I don't know

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Iana
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:24 pm

I don't know

Postby Iana » Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:25 pm

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That "self" its an illusion, that "I" its only a thought

What are you looking for at LU?
Looking for guidance , someone to help me to see the truth, to end the seeking, i dont know what else to write(( not very good at expresing myself, and i dont know how to fill the 200 characters required

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I am spending almost all of my time here on LU reading threads and seeking for somthing to end the seeking , read Ilonas books too, i had before a lot of expectations, imagining how it should be, but by only noticing them, writing them down, dont seem to apear anymore, i just want to end the seeking, every night i go to sleep saying thats all, i give up, i dont want to look for nothing more, and the next day im again here on LU looking for somthing to click, somthing for my mind to realise THIS IS IT

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Started 5 years ago with self-improvement books , and 2 years ago spiritual books, in the beginning i was reding them with pleasure, but i strted to notice that i was looking for somthing, that every book i finished didnt give me the answers, and buying them like crazy, youtube videos Alan watts, mooji, rupert spira, eckhart tolle, done exercises that found on LU in threads

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

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Matthew
Posts: 2349
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 2:58 pm
Location: Your dreams

Re: I don't know

Postby Matthew » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:33 am

to see the truth
That "self" its an illusion, that "I" its only a thought
That is only one way to express truth. (An incomplete one by the way. We can come back to that at the end of this dialogue if you wish to).
Once you find the truth, you will express it in your own, probably very different way.
Be completely open for how ever it might look like. Be wide open for how ever it might appear. It'll be a very very unexpected instance, in any case, I tell you that!


I am spending almost all of my time here on LU reading threads and seeking
Can you put aside ALL seeking material and activity besides this conversation?
I'd need a clear YES from you here.


i just want to end the seeking
What you're seeking must not be sought after since it is already present.
Right here right now.
In every instance.

Please have a look around and write down five things that are clearly present.
Then again have a look around and write down five things that are clearly absent.
First there is a mountain,
Then there is no mountain,
Then there is.

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Iana
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:24 pm

Re: I don't know

Postby Iana » Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:21 pm

I'd need a clear YES from you here
.
BIG YES
Please have a look around and write down five things that are clearly present.
The image/seeing: the phone in front of me, the hands typing
The sound/hearing: noise from outside, my daughters playing downstairs
Sensations: the body laying on the bed, hands holding the phone
And thinking: baby shouldn't wake up now, because i have to finish the answer
And an aftertaste in my mouth of coffe, and a thought: i don't like the aftertaste, thats why i don't like coffe, i have no idea why did i drink it
Then again have a look around and write down five things that are clearly absent
Hmm... i don't know... i can't say what is absent , when I'm trying to look what is absent i find only my mind looking for something that that is absent

Thank you!

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Matthew
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Location: Your dreams

Re: I don't know

Postby Matthew » Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:33 pm

i find only my mind looking for something

Is a thing called "mind" present like the phone in front of you?

It's a thing called "mind" present like the body lying on the bed?


Are you actually experiencing a mind?
If so, please describe elaborately how and where you are experiencing it!
First there is a mountain,
Then there is no mountain,
Then there is.

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Iana
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:24 pm

Re: I don't know

Postby Iana » Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:07 pm

Is a thing called "mind" present like the phone in front of you?
No
It's a thing called "mind" present like the body lying on the bed?

No
Are you actually experiencing a mind?
If so, please describe elaborately how and where you are experiencing it!
No, mind can't be experienced , it's only a label for the happening thoughts

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Matthew
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Location: Your dreams

Re: I don't know

Postby Matthew » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:33 pm

That's right.

Be precise with language.
There is no such thing called "mind" which does things.
There is just thought appearing.
It would be best to completely spare the misnomer "mind" altogether.


here on LU looking for something to click
The coin will drop effortlessly in its time.
No need to strive for anything anymore.
You can relax, enjoy these unique last apparent meters.
It is already out of control.

In the meantime, we can just chat a little, shall we!

I am spending almost all of my time here on LU reading threads and seeking
What exactly are you seeking for anyway?
Some other realm? Truth? Bliss? Oneness?
In your very own words!
(Whatever it is, if it is accurate, you will soon see that it is already happening)
First there is a mountain,
Then there is no mountain,
Then there is.

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Iana
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:24 pm

Re: I don't know

Postby Iana » Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:17 am

No need to strive for anything anymore.
You can relax, enjoy these unique last apparent meters.
It is already out of control.
After i registered the relaxing happened by itself)
In the meantime, we can just chat a little, shall we!
Ok
What exactly are you seeking for anyway?
Some other realm? Truth? Bliss? Oneness?
In your very own words!
Why do i find it hard to answer this question? Reading spiritual books, i was telling myself i don't want to become enlightened or somthing else, because it's taking a long time and practice bla bla, so i was looking for advices how to become more calm, more in the present moment, how to meditate, then in one day was thinking is this enlightenment so hard to achive?, maybe it is a easy way) and i found a guy on YouTube said something about LU, so i came to check, read Ilona s books, became very intrested in this liberation, saying :this seems easy, you just have to look)))) to see that everything is happening, so I'm looking for: to really see that everything is happening, not all the time reminding myself that all is happening.
Mmm what else I'm looking for?...i don't know.. confused right now)
In the moment i was writing the registration form, i was seeking for a question), or for a phrase), to make me see what everyone says it's seeing, everything happening, everything is more easy...
English isn't my native language, sorry for any mistakes.

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Matthew
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Location: Your dreams

Re: I don't know

Postby Matthew » Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:25 am

No worries, your English is more than good enough!

so I'm looking for: to really see that everything is happening
This is a great insight, that makes life much much easier.
This insight is sufficient for the level of depth, that we're aiming at in a gate-conversation.
It does not describe absolute truth, however.
This insight is still located in the realm of relative truth.
From the perspective of absolute truth, nothing really is happening.
We can come back to that at a later point if you wish to!

I'm looking for: to really see that everything is happening
How is that even an insight to begin with!?
How could everything not just be happening?
What would be the opposite?
First there is a mountain,
Then there is no mountain,
Then there is.

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Iana
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:24 pm

Re: I don't know

Postby Iana » Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:21 am

I'm looking for: to really see that everything is happening
How is that even an insight to begin with!?
Happening by itself , that life doesn't need a doer.
For example: looking outside the window, i see the trees moving, birds flying, people walking, cars moving. I don't know how to explain, i understand that is no doer, but its like i should see it differently, like a movie

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Matthew
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Location: Your dreams

Re: I don't know

Postby Matthew » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:21 pm

like a movie
Isn't this sense of doership also a part of the movie?
First there is a mountain,
Then there is no mountain,
Then there is.

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Iana
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:24 pm

Re: I don't know

Postby Iana » Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:43 am

like a movie
Isn't this sense of doership also a part of the movie?
Yes, it is...
Honestly, thoughts appear : i should write more, this is not an answer, i'm coming again with: i don't know what to write, i hate this "i don't know".
And I'm watching all this thoughts, all day noticing thoughts, saying this is another thought.

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Matthew
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Location: Your dreams

Re: I don't know

Postby Matthew » Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:30 am

Yeah, this thought loop has to go around in circles and collide with itself many times.
That's just what happens in the process.
Observe it with enjoyment!


i hate this "i don't know"
What do you actually know?
Do you actually know anything?

Name three things that you are 100% certain of.
But without relying on assumptions, beliefs and fantasy additions.
First there is a mountain,
Then there is no mountain,
Then there is.

User avatar
Iana
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:24 pm

Re: I don't know

Postby Iana » Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:33 am

What do you actually know?
Do you actually know anything?
Ha ha i know that i don't know))
A lot of times i say: imagine you don't know any word, labels. what is left? Sounds, sensations, image , taste, smell, thoughts (all these labels too).
These are the things I'm certain of, but is this me that i'm certain of them? If "i" is only a thought, is left the body experiencing all these, but the body, is just a label too...
It's like i'm hitting my head on a wall))))

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Matthew
Posts: 2349
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Location: Your dreams

Re: I don't know

Postby Matthew » Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:23 pm

Of course "body" is a label as well!
What else could it be?
A simple word. Four letters.
Like rain, lamp, IKEA.

The next question is important.
I want you to go blank and look with the eyes of a child:

the body experiencing all these
Is that true?

Does the body experience?
Or is the body experienced?
First there is a mountain,
Then there is no mountain,
Then there is.

User avatar
Iana
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:24 pm

Re: I don't know

Postby Iana » Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:03 pm

the body experiencing all these
Is that true?

Does the body experience?
Or is the body experienced?
With the eyes of of child: it is not the body experiencing all this, the child doesn't know he has a body, eyes, ears, so he doesn't know what's happening, so he is only seeing, hearing, feeling, tasting, smelling, all this happens without him knowing what is this. So the body it is not experiencing but ... i can't get it how the body is experienced ?


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