly. And you did a good looking.
The thoughts were heavy and bothersome and because I was quite tired from all the busyness, I was more susceptible to seccumbing to them.


Does the heaviness, tiredness and bothersome suggesting in any way that something is missing?
What brings this information?
If you look at these sensations without labbeling them - they are just sensations, nothing more.

Any suggestions please Luchana? Do I have to look more closely to see through it or might it lift with no effort in a natural way?
Look at this for a whole day:


If you cannot experience something, then isn’t that just a mental stuff?


Do you see that there is only 2 options:

- either experiencing something
- or THINKING or IMAGINING something?

Is there a third option? – check. What do you find?

Much love
Luchana
Look. There is no you dreaming.

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mimi8me
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 7:45 am

Re: mimi&me

Postby mimi8me » Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:30 pm

Hi Luchana,

Does the heaviness, tiredness and bothersome suggesting in any way that something is missing?
Yes, it feels as though the no-I-ness is missing but it may be more correct to say that the lovely 'no-I' space or blue sky is obscured by clouds. But the actual feeling is that it has gone for good.

When the experience of attachment to 'I' thoughts happens and feels so cumbersome, each time I fear the 'lovely space' will never return. However, today I am in the no-I-ness and the clouds have cleared.

When in the 'flow' there is always the feeling that I must stay vigilant so as not to fall prey to the thoughts/story attachment, because if I do slip into indentification with appearances all the loveliness is lost and done for.

Yesterday I was unable to break the clouds but this morning I sat and investigated 'what is this sense of self I feel?' I explored these sticky 'I' feelings and they dissipated. My fear is that if I do not do the investigation then 'flow' will not return/will take forever to return/may never return. I know these are only thoughts but I won't and can't wait that long! - a feeling of pressure to shift builds. When I look to see who is creating this sense of rising pressure, it is the imaginary self. So I keep on trying until I disolve.

I don't want to have to try. There is so much passion for freedom that rises up to save myself, i think it might be a bit exhausting.


What brings this information?
The imaginary self brings everything when I'm in it. The 'I' cloaks everything including the truth.


If you look at these sensations without labbeling them - they are just sensations, nothing more.
That is true, however when the self is present they feel concrete and permenant.
With no self they are transitory and unthreatening.

If you cannot experience something, then isn’t that just a mental stuff?
Not completely clear what exactly you mean here? (it may be a translation/grammer thing)

Are you saying that if I can't experience something here and now, then it's not real in my immediate experience and therefore it doesn't exist.
eg. Despite having seen through the self 2 days ago, because I could not see through it yesterday then the no-self does not exist, only the self exists as this is my immediate, now experience?? So the memory of experiencing no-self 2 days ago becomes just a story/mind stuff? Because all I ever have is my now -in this moment- experience. Is that what you're suggesting?



Do you see that there is only 2 options:

- either experiencing something
- or THINKING or IMAGINING something?
Yes, I see this.
But my memory of no-self and how lovely an experience it was was the driver for me to look into the feelings inside that generated this sense of 'I-ness' in the hope, and with the intention, that when seen through it would dissolve. And it did dissolve, so the thinking/imagining/memory served to get me out of it!


Is there a third option? – check. What do you find?
I experienced stuckness in 'I' (now)
I remembered the 'no-I' (thoughts)
I enquired into the 'I-ness' and it dissolved. (now)

No, there are only two options as far as I can ascertain.

Thank you.

Much love
Leona

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mimi8me
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Re: mimi&me

Postby mimi8me » Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:07 pm

But my memory of no-self and how lovely an experience it was was the driver for me to look into the feelings inside that generated this sense of 'I-ness' in the hope, and with the intention, that when seen through it would dissolve. And it did dissolve, so the thinking/imagining/memory served to get me out of it!

Gosh, I made that sound complicated.
I see how the mind/ego is pushy when it has full reign.
If oscillation occurs, how to deal with it is a big question for me and I feel I want to be prepared:
a) accept any experience that arises.
b) investigate what is presenting.
- anything you'd like to add would be most appreciated!

Perhaps there is nothing one can do but wait for grace?

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mimi8me
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Re: mimi&me

Postby mimi8me » Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:39 am

If I asked you as a child, point your finger to yourself, where would you point to?
If you were to ask me right now... I am nowhere and everywhere, unlimited space, an expansive, open, non-localised everything. Space moving in space.


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