I am determined to see things differently

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forgetmenot
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Re: I am determined to see things differently

Postby forgetmenot » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:36 am

Hi Tricksee,

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities, objects and emotions simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell,
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation.
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought.

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go, giving some examples please.

Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Tricksee
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Re: I am determined to see things differently

Postby Tricksee » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:17 pm

Hi Kay
Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go, giving some examples please.
Going to work, simply = thought
Picking up the car keys, simply = sensation
Hearing the car keys jingling, simply = sound
Seeing the blue car, simply = image/colour
Unlocking the car door simply = sensation/sound
Smelling the car interior simply = smell
Sitting in the car seat simply = sensation
Seeing and putting the key in the ignition simply - image/sensation
Turning the ignition and starting the engine simply = sensation/sound
Feeling the air conditioner blowing on my face simply = sensation
Putting the car in gear simply = sensation/sound
Pulling out of the driveway simply = image

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Tricksee
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Re: I am determined to see things differently

Postby Tricksee » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:37 pm

Kay, Just a foot note I would like to add to my exercise. I realized as I was doing the exercise how out of presence I had been because I was always already at work in my mind or thinking about how much traffic there would be. if I had enough gas,if I was too early or going to be late...

Thank you so much for that!

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Re: I am determined to see things differently

Postby forgetmenot » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:10 pm

Hey Tricksee,

Lovely examples, thank you! I would ask that you continue doing the exercise for several days…so that you become crystal clear of what AE is and how to ‘see’ it, so to speak.
Kay, Just a foot note I would like to add to my exercise. I realized as I was doing the exercise how out of presence I had been because I was always already at work in my mind or thinking about how much traffic there would be. if I had enough gas,if I was too early or going to be late...
So, in those moments what is the AE? When thinking appears to be about work, traffic, gas etc...what is the actual experience?

There is an idea here that because you weren’t aware of other raw experiences that somehow you weren’t present and that those raw experiences were happening without your awareness. This = the idea of separation. But we will look at that later on. You can only ever be HERENOW…where else is there?

Close your eyes and sit quietly for 10-15 minutes.
Watch what focus/attention does. In other words, watch how you are aware of only what you are aware of in that moment.

Focus on focussing attention itself.
Do you move it, or it moves by itself?
Hold focus on breath - see how it moves to thoughts, sensations, feelings, sounds.
Is this something you control?
What moves attention?
Is thought in control of attention?


Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Tricksee
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Re: I am determined to see things differently

Postby Tricksee » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:39 am

Hi Kay
So, in those moments what is the AE? When thinking appears to be about work, traffic, gas etc...what is the actual experience?
Thought.
Focus on focussing attention itself.
Do you move it, or it moves by itself?
It seems to move by itself
Hold focus on breath - see how it moves to thoughts, sensations, feelings, sounds.
Is this something you control?
No i do not control it, it seemed to grow, expand and I was becoming aware of sounds, sensations,thoughts, things seemed to just come into my awareness I did not go looking for them they were just there.
Is thought in control of attention?
No attention is just noticing a thought...

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Re: I am determined to see things differently

Postby forgetmenot » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:57 am

Hello Tricksee,
So, in those moments what is the AE? When thinking appears to be about work, traffic, gas etc...what is the actual experience?
Thought.
Yes…lovely! :)
Hold focus on breath - see how it moves to thoughts, sensations, feelings, sounds.
Is this something you control?
No i do not control it, it seemed to grow, expand and I was becoming aware of sounds, sensations,thoughts, things seemed to just come into my awareness I did not go looking for them they were just there.
Nice :) We will look further at the idea of control a little later on :)

Okay, here is an exercise which points out the difference between actual experience and content of thought. Thoughts either point to AE or they point to thoughts about thought. Thought, in and of itself, does not contain any experience, otherwise you would be able to taste the word ‘sweet’ and feel the word ‘hot’ and hear thunder when the word ‘thunder’ appeared!

There are two types of thoughts:
#1 Thoughts with words “Here is cup”
#2 Visual mental images of a ‘cup’

So I invite you to do this exercise:
Think of a cup. Get a very clear picture in your mind. See clearly the size, shape, colour and volume of the cup. Notice whether it is decorated or plain. Notice whether it has a handle. Notice whether it is heavy or fragile. Do you have a clear picture in mind?

Now, can you physically grasp that image of a cup?
Can you pour tea into it?
Can you drink from it?

Is there a ‘real’ cup or just a mental image of a cup?
Is the content of the mental image (the cup) ‘real’?


Now let’s look at the word thought “here is a cup”….

Can a 'real' cup be found in the thought itself?

"Here is a cup" is the thought; the ensuing thoughts of what a cup is and does, what it is made from etc are the content of that thought. What do those thoughts point to exactly? Do they point to colour, taste, smell, sensation or sound? Or do they simply point to actual experience of thought and thought only?

So thoughts and mental images are actual experience only as arising thoughts (words and mental image), their ‘presence’ cannot be denied. However their contents, what they are about, what they are pointing to (like the cup) are not ‘real’, they are just fantasies. Can you see this?

Over the course of the next day or so, I'd like you to notice the content of thoughts. Whenever there is an arising thought or mental image, check whether its content (what it’s about, what it is pointing to) is REALLY happening, or the content is just pure imagination. Let me know how it goes.


Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Tricksee
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Re: I am determined to see things differently

Postby Tricksee » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:50 pm

Hi Kay
"Here is a cup" is the thought; the ensuing thoughts of what a cup is and does, what it is made from etc are the content of that thought. What do those thoughts point to exactly? Do they point to colour, taste, smell, sensation or sound? Or do they simply point to actual experience of thought and thought only?
The Experience of a thought only
So thoughts and mental images are actual experience only as arising thoughts (words and mental image), their ‘presence’ cannot be denied. However their contents, what they are about, what they are pointing to (like the cup) are not ‘real’, they are just fantasies. Can you see this?
Yes. as I was looking at this it seemed like a flash but I realized that I or this body is no different The body like a cup the contents, skin, eyes, teeth, heart, liver.....different image but same substance nothing. right now the feeling of tears welling up is happening....I will get back to you.

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Re: I am determined to see things differently

Postby forgetmenot » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:03 pm

Good morning Tricksee,
Here is a cup" is the thought; the ensuing thoughts of what a cup is and does, what it is made from etc are the content of that thought. What do those thoughts point to exactly? Do they point to colour, taste, smell, sensation or sound? Or do they simply point to actual experience of thought and thought only?
The Experience of a thought only
Exactly. The content of thought, in and of itself, contains no experience whatsoever. It only ever points to more thought.
So thoughts and mental images are actual experience only as arising thoughts (words and mental image), their ‘presence’ cannot be denied. However their contents, what they are about, what they are pointing to (like the cup) are not ‘real’, they are just fantasies. Can you see this?
Yes. as I was looking at this it seemed like a flash but I realized that I or this body is no different The body like a cup the contents, skin, eyes, teeth, heart, liver.....different image but same substance nothing. right now the feeling of tears welling up is happening....I will get back to you.
Nice insight :)

Love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: I am determined to see things differently

Postby Tricksee » Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:40 am

Hi Kay
Over the course of the next day or so, I'd like you to notice the content of thoughts. Whenever there is an arising thought or mental image, check whether its content (what it’s about, what it is pointing to) is REALLY happening, or the content is just pure imagination. Let me know how it goes.
It's Funny But when I was looking at this for some reason sound came to the forefront I recalled after doing the previous exercise of actual experience how when I was doing the dishes I noticed every sound the clinking of cutlery the chinking of the dishes the running water. I became playful with all of it. It was almost like a melody, like I was really hearing for the first time (not sure how to put it in words). Anyway It came to my mind when I was reading the words for this part of the exercise because the thought arose of "there is no sound" So I Imagined someone reading them out loud to me but, there was still no sound. Yet I thought i understood them. Where did that all come from? Thought! I perused this a little further to image. I went outside and there was a full moon with clouds passing by. I thought if I close my eyes I can picture the same image, and there it was the same. I opened my eyes and the clouds had cleared the moon was shining brightly and was smiling at me as if to say "got ya" I gave a chuckle because there were no eyes to see and it was the same image. Where did that all come from? Thought! Where does thought come from imagination, Nowhere. Wow!!!

