The time has come

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Zoi
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Re: The time has come

Postby Zoi » Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:39 am

I would say,It is body sensations +reaction + specific thoughts, all labeled “ separate self “
Good ovservations.
What is labbeling a thought "separate self"?
Isn't' it also a thought?
Yes lebbeling a thought separate self is also a thought.
But what is lebbeling a thought? What ever I say will be also a thought. The belief is that there must be a mechanism that puts thoughts in order, some kind of logic,but this is also a thought. So I don’t really know what is lebbeling a thought
What is doing the thinking really?

Can a thought think?

Is thinking a doing or it is a happening?
Again I don’t really know what is doing the thinking
A thought can not think
Thinking is a happening
And what happens when you rename this feeling (of I) a just a feeling?
Nothing is happening, it is the same, as there no identification with an I that is feeling
Am I feeling or Theresa is just feeling happening?
Feeling is just happening
I mnhnnyymy yymy y h quite

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Zoi
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Re: The time has come

Postby Zoi » Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:53 am

Hi luchana
I would say,It is body sensations +reaction + specific thoughts, all labeled “ separate self “
Good ovservations.
What is labbeling a thought "separate self"?
Isn't' it also a thought?
Yes lebbeling a thought separate self is also a thought.
But what is lebbeling a thought? What ever I say will be also a thought. The belief is that there must be a mechanism that puts thoughts in order, some kind of logic,but this is also a thought. So I don’t really know what is lebbeling a thought
What is doing the thinking really?

Can a thought think?

Is thinking a doing or it is a happening?
Again I don’t really know what is doing the thinking
A thought can not think
Thinking is a happening
And what happens when you rename this feeling (of I) a just a feeling?
Nothing is happening, it is the same, as there no identification with an I that is feeling
Am I feeling or There is just feeling happening?
Feeling is just happening
At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?
I have done this exercise long time ago. Then I had noticed that with out the I there was relaxation no sense of obligation or responsibility so it felt truer
I have done the exercise again but this time there was no difference as the I isn’t believing that is doing anything
What is here without labels?
There is nothing here. There is silence, peace
Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
Labels just describe they can not affect the experience
Did you notice any differences in the body?
The first time there was a relaxation. This time I have not noticed any difference
Love
Olga

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Luchana
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Re: The time has come

Postby Luchana » Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:35 pm

Hi Olga,

But what is lebbeling a thought? What ever I say will be also a thought. The belief is that there must be a mechanism that puts thoughts in order, some kind of logic,but this is also a thought. So I don’t really know what is lebbeling a thought
Does a thinking implies a mechanism? A logic?
Does a thinking implies a thinker?
So, If there is one you wil be able to find it.


And "I don't really know" is the honest reply.
Isn't is strange? To not know?
How does it feel?

What ever I say will be also a thought.
Is there a belief that a thought based something can be a real experience?
If you cannot experience something, then isn’t that just a mental stuff?

Do you see that there is only 2 options:
- either experiencing something
- or THINKING or IMAGINING something?

Is there a third option? – check.
What do you find?
Labels just describe they can not affect the experience
Exactly. Thought is coming almost immediately after the experience of whatever is happening and describing it/labeling it.

Can you see this?



Much love
Luchana
Look. There is no you dreaming.

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Zoi
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Re: The time has come

Postby Zoi » Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:57 am

Hi Luchana
But what is lebbeling a thought? What ever I say will be also a thought. The belief is that there must be a mechanism that puts thoughts in order, some kind of logic,but this is also a thought. So I don’t really know what is lebbeling a thought
Does a thinking implies a mechanism? A logic?
Thinking can not imply a mechanism or logic. these are conclusions , which is fantasy not reality. is it correct to say that thoughts are random and out of this a story is created ? I see sometimes that irelevent thoughts pop up out of nowhere that dont seem to have logic
Does a thinking implies a thinker?
Thinking does not imply a thinker. there is no control over thoughts. Thought sometimes there is attachment to them and they seem personal that I am the thinker.
So, If there is one you wil be able to find it.
No, I can not find it. More noticing is needed on this.
And "I don't really know" is the honest reply.
Isn't is strange? To not know?
How does it feel?
When I first wrote that answer it felt strange and discomforting . Now it feels nice .
What ever I say will be also a thought.
Is there a belief that a thought based something can be a real experience?
Yes there is this belief when old wounds come up, the fearful thoughts are believed as real experience . The ilusion is huge
If you cannot experience something, then isn’t that just a mental stuff?
Yes that is the problem , the mental stuff!!
Do you see that there is only 2 options:
- either experiencing something
- or THINKING or IMAGINING something?

Is there a third option? – check.
What do you find?
Yes , both of them to happen almost simuntenesly
Labels just describe they can not affect the experience
Exactly. Thought is coming almost immediately after the experience of whatever is happening and describing it/labeling it.

Can you see this?
Yes I see that they do not affect the experience, but they affect the way you feel about the experience

Thank you, great questions!
Olga

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Luchana
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Re: The time has come

Postby Luchana » Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:54 pm

Hi Olga,

is it correct to say that thoughts are random and out of this a story is created ? I see sometimes that irelevent thoughts pop up out of nowhere that dont seem to have logic
Exactly. Thought = imagination=story=never real

For a whole day question every single thought, and always check if a thought is about direct experience (something real wchich is happening in the moment) or it is just more imagination (story)

Explore and and give some examples. What is an actual/direct experience and what is story.

Thought sometimes there is attachment to them and they seem personal that I am the thinker.
Who or what is attaching to thoughts?
Can it be seen or touched? Smelled, heard?

When I first wrote that answer it felt strange and discomforting . Now it feels nice .
:-) Agree. It's nice to not know.
Yes , both of them to happen almost simuntenesly
good. Is there someone or something making those?
Or choosing between these two options?
Yes I see that they do not affect the experience, but they affect the way you feel about the experience
There could be preferences yes, but does a thought have some super power?
To affect the experience for example?

Thank you, great questions!
You are most welcome :-)

Much love
Luchana
Look. There is no you dreaming.

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Zoi
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Re: The time has come

Postby Zoi » Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:37 pm

Hi luchana
I need some more time. I will reply to you tomorrow
Love
Olga

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Luchana
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Re: The time has come

Postby Luchana » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:55 am

Hi Olga,
thank you for letting me know.

Yes, sure - take your time.

Much love,
Luchana
Look. There is no you dreaming.

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Zoi
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Re: The time has come

Postby Zoi » Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:57 am

Hi luchana
These two days were dramatic
exactly. Thought = imagination=story=never real

For a whole day question every single thought, and always check if a thought is about direct experience (something real wchich is happening in the moment) or it is just more imagination (story)

Explore and and give some examples. What is an actual/direct experience and what is story.
I noticed that when there is action thoughts are about direct experience. If I sit quietly and observe the thoughts most of them are imagination

Example. I got home to see my dog acting strangely . She could not move her back legs her breathing was fast. Her eye was full of blood and she couldn’t hold her pie . These thoughts are about direct experience and you could say that , this is also a story . If there was no story I would see only colors and heard sounds . There would be no thinking of something is wrong with her. (Imagined thought ) I don’t know what would happen in that case .

She had a stroke the doctor said. The word stroke brings so many beliefs in mind about the future, that tears are running . There is a pain of loss . Knowing that there is no me that is in pain, it just softens the pain . Also I noticed that the mind didn’t bring memories of her from the past to create more drama which also softens the pain.
Who or what is attaching to thoughts?
Can it be seen or touched? Smelled, heard?
Nothing is attached to thoughts that can be seen touched smelled or heard.
Yes , both of them to happen almost simuntenesly
good. Is there someone or something making those?
Or choosing between these two options?
Nothing is making those thoughts. They are given
No one to choose they are automatic
Yes I see that they do not affect the experience, but they affect the way you feel about the experience
There could be preferences yes, but does a thought have some super power?
To affect the experience for example?
From the first paragraph it seems that the thought of “something is wrong with my dog “ ,may have saved it, by taking it to the doctor. If this thought didn’t come up or was not believed as true it may have been dead now.

Sorry if I am out of subject
Thank you
Olga

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Luchana
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Re: The time has come

Postby Luchana » Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:45 pm

Hi Olga,
These two days were dramatic
Hope now the waters are calmer.
I noticed that when there is action thoughts are about direct experience. If I sit quietly and observe the thoughts most of them are imagination
Exactly. Very good observation.
She had a stroke the doctor said. The word stroke brings so many beliefs in mind about the future, that tears are running . There is a pain of loss . Knowing that there is no me that is in pain, it just softens the pain . Also I noticed that the mind didn’t bring memories of her from the past to create more drama which also softens the pain.
Oh, I can sence the sadness through the words...
The feeling of loss, the sadness are so normal and they are welcome to be here.
Just because the self is seen to be an illusion it doesn't mean that the feelings will stop appearing.
Various emotions and feelings will arrise. Till the end of this organism.

Just notice:
does the pain, sadness, feeling of loss belong to something or someone?
Where is the owner of those?

Nothing is making those thoughts. They are given
No one to choose they are automatic
Very good looking.

From the first paragraph it seems that the thought of “something is wrong with my dog “ ,may have saved it, by taking it to the doctor. If this thought didn’t come up or was not believed as true it may have been dead now.
The thought “something is wrong with my dog “ is about what's happening in the moment - not fantasy.
If this thought didn’t come up or was not believed as true it may have been dead now.
And this thougth is telling a story.

Can you see the difference?

Much love,
Luchana
Look. There is no you dreaming.

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Zoi
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Re: The time has come

Postby Zoi » Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:09 pm

Hi luchana
Hope now the waters are calmer.
Yes she is alive and peaceful at the moment 🙏🏻
The feeling of loss, the sadness are so normal and they are welcome to be here.
Just because the self is seen to be an illusion it doesn't mean that the feelings will stop appearing.
Various emotions and feelings will arrise. Till the end of this organism.
All these feelings are generated by thoughts of guilt of not being good enough to her of not appreciating, her unconditional love .
All these feelings have to do with a me
I am not crying for her. I am crying for the supposed me
Of course these are mental stuff and need deep looking
Just notice:
does the pain, sadness, feeling of loss belong to something or someone?
Where is the owner of those?
All emotions have to do with an I thought. Behind every emotion there is a thought about an I . It is like action-reaction mechanism. They arise to this organism
The thought “something is wrong with my dog “ is about what's happening in the moment - not fantasy.
Thank you, I’ll take that .
If this thought didn’t come up or was not believed as true it may have been dead now.
And this thougth is telling a story.

