To experience a shift in perception

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Barb4
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To experience a shift in perception

Postby Barb4 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:19 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
When I meditate I experience the timeless, always present, never changing Self. My problem is I have a tendency to believe there is a separate “me”.

What are you looking for at LU?
I’m looking for guidance to have the experience of no separate self. Because there is this belief, I have been suffering. I just want to shift the perception from believing thoughts and emotions to seeing things as they truly are. No filters. No separate self.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect to be totally honest and to look clearly. I feel I need a guide to help me navigate through this misconception. I’m hoping that this guidance will help me see the truth that life is living through this vehicle without a separate self managing.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have been a student of Advaita for 15 years. I have meditated for over 30 years. I’m a committed seeker and am determined to see through this belief in a separate “me”.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

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Phil
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Re: To experience a shift in perception

Postby Phil » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:36 am

Hello,

My name is Phil and I would love to guide you.

Let me know I you are comfortable working with me and we can get started. If you prefer to work with another guide that is okay too of course.

I await your repsonse and then we can get cracking.

Regards,

Phil
Stop following the crowd. They're lost as fuck.
_______________________________________________
https://www.facebook.com/odonataconsulting/

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Barb4
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Re: To experience a shift in perception

Postby Barb4 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:16 pm

Dear Phil, I need to be totally honest with you.
I’m dealing with anxiety and depression for the
First time in my life. I know that seeing through
The misconception of a separate me will not
Cure me of these states of mind. But, it does
Have a tendency to cloud the mind. I have been
Told that I’m experiencing a Kundalini awakening.
So, given that information I’m wondering if you still
Wish to work with me. Otherwise, I would be
Glad to have you as a guide.

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Barb4
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Re: To experience a shift in perception

Postby Barb4 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:22 pm

Phil, Also, I am not on any medication because I’m
Don’t experience these states daily. Only when I’m unable
To sleep because of the energy. Most days I feel fine.
Just felt I needed to clarify.

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Barb4
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Re: To experience a shift in perception

Postby Barb4 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:23 pm

Phil, Are we moving forward? Is there a reason I haven’t
Heard from you? Would you rather not work with me?
Could you please respond? Thank you

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Barb4
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Re: To experience a shift in perception

Postby Barb4 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:33 pm

Dear Phil, I haven’t heard back from you since last
Friday. I hope you are ok and nothing has happened.
I want to get started. I no longer wish to work with
You and am requesting a new guide. I’m not sure how
This process works.

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Phil
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Re: To experience a shift in perception

Postby Phil » Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:34 am

Hello again and sorry for not answering,

I have learned a lot from you about the system and how to check replies, thank you!

Before we get started I need you to look at this. If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Please learn to use the quote function. When replying to a question, please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. Instructions are located in the link below:

http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

Just let me know that you have read the disclaimer, the FAQ's and then we can get underway.

Looking forward to working with you!

Talk soon,

Phil
Stop following the crowd. They're lost as fuck.
_______________________________________________
https://www.facebook.com/odonataconsulting/

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Barb4
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Re: To experience a shift in perception

Postby Barb4 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:01 pm

[Just let me know that you have read the disclaimer, the FAQ's and then we can get underway.
I have read the disclaimer and the FAQ's. I'm rather busy the next day or so. It may be until Saturday I am able to respond.

Thanks for your help

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Phil
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Re: To experience a shift in perception

Postby Phil » Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:45 am

Hello,


Here are some guidelines for you to bear in mind during our session:


1. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

2. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) / direct experience (DE)- smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

3. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. We have some recommended books listed, but even those can be distracting right now. Do keep reading Gateless Gatecrashers and/or Liberation Unleashed for examples of how this guiding works. All you have to do is LOOK. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Your answers to these questions and the answers given to the first 4 question will give me a good idea of where we are and where to go next.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Phil
Stop following the crowd. They're lost as fuck.
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https://www.facebook.com/odonataconsulting/

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Phil
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Re: To experience a shift in perception

Postby Phil » Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:46 am

Is there I name a can address you with? For me it makes it more personal.

Phil
Stop following the crowd. They're lost as fuck.
_______________________________________________
https://www.facebook.com/odonataconsulting/

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Barb4
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Re: To experience a shift in perception

Postby Barb4 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:08 pm

Hi Phil, you can call me Barbara
How will life change
?
Life will continue to unfold except without a "me" believing she's controlling it.
How will you change?
I will be more relaxed knowing Life has been taking care of life all along.
Seeing the truth of reality that everything unfolds without "me" feels like a relief.
What will be different?
Nothing really changes except there wont be an imaginary "me" running the show. A sense of me but not a separate entity.
What is missing?
Really nothing is missing in reality. Maybe the feeling of being separate will be missing.

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Phil
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Re: To experience a shift in perception

Postby Phil » Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:03 pm

Hello Barbara,


from you answers I can tell that you have a pretty good understanding or where we are heading. Also your expectations are realistic, so they won't sabotage the process.