Just a little note I will be away starting tomorrow (Thursday) night and so can post tomorrow depending on time. If not I can post Sunday night.

Thank you so much for your time Kay

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Re: I am determined to see things differently

Postby forgetmenot » Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:57 am

Hey Tricksee,
It's Funny But when I was looking at this for some reason sound came to the forefront I recalled after doing the previous exercise of actual experience how when I was doing the dishes I noticed every sound the clinking of cutlery the chinking of the dishes the running water. I became playful with all of it. It was almost like a melody, like I was really hearing for the first time (not sure how to put it in words). Anyway It came to my mind when I was reading the words for this part of the exercise because the thought arose of "there is no sound"
How wonderful Tricksee! Yes, there is no ‘sound’ as thought describes it. If you drop the label ‘sound’, and what IS, simply IS ie THIS/experience exactly as it is.
So I Imagined someone reading them out loud to me but, there was still no sound. Yet I thought i understood them. Where did that all come from? Thought!
Great question! Where does sound (known) end and the knowing of it begin? Can a dividing line be found between the known and the knowing of it, or is there just knowingknown….no division?
I perused this a little further to image. I went outside and there was a full moon with clouds passing by. I thought if I close my eyes I can picture the same image, and there it was the same. I opened my eyes and the clouds had cleared the moon was shining brightly and was smiling at me as if to say "got ya" I gave a chuckle because there were no eyes to see and it was the same image. Where did that all come from? Thought! Where does thought come from imagination, Nowhere. Wow!!!
If you look very very carefully at actual experience by dropping all the labels ie sound, thought, smell, taste etc. What remains?

If you look at a table, and for the sake of this experiment, let’s say it is the colour brown. Now totally ignore the label ‘table’ and you are then left with the label ‘brown’. Totally ignore the label ‘brown’ and you are left with the label ‘colour’. Now ignore the label ‘colour’ and what are you left with?


Post when you can, I appreciate you keeping me in the loop.

Love, Kay

Love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: I am determined to see things differently

Postby Tricksee » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:28 am

Hello Kay.
Great question! Where does sound (known) end and the knowing of it begin? Can a dividing line be found between the known and the knowing of it, or is there just knowingknown….no division?
Knowning-known (I will expand on this a little further down)
If you look very very carefully at actual experience by dropping all the labels ie sound, thought, smell, taste etc. What remains?
Stillness-acceptance.
If you look at a table, and for the sake of this experiment, let’s say it is the colour brown. Now totally ignore the label ‘table’ and you are then left with the label ‘brown’. Totally ignore the label ‘brown’ and you are left with the label ‘colour’. Now ignore the label ‘colour’ and what are you left with?
I looked at this while i was away. At first I found it difficult to look at a table and see...So I switched it to me and started to peel away the layers, My Name,body, size, weight, shape, colour. Various roles/characters... Who Was seeing/labeling this? I felt the presence of something watching and than something watching the watching. It was so still and just there. Present. Tears welling up (why do I keep welling up with tears?) Anyway I moved or shifted that to the exercise of the table and i became aware of the space around the table and it was no different. There was a stillness in all of it! So that is really how the answers to the above 2 questions came about

Thank you Kay, I am not very good at explaining things and normally not very wordy. This all came with a lot of constant looking and at the same time in a flash. If that makes sense?

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Re: I am determined to see things differently

Postby forgetmenot » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:43 am

Hi Tricksee,
If you look very very carefully at actual experience by dropping all the labels ie sound, thought, smell, taste etc. What remains?
Stillness-acceptance.
There would have to be a someone/something for there to be ‘acceptance’. Accepting what exactly?

