Honesty

Welcome to the main forum. When you are ready to start a conversation, register and once your application is processed a guide will come to talk to you.
This is one-on-one style forum, one thread per green member.
User avatar
1Unknown9
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:48 pm

Honesty

Postby 1Unknown9 » Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:50 pm

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
By no “inherent self” I understand that I do not exist other than as an idea. There is no me that can be found that is not an idea or a concept and ideas and concepts do not have substance. The problem is that this is an intellectual understanding and in my everyday experience my attention is drawn to thoughts about thoughts (myself).

What are you looking for at LU?
I would like to end self-obsession by seeing through the idea of myself. If my idea of myself is really only an idea, I would like to see that, experience it, and know if in a way that it ends my ability to believe in it and give my attention to it in the same ways as before.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect that my guide will be able to recognize where I might need help in seeing assumptions about my way of thinking, especially my ideas about myself, and be able to point them out through questions and suggestions for directly looking at my actual experience. I would like to request Kay as my guide.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have practiced self-inquiry in online and in-person. It involves questioning beliefs, especially beliefs about what I am. It involves looking st how my sense of self was formed, looking at whether I make decisions, and the source of fears and desires.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

User avatar
forgetmenot
Posts: 5469
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:07 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Honesty

Postby forgetmenot » Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:20 am

Hi Unknown,

This is Kay and I am happy to assist you in exploring the idea of the separate self. At LU we are described as guides - not teachers - as our role is to directly point to what IS, through the use of exercises and questions. Your role is to LOOK carefully to what is being pointed at. It is this simple LOOKING (not thinking) that brings the realisation that there is no separate self and never has been. This is an experiential based guiding and is not a discussion or a debate.

Here are links to information I would like you to read before we begin.

Disclaimer:-

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Terms & Conditions:-

https://www.liberationunleashed.com/register/terms/


“Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041


Please learn to use the quote function. When replying to a question, please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. Instructions are located in the link below:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

Please confirm that you have read the disclaimer and the other links and we can then begin the exploration.

Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

User avatar
1Unknown9
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:48 pm

Re: Honesty

Postby 1Unknown9 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:19 am

Please confirm that you have read the disclaimer and the other links and we can then begin the exploration.
Hi Kay, I am confirming that I have read the disclaimer and the other links. I am ready to begin.

User avatar
forgetmenot
Posts: 5469
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:07 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Honesty

Postby forgetmenot » Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:25 am

Hi Unknown,

Thank you for reading the links, including the disclaimer and on learning how to use the quote function.

How would you like to be called?

Some housekeeping guidelines:-
1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. Please answer what's true for you once you have looked to see what is being pointed at, rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer. Ideal answers may sound good but will be of no benefit to you in having you realise that there is no separate self. There is no one judging answers given, so please be100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, colour and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration. Be here with an open and curious mind.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done in Word - it will save you time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration ie what life will look like; what life will feel like and what you want/hope will change or not change etc. Could you please answer the 4 following questions in your own words:-

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?


Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

User avatar
1Unknown9
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:48 pm

Re: Honesty

Postby 1Unknown9 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:06 am

Hi Kay,

You can call me Brett.
How will life change?
I am hoping that I can share whatever I find with others. I am hoping that I can see how precious every moment is and appreciate the beauty of life by actually noticing and accepting (not trying to change anything) instead of being glued to the screen in my head all the time (watching thought). Life itself probably won’t be any different in the sense that life events of loss/gain, birth/death will continue. Externally, nothing is likely to change. Internally, I want to be grounded in a presence of what is real.
How will you change?
I will lose the motivation to try and control anyone’s thoughts and ideas about “Brett,” including my own thoughts and ideas (about myself, but about “other things” too). Without this motivation, my actions might possibly be different in some respects. And if not, I will be able to accept my thoughts and actions without judgment and without a sense that I should “be different” than how I am. I will not be able to believe any thoughts that come in the form of internal criticisms of my feelings, actions, and thoughts. I hope that I would also be less affected by insults and praise, because I will not believe the stories in my head that come up as a result of insults and praise.
What will be different?
There will be an unshakeable understanding that thoughts and feelings are not reality. So for instance if I have a thought about myself coupled with a feeling as a reaction to that thought, there will be no tendency to believe that these thoughts and feelings are expressing any truth (besides the truth that they are happening).
What is missing?
I do not understand thinking well enough to know how to avoid “watching the movie” of thoughts and I don’t know where I can put my attention besides thinking and stories.