As said before this exploration is based on actual experience (AE) / direct experience (DE)- smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts and feelings in the present moment. That excludes memories, they are second hand information in the sense that they are only the memory of a direct experience in the past. Same with fantasies about the future.

There is a big difference between knowing (understanding intellectually) that there is nothing to give up and knowing based on seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:
If I ask you what colour socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:
• You can have a think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what colour you think they are.
• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what colour they actually are!
Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of our dialogue together, it is going to be very important that you are clear about this difference. Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that. We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment to moment experience. We are only interested in your direct experience in the moment.

If this difference is clear to you without a shadow of a doubt, I want you to do the following exercises.

Sit quietly and relax, take your time just looking at what is in front of you for awhile. Observe how the mind is dividing and labelling every thing into objects and is embellishing them with stories about what they are.

Sitting in a room, curtains closed, you wonder what the weather is like outside. You can think about it, look it up on the internet, watch the forecast on TV, call your mother and ask her - or you can simply open the curtains and have a look.

Give it some time. Then, stop watching the objects as labelled objects. Just look at the seeing itself. Observe the pure process of seeing. This is direct experience (DE). Let me know how this goes.

If this exercise feels good, you can tackle the next one. This is an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.
So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual/direct experience) and report back how you go.

Phil
Stop following the crowd. They're lost as fuck.
_______________________________________________
https://www.facebook.com/odonataconsulting/

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Barb4
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Re: To experience a shift in perception

Postby Barb4 » Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:32 pm

Thank you, I’ll get back to you with my report.

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Barb4
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Re: To experience a shift in perception

Postby Barb4 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:58 pm

Give it some time. Then, stop watching the objects as labelled objects. Just look at the seeing itself. Observe the pure process of seeing. This is direct experience (DE). Let me know how this goes.
Ok now this was a little difficult, but eventually I was able to relax the mind enough to realize there is only seeing going on and there is no me seeing, except when a thought enters and owns the seeing. It's not a natural way of seeing, yet.
Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual/direct experience) and report back how you go.
This also took some effort to remember to do it, but eventually I am able to see that all that is going on is feeling finger tips typing on a typewriter, a screen, birds sounds outside, thoughts moving through

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Phil
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Re: To experience a shift in perception

Postby Phil » Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:24 pm

eventually I was able to relax the mind enough to realize there is only seeing going on and there is no me seeing, except when a thought enters and owns the seeing.
Very well said, that's exactly what's going on! Right now, on 'my' side, reading is going on, but there is nobody reading. Also writing is taking place, yet there is nobody writing. Everything is just happening by itself.

There is just a river of unfolding moments to be witnessed by no-one. Can you find 'you' without refering to a thought, a feeling, or a senstation?

Hear the sound of the traffic. Can you hear the self in the same way? Feel your feet touching the ground. Can you feel the self in the same way? Notice that internal picture. Is it "you" or just a picture?

Look at a table, look at the components, imagine the table taken apart, where is the table? Is there really such a thing? Could this be the same for a me? If arms and legs are gone is there less of you?

As you move around in your normal activities, check and see if you can find a self moving the body around. Walking, driving, typing, dressing yourself, etc. Is there a WHO living your life? Or are there just thoughts about everything, including a self, seeming to live your life? Big difference. Just look at the evidence. In your daily life, in all your actions, keep returning to this focus on the thoughts as you move around. Keep checking if there is something real, besides a thought, that owns and directs the body. Keep looking for the doer.
except when a thought enters and owns the seeing. It's not a natural way of seeing, yet.
Yes, the ego will jump in and claim the experiences by labelling them, just like it has always done. That's perfectly normal. It is fighting for survival after losing a very important first battle. Once thinking comes into play, distortion is inevitable. This is why direct experience is so important, the ego can't label that. And you are not going to think your way out of this, just keep looking until you know, without a doubt, that there is no "I".

Once clearly seen, it can not be unseen. Just as once you see that Santa isn’t real, you can never un-see that!
You don’t have to look at the empty fireplace where Santa should be, until something magic happens and the belief magically dissolves. Someone just suggests it to you, or says it to you—there is no Father Christmas.
Then you look around. And you think. You think for yourself. And very quickly it becomes obvious that—oh my God—everything fits. All the contradictions about Santa, questions about Santa. Issues about Santa. They are what fall away.
This is exactly the same as seeing that there is no self. Because it’s just one more fiction. In and of itself, the fiction of ‘you’ is just one more fiction. Yes, it’s fundamental to a lot of destructive patterns, behaviour, and human dysfunction. One might argue that it’s fundamental to all human dysfunction. But in and of itself? It’s just one more fiction. And you just see through it like you’d see through any fiction.

Keep looking and keep noticing the labelling.

Phil
Stop following the crowd. They're lost as fuck.
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https://www.facebook.com/odonataconsulting/


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