A Feast of Lanterns

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Jadzia
Posts: 1863
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:04 pm

Re: A Feast of Lanterns

Postby Jadzia » Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:48 pm

Thank you!

Love,
Jadzia

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Locutus1452
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:46 pm

Re: A Feast of Lanterns

Postby Locutus1452 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:31 am

Thank you for your patience. I'm back.
Think of what you had for meal this morning.
Can what you had be directly experienced now?
Only residually, my stomach says "I've just eaten"! but the taste of it, no. That's a memory, direct experience of a thought rather than a sensation.
Are you the thinker and controller of your thougths? The director of them?
When I think, "what do I need to do today?" or in the next hour and allow the conclusion to direct my actions then yes I appear to be the thinker of the thoughts. Let's put it this way, if they belonged to someone else without my intentions and aspirations I might end up going for an ice-cream or mugging someone! They are not random ideas, they appear to be aligned (roughly) with me and my life.
Do you decide what thoughts appear and what not?
Well most of the time I'd admit they do seem to be flowing from some part of my brain that knows what's to be done tussling with another bit that is or isn't reluctant to take action. Whoever "wins" gets to set the actions .. from which flow more thoughts, more or less directed.

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Jadzia
Posts: 1863
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:04 pm

Re: A Feast of Lanterns

Postby Jadzia » Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:22 pm

Only residually, my stomach says "I've just eaten"! but the taste of it, no. That's a memory, direct experience of a thought rather than a sensation.
Your stomach speaks or is this just a sensation (pressure in stomach region) and a thought?
You find nothing in DE, no smell of the food, its taste or the way it felt in the mouth, yes, it is thought.
Thoughts are noticed, but can the content of a thought be experienced in DE?
When I think, "what do I need to do today?" or in the next hour and allow the conclusion to direct my actions then yes I appear to be the thinker of the thoughts. Let's put it this way, if they belonged to someone else without my intentions and aspirations I might end up going for an ice-cream or mugging someone! They are not random ideas, they appear to be aligned (roughly) with me and my life.
Appear? Are you not sure? Can you ever be sure? How is it known that there appears to be a thinker and that it appears that you are the thinker of your thoughts?
Well most of the time I'd admit they do seem to be flowing from some part of my brain that knows what's to be done tussling with another bit that is or isn't reluctant to take action. Whoever "wins" gets to set the actions .. from which flow more thoughts, more or less directed.
If you are only interested in what you get in your direct experience, can you know of a brain? Or know how and where thinking happens?

Love,
Jadzia

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Locutus1452
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:46 pm

Re: A Feast of Lanterns

Postby Locutus1452 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:33 am

Thoughts are noticed, but can the content of a thought be experienced in DE?
The 'contents'? no.
Appear? Are you not sure? Can you ever be sure?
Well I guess I wouldn't be on this path if I was so 🥴 I'd have to say no again to both.
How is it known that there appears to be a thinker and that it appears that you are the thinker of your thoughts?
There are thoughts. No doubting that. If they are not mine, whose are they? When I say "mine" I mean mine in the same sense that my shoes are mine i.e. its a useful convention. And I have privileged access to them. Nobody else can read my thoughts unless I give 'permission' by writing or speaking. This almost complete control over their content and distribution is stronger than a mere convention ... it implies ownership. As I say, who's else are they? and they are not just noise ... they have structure and coherence. Intelligence. Again, strongly pointing to an intelligence as 'owner'.
If you are only interested in what you get in your direct experience, can you know of a brain?


I'm not only interested in Direct Experience. I'm very interested in what a focus on it might bring but think of an animal who is much more focussed on DE or, say, a person with a severe neurological defect who has no memory beyond 5 mins. Are their lives enhanced? Both move in and out of fear and anxiety as they are confronted with a world without being able to make sense of it: responding only to what they experience without a narrative to comprehend and temper raw experience with a narrative that allows them to be more than just... response.

Yes, the Buddha talked about "in the seen, just the seen. In the heard just the heard" but was he advising a literal desired end result or just pointing to a loosening of identification with experience. Emotional rather than prescriptive advice?

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Jadzia
Posts: 1863
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:04 pm

Re: A Feast of Lanterns

Postby Jadzia » Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:46 pm

The 'contents'? no.
It is good to know that one.
Appear? Are you not sure? Can you ever be sure?
Well I guess I wouldn't be on this path if I was so 🥴 I'd have to say no again to both.
It is sometimes helpful to discern between what really can be known and that which are guesses or assumptions - take a good look.

You know what we do here, we have a look at the illusion of self. There is something but it is taken for something else. Like a misconception, a misunderstanding, like labelling something in the wrong way.
The understanding we all fell for is that the self is the controller of life, the decider, chooser, thinker, observer and so on. That there is a my life, my body, my past and so on.
What do you think will change when you look through the illusion?
What will be lost, what will stay?
Would for example something be lost if it is not the you/the self being the decider and controller?
What would be gained?
And what wouldn't change?

Take your time and ponder the questions for a while. Allow all emotions, thoughts which might turn up and share what you find.

Love,
Jadzia


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