When you remove all labels that overlay experience ie sound, colour, thought, smell, taste, sensation…..then what you are doing is putting to the side, the interpretations and meaning of these labels. What you are left with, is THIS/experience exactly as it is. Don’t get hung up on this at this moment in time. Needing to see through the nature of thought is what will assist with these types of questions when I ask them again. We are going to begin to look at the nature of thought now.

Here is a step-by-step description of how to look at thoughts. First thing is to sit for at least 10-15 minutes quietly somewhere, several times throughout your day. Close the eyes and just notice thoughts. Don’t engage with any thought, just notice them.

Looking for the gap is a way to slow the thoughts, as the objective of this exercise is to observe each and every thought as it arises and subsides.

1. Notice the current thought that is present.
Like when you sit observing the body, a thought might arise “this is my feet” or “here is a pain” or “my breathing is too quick” or “I am bored with this exercise” or “I have better things to do” or any sorts of thoughts.

2. This thought will pass and another thought will come. So just observe this thought passing.

3. Then wait for the next thought to come.

4. When the next thought is present, just notice it, and see how it passes.

5. Then wait for the next thought to come.

6. Repeat #4 and #5 many-many times.

Between the 2 thoughts there is a gap. It can be very short or subtle, just a second or a few seconds before the next thought come in.

This is how to look at thoughts.
Looking how they come and go.
And observing the short gap between them.
Noticing how the current thought is passing.
And waiting for the next thought to come.

Please do the following exercise:
Throughout your waking day, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts.
Let me know how you go.

Can a thinker of thought be found between the gaps?


Love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Tricksee
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Re: I am determined to see things differently

Postby Tricksee » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:23 pm

Hi Kay
Can a thinker of thought be found between the gaps?
It took a little while to notice the gaps as my attention always wanted to follow the thought and react to it, how intensely
depended on the emotional charge. The more I looked at it the more i noticed the gaps and there was a silence/stillness that seemed to be... No Thinker. Like looking between the words on a page. There is still a white page in the background.

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Re: I am determined to see things differently

Postby forgetmenot » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:17 pm

Hi Tricksee,
Can a thinker of thought be found between the gaps?
It took a little while to notice the gaps as my attention always wanted to follow the thought and react to it, how intensely
depended on the emotional charge. The more I looked at it the more i noticed the gaps and there was a silence/stillness that seemed to be... No Thinker. Like looking between the words on a page. There is still a white page in the background.
And if you look closely, without thought, how is it known that a gap has been reached?

The purpose of the exercise was more about you becoming aware of thoughts and how each thought comes and goes. Looking for the gap is a way to slow the thoughts, as the objective of this exercise is to observe each and every thought as it arises and subsides. So looking for the gap was a way of pointing you to see how one thought follows another, as a means for you to see how 'thinking' seemingly works.

So, sit quietly and observe thought and also observe thoughts throughout your waking day. To observe each and every thought, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts which seemingly denotes an ending of one thought and the beginning of another. So noticing the gap helps you to see each thought as it appears.
Let me know how you go.


Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Tricksee
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Re: I am determined to see things differently

Postby Tricksee » Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:14 am

Hi Kay
And if you look closely, without thought, how is it known that a gap has been reached?
There is no thought, simply quiet when a gap has been reached, a space, some seem longer than others. I did notice that the "mind" does not seem to feel comfortable with the gap at times and so another thought follows...
So, sit quietly and observe thought and also observe thoughts throughout your waking day. To observe each and every thought, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts which seemingly denotes an ending of one thought and the beginning of another. So noticing the gap helps you to see each thought as it appears.
Let me know how you go.
When I was really "watching" thoughts felt very odd they would come and go out of nowhere, made up in each moment... Sometimes they seemed to follow a certain subject line and at other times random thoughts popped in...Huh..

Thank you Kay


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