Ready to open

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No idea
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Re: Ready to open

Postby No idea » Fri May 11, 2012 1:37 am

Hi Cam,
It appears your familiar with the concepts and process I spoke of so now we need to "Break" the indentifaction, with all things "Andrew"...
Knowing nothingness isn't a concept, if it is for someone then they are really no better off as the mind will try and run everything through this "idea" or "concept" that they don't exist or there is no "I" etc. This would lead to thoughts chasing more thoughts and no true understanding and cutting away of all the mind clutter. The answers to your questions came from closing the eyes, observing and then reporting the experience(s). Experiences of the past are what initiated this understanding and for the most part, in my case seeing it again usually isn't far away, but there are still the occasional times this mind re-identifies with "I", "me" etc. These exercises are helping to keep the clarity more in the forefront of my mind and easy to experience, rather than recollecting the memory of past where this was first or subsequently seen.

I am familiar with inquiry in many forms, so am comfortable using it.

Your advise earlier to look at areas when anger, irritation etc. was helpful as it has helped me notice some areas where identity was hiding, so thanks for that. Usually I would address the surface thoughts with inquiry, but instead I went to the root which was helpful.
Jed Mckenna once said one of the most profound and humbling experiences one can have, is witnessing the death of another person...
Seems to be a few Jed McKenna fans around here, contradictory in my eyes proclaiming "I am enlightened" as he does in his books. Also, he is quick to dismiss other's experiences as being BS because they don't coincide with his.
Alright, now please attempt this uninterrupted...pick a quite time and spot...( preferably in a bed.) Okay, now pretend that your approaching death, (not in a horrible situation.) just that in fact you've lived a full life, and accepted the fact death is imminent....Now think....your body is weakening...Your mind is letting go... Tell me the rest of the "story"....
Truthfully, this was difficult for me, not because there was fear, but more because it was hard to really feel the exercise as real despite trying it twice. I noticed, the idea of breathing stopping brought fear, so did sadness when thinking of missing my family. I also glimpsed the body falling away and awareness remaining. Fear arose when I imagined no longer existing. None of it was particularly intense fear, I am pretty comfortable with fear as I know it to be a close friend more than anything. Not sure what else I was supposed to get out of this?

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Cam-RT
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Re: Ready to open

Postby Cam-RT » Fri May 11, 2012 6:09 am

Whether you think so or not Andrew you're making progress...
but there are still the occasional times this mind re-identifies with "I", "me" etc.
The illusion isn't destroyed, just seen for what it is...;^)
Seems to be a few Jed McKenna fans around here, contradictory in my eyes proclaiming "I am enlightened" as he does in his books. Also, he is quick to dismiss other's experiences as being BS because they don't coincide with his.


Ya, Byron Katie too..she's a bit hard for me to connect with at times...But they're all just sign posts along the path towards the truth like "Buddha's rotting head on a stick" who cares? Just keep going...
Fear arose when I imagined no longer existing. None of it was particularly intense fear, I am pretty comfortable with fear as I know it to be a close friend more than anything.
You hit the bullseye! "ceasing to exist"... Some would even call this same outcome as "Falling down the Rabbit Hole".
But like I said if done properly, death is more real and easier to connect with...

We need to continue this until the fear is passed and continuing into the realm of "non-existence"...or "The Void"..

Fear itself is not to be feared, It's a Mechanism. Working perfectly as a security system. It's protecting something from being found out...

When you look, just let it be here... Find out where in the body it is being felt, then bring it closer, invite it to share in it's wisdom...It's fine to just let it be...Respect it...Bow to it...Then look what's behind the fear.

Keep up the great work! let me know how your doing....Take Care, Cam-RT.
The illusion isn't destroyed...Just seen for what it 'Is'
Thoughts vs. Reality----->Reality always wins.
"Have courage...Don't give up!!"

http://cam-rt.blogspot.com

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Re: Ready to open

Postby No idea » Mon May 14, 2012 1:28 am

We need to continue this until the fear is passed and continuing into the realm of "non-existence"...or "The Void"..

Fear itself is not to be feared, It's a Mechanism. Working perfectly as a security system. It's protecting something from being found out...

When you look, just let it be here... Find out where in the body it is being felt, then bring it closer, invite it to share in it's wisdom...It's fine to just let it be...Respect it...Bow to it...Then look what's behind the fear.

Keep up the great work! let me know how your doing....Take Care, Cam-RT.
Not sure what your direction is from here? Continue contemplating non-existence until there is no more fear? There isn't much fear to begin with so pretty tough to drum it up.

I have experienced the void before. Long time ago now. There was still awareness, so unclear how we nullify this awareness?

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Re: Ready to open

Postby Cam-RT » Mon May 14, 2012 6:36 pm

Good morning Andrew...
Not sure what your direction is from here? Continue contemplating non-existence until there is no more fear? There isn't much fear to begin with so pretty tough to drum it up.

I have experienced the void before. Long time ago now. There was still awareness, so unclear how we nullify this awareness?
So you've journeyed into the void, you're familiar with it, that's good...and fear isn't a problem, then what is it that you've learned from this "still awareness"?

Here's a couple of questions, take your time and answer them when you're ready...

Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

Does Andrew exist??
The illusion isn't destroyed...Just seen for what it 'Is'
Thoughts vs. Reality----->Reality always wins.
"Have courage...Don't give up!!"

http://cam-rt.blogspot.com

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Re: Ready to open

Postby No idea » Wed May 16, 2012 2:57 pm

Hi Cam,
So you've journeyed into the void, you're familiar with it, that's good...and fear isn't a problem, then what is it that you've learned from this "still awareness"?
What I learned at the time, which is several years ago now, was that I had formerly thought of myself as the collection of thoughts that comprised "Andrew, i, me, etc." but that in reality, I was the awareness that all of that arose in.
Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
Me is just a thought, like all others. In my case, what I do at times is superimpose the "me" or "i" thought over my heart centre where that sense of essence resides.
Does Andrew exist??
You have already asked this question, previous answer:

No, nothing exists without "brain support"/ story. Just awareness. To add, Andrew is just a label, a story, I don't believe in this label as an identity.

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Re: Ready to open

Postby Cam-RT » Wed May 16, 2012 6:02 pm

Good morning Andrew...

As per our conversation, it does seem that you have already performed the work and have seen the truth for yourself...

As you said, on this journey "Further" is key in deepening this awareness...Rather than quibbling, we should go straight to the confirmation questions...

1) ( one more time for the record.) Is there any real ' I '  in any sense, shape or form?

2)   Explain in detail what the illusion of self is, when it starts and how it works.

3) How does it feel to see this?

4) How would you liberate someone who has never encountered this " No-You" concept before?

5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

On this last question please reflect back, to that point where you "popped" or realized the shift in awareness, take your time and feel free to elaborate on these questions ...

Many Thanks to you...Cam-RT.
The illusion isn't destroyed...Just seen for what it 'Is'
Thoughts vs. Reality----->Reality always wins.
"Have courage...Don't give up!!"

http://cam-rt.blogspot.com

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No idea
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 3:10 pm

Re: Ready to open

Postby No idea » Thu May 17, 2012 3:21 pm

Hi Cam,

As per our conversation, it does seem that you have already performed the work and have seen the truth for yourself...
As you said, on this journey "Further" is key in deepening this awareness...Rather than quibbling, we should go straight to the confirmation questions...
No quibbling is happening from my perspective, just two people openly sharing their viewpoint of the truth without fear of doing so, which is helpful for both of us. Thanks again Cam, I am really grateful for all your help and have much more clarity thanks to your unique perspective. I will answer what i can:
1) ( one more time for the record.) Is there any real ' I '  in any sense, shape or form?
There is no "I", it is a thought/ label that points to a sense of awareness or beingness. Consciousness had previously associated itself as being one and the same as this thought/ label. This is also true for other words that point to our true nature like "me" and "self" and "my", they are thoughts/ labels but not what we are.
2)   Explain in detail what the illusion of self is, when it starts and how it works.
The illusion of self is the confusion that happens in the mind between particular thoughts like "I", "me", "self", "my", etc. and our awareness/ consciousness/ true nature. The confusion is the false association between these I/me thoughts and awareness as being one and the same thing which is not true. In my case, this association occurred in the heart center, so every time any of those I/me/ self/my thoughts were used, they were overlaid or placed onto the center of beingness, so they were perceived as being one and the same thing. So there was an actual location to this illusion.

The illusion of self creates a separation between all objects that arise in the field of awareness and a small limited reference point of "I", "me", that things happen to. It creates a sense of taking things personally, it encourages judgement and comparison and a general sense of unease. It also blocks us from knowing our true nature.

Hard to say when it starts as it is an unconscious thing, but likely in the acquisition of language phase. At some point we believe that this is what we are.
3) How does it feel to see this?
Shock at first over the confusion, then peacefulness
4) How would you liberate someone who has never encountered this " No-You" concept before?
I'll leave this unanswered for now, but important to note that I can't liberate anyone, people can only liberate themselves with a willingness to search for the truth of what they are.
5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
Unquenchable desire for the truth.
On this last question please reflect back, to that point where you "popped" or realized the shift in awareness, take your time and feel free to elaborate on these questions ...
Thanks again for all your help Stan, the deepening of this will continue on forever. Lot's still to realize :)

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Re: Ready to open

Postby No idea » Thu May 17, 2012 6:33 pm

I wish there was someway to edit posts here, somehow wrote Stan instead of Cam! Sorry not sure where that came from!


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