Can you see the difference?
I see the difference but I also see that a thought can influence the reaction.

Thank you
Love Olga

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Luchana
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Re: The time has come

Postby Luchana » Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:28 pm

Hi Olga.
And this thougth is telling a story.

Can you see the difference?
I see the difference but I also see that a thought can influence the reaction.
Does a thought have super power?
To influence the reaction?
How exactly this happens at experience?
Is it possible to observe the process of influencing the reaction?

Or it is just more labels add on the experience of whatever reaction is happening?

Are you waiting for a thought to move the body from a flying stone?
Or the reaction is happening on its own?

Much love,
Luchana
Look. There is no you dreaming.

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Zoi
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Re: The time has come

Postby Zoi » Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:36 pm

Hi luchana
My dog has almost recovered from the stroke. I have a second chance!
Does a thought have super power?
To influence the reaction?
When I say reaction I mean mentally. So yes it can
How exactly this happens at experience?
Is it possible to observe the process of influencing the reaction
Hateful thoughts generate hateful reactions, for instance.
I know that I confuse the mental stuff again but you know, I can’t help it. It is happening .
Or it is just more labels add on the experience of whatever reaction is happening?

yes this is also happening to the mental reactions
Are you waiting for a thought to move the body from a flying stone?
Or the reaction is happening on its own?
No this is happening on its own and I call it more like action

Love
Olga

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Luchana
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Re: The time has come

Postby Luchana » Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:51 pm

Hi Olga,

sorry for delay...
My dog has almost recovered from the stroke. I have a second chance!
:-) nice. we all have a second chance constantly :-)
To influence the reaction?
When I say reaction I mean mentally. So yes it can
Go to the tap and let the water run. I mean literally. See how the water flows.
Look at the water for a while.

Can you see in the same way LITERALLY thoughts influencing the reactions?
Or it is just another thought which say so?


You said this:
yes this is also happening to the mental reactions
And than this:
No this is happening on its own and I call it more like action
So in the first way someone or something making this reactios?
And in the second it is happening on its own?

Can you see the contradiction here?

Again
What can a thought do?

Does a thought have intention?

Or volition?


Can a thought do anything? For example to influence something?

Is a thought an entity with intention to influence?

And who/what is it exactly that is being influenced by a thought?

Is there you and thoughts? Just you don't have control over thoughts?

or there is no 'you'/self therefore there is no control?

Which feels to be more true when experience looked at directly?


Much love
Luchana
Look. There is no you dreaming.

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Zoi
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:15 am

Re: The time has come

Postby Zoi » Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:14 pm

Hi luchana
Go to the tap and let the water run. I mean literally. See how the water flows.
Look at the water for a while.

Can you see in the same way LITERALLY thoughts influencing the reactions?
Or it is just another thought which say so?
From my experience I have seen that some thoughts are causing phycological suffering. This suffering can trigger reactions like aggressiveness . I have seen that with out these thoughts there are no aggressive reactions. Now I see that thoughts emotions and phycological reactions are inherent patterns . I can’t know exactly how they work
Or it is just more labels add on the experience of whatever reaction is happening?
yes this is also happening to the mental reactions
Here I meant that Yes I see this lebbeling happening
So in the first way someone or something making this reactios?
And in the second it is happening on its own?

Can you see the contradiction here?
Both are happening on it’s own.
Again
What can a thought do?
A thought believed can drive you crazy!
Does a thought have intention?
No
Or volition?
No volition
Can a thought do anything? For example to influence something?
A thought can influence the way you feel
Is a thought an entity with intention to influence
No it is not an entity with intention but it can influence the emotional state
And who/what is it exactly that is being influenced by a thought?

The emotional state
Is there you and thoughts? Just you don't have control over thoughts?

some times when there is phycological suffering it seems like that .
or there is no 'you'/self therefore there is no control?

Which feels to be more true when experience looked at directly?
thoughts of a me having or not control are not there when there is no phycological suffering . It feels true , relaxed
Peaceful

Thank you
Olga

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Luchana
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Re: The time has come

Postby Luchana » Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:39 am

Hi Olga,
Let's look here
A thought believed can drive you crazy!
and here:
A thought can influence the way you feel
Let thoughts bring a picture of a lemon. A juicy yellow lemon. The lemon is slised. Now taste the imaginary slice of lemon.

And notice who is it that reacts - you or the body?

The body react like the lemon is real, but Is there a real lemon?

And now notice the same way where is a me?
Notice the thoughts that are coming about me, notice the reaction of the body linked to these thoughts and look for a REAL me.
Is there a real me ? Where?


Much love,
Luchana
Look. There is no you dreaming.


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