User avatar
forgetmenot
Posts: 5469
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:07 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Honesty

Postby forgetmenot » Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:06 am

Hey Brett,

The purpose of the questions were for you and I to become aware of any expectations you may have of what having the realisation may look like or feel like. Expectations have a habit of getting in the way of the exploration and can even blind side the fact that the realisation has happened. There is nothing to be done with expectations other than to be aware of them and any others that appear as we move through this exploration. When desired outcomes to expectations are not met, fear, anger, resistance, resentment, disappointment, denial and frustration can arise. Also note that these emotions will arise during our exploration as well. When they do, please let me know so that we can look at them together.
How will life change?
I am hoping that I can share whatever I find with others. I am hoping that I can see how precious every moment is and appreciate the beauty of life by actually noticing and accepting (not trying to change anything) instead of being glued to the screen in my head all the time (watching thought). Life itself probably won’t be any different in the sense that life events of loss/gain, birth/death will continue. Externally, nothing is likely to change. Internally, I want to be grounded in a presence of what is real.
Thoughts are ‘part of life’ and are simply appearances that seemingly arise and subside and in and of themselves are meaningless. There is no hierarchy of thoughts. In other words, one thought is not more important than another and thoughts are not aware.
How will you change?
I will lose the motivation to try and control anyone’s thoughts and ideas about “Brett,” including my own thoughts and ideas (about myself, but about “other things” too). Without this motivation, my actions might possibly be different in some respects. And if not, I will be able to accept my thoughts and actions without judgment and without a sense that I should “be different” than how I am. I will not be able to believe any thoughts that come in the form of internal criticisms of my feelings, actions, and thoughts. I hope that I would also be less affected by insults and praise, because I will not believe the stories in my head that come up as a result of insults and praise.
There is no “I” that is thinking thoughts. Thoughts simply arise and subside. “I” is not a place where thoughts arise. “I” is a thought that arises and subsides.

There is no “Brett” who is trying to control anything, let alone anyone’s thoughts and ideas about a “Brett”. An illusion cannot control anything and an illusion cannot think or believe anything either!
What will be different?
There will be an unshakeable understanding that thoughts and feelings are not reality. So for instance if I have a thought about myself coupled with a feeling as a reaction to that thought, there will be no tendency to believe that these thoughts and feelings are expressing any truth (besides the truth that they are happening).
Thoughts and emotions will still appear. They have always appeared and yet there has never been a Brettself...ever! It takes time for the understanding of what these actually are to sink in, so to speak…so the unshakeable understanding won’t happen during this exploration.

Realising 'no self' happens, but there will also be periods of checking, and doubting, and rechecking, and that is all normal. This exploration is just a beginning and not an ending. There will still be beliefs and patterns that are rooted in the idea of being a separate self that will need clearing as not everything gets rewritten in one big hit...so yo-yoing happens. There is clear seeing that there is no self and in the next moment this clarity is muddied...all normal experiences. The core belief of being a separate self is seen through though; and like a rug that is beginning to unravel, there are still many knots that need undoing. But if you know that the ‘conditioning’ is not something that you own, then it is easier to clear. Continuing to LOOK after the realisation is very much the key.
What is missing?
I do not understand thinking well enough to know how to avoid “watching the movie” of thoughts and I don’t know where I can put my attention besides thinking and stories.
There is no ‘you’ who can choose where attention goes or what the focus is. Being able to observe thoughts is a good start to becoming aware of the nature of thought. Thoughts are not what thought says they are. We will be looking at thoughts later on…but there is no ‘you’ who is thinking thoughts or controlling what thought will appear when.

As stated in my first post, my role is to directly point to what IS, through the use of exercises and questions. Your role is to LOOK carefully to what is being pointed at. It is this simple LOOKING (not thinking) that brings the realisation that there is no separate self and never has been.

So now we become aware of actual experience (AE) and what LOOKING is.
‘Looking’ is just plain looking at actual/direct experience (AE), which is simply colour, sound, smell, sensation, taste and the simple knowing of thought at face value that is appearing right now in the moment.

You are looking at the raw experience of colour, sound, smell, sensation and taste and noticing the labels and thoughts ABOUT the raw experience.
The key to this exploration is the careful LOOKING. Why? Because it’s the act of actually LOOKING and not finding an “I” that brings about the realisation of there being no separate self and that there has never been a separate self.

So first we become aware of what AE is and how it is used to ‘look’.

I would like you to sit quietly and close your eyes and just listen to the sounds for a few minutes that can be heard both inside and outside of the room. Really hear them.

Tell me ONE sound that you heard when doing this? (Make sure it is a sound that you will be able to hear again for part 2 of this exercise).

Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

User avatar
1Unknown9
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:48 pm

Re: Honesty

Postby 1Unknown9 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:40 am

Tell me ONE sound that you heard when doing this?
The sound of water dripping in the shower.

User avatar
forgetmenot
Posts: 5469
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:07 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Honesty

Postby forgetmenot » Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:05 am

Hi Brett,
Tell me ONE sound that you heard when doing this?
The sound of water dripping in the shower.
Great! Now redo Part I of the exercise, and then look carefully at what I am pointing to with the following questions. Please answer from looking at actual experience only (ie colour, sound, thought, smell, taste or sensation), and not with an intellectual answer.

Please repeat the exercise and tell me:-
Without thought or memory, how is it known that the sound heard is "water dripping in the shower"?
In other words, what is it that suggests the sound is "water dripping in the shower"?
Does the sound itself suggest in anyway that it is "water dripping in the shower" or is it thought that suggests it?

What is the actual experience (AE) of hearing ‘water dripping’? Is it colour, sensation, sound, smell, taste or thought?


Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

User avatar
1Unknown9
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:48 pm

Re: Honesty

Postby 1Unknown9 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:42 am

Without thought or memory, how is it known that the sound heard is "water dripping in the shower"?
--It can’t be known without thought.
In other words, what is it that suggests the sound is "water dripping in the shower"?
--Thought.
Does the sound itself suggest in anyway that it is "water dripping in the shower" or is it thought that suggests it?
--Just thought.
What is the actual experience (AE) of hearing ‘water dripping’? Is it colour, sensation, sound, smell, taste or thought?
--hearing. although “hearing” is also an idea. Hearing is a label that thought puts on sensations that it assumes are being registered via the ears. In actual experience, hearing is just being aware of something that is not necessarily accompanied by sight, smell, touch, or taste. There is no actual experience of sound waves that confirms that “hearing” (via the ears) is what’s actually going on. It might be more accurate to say “awareness minus sight, smell, touch, taste = hearing.” With that definition, I can more confidently say that “hearing” is my actual experience of water dripping.
Thought seems to be its own separate category, since thoughts are sometimes visual like sight and sometimes words like hearing, and can provoke memories of smell, taste, and touch also.

User avatar
1Unknown9
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:48 pm

Re: Honesty

Postby 1Unknown9 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:45 am

my last post should have said "sound" instead of hearing. Here it is:
What is the actual experience (AE) of hearing ‘water dripping’? Is it colour, sensation, sound, smell, taste or thought?
--sound. although “sound” is also an idea. Sound is a label that thought puts on sensations that it assumes are being registered via the ears. In actual experience, sound is just being aware of something that is not necessarily accompanied by sight, smell, touch, or taste. There is no actual experience of vibrations that confirms that “sound” (via the ears) is what’s actually going on. It might be more accurate to say “awareness minus sight, smell, touch, taste = sound.” With that definition, I can more confidently say that “sound” is my actual experience of water dripping.
Thought seems to be its own separate category, since thoughts are sometimes visual like sight and sometimes words like sound, and can provoke memories of smell, taste, and touch also.

User avatar
forgetmenot
Posts: 5469
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:07 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Honesty

Postby forgetmenot » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:25 am

Hey Brett,

Lovely looking :)
Without thought or memory, how is it known that the sound heard is "water dripping in the shower"?
--It can’t be known without thought.
Exactly!
In other words, what is it that suggests the sound is "water dripping in the shower"?
--Thought.
Yep, without thought, it is simply AE of sound. It is thought that overlays raw experience ‘sound’ with labels and stories ABOUT the sound.
Does the sound itself suggest in anyway that it is "water dripping in the shower" or is it thought that suggests it?
--Just thought.
Yup! :)
What is the actual experience (AE) of hearing ‘water dripping’? Is it colour, sensation, sound, smell, taste or thought?
--sound. although “sound” is also an idea. Sound is a label that thought puts on sensations that it assumes are being registered via the ears.
Sound is not an idea. Sound is actual experience. It is the label that is the idea. Without the label ‘sound’, what is appearing is experience/THIS exactly as it is. It is thought that divides THIS/experience and then labels the divisions as sound and thought and colour and smell and taste and sensation.
In actual experience, sound is just being aware of something that is not necessarily accompanied by sight, smell, touch, or taste. There is no actual experience of vibrations that confirms that “sound” (via the ears) is what’s actually going on. It might be more accurate to say “awareness minus sight, smell, touch, taste = sound.” With that definition, I can more confidently say that “sound” is my actual experience of water dripping.
You can’t minus colour, smell, sensation, taste or thought. They are also THIS/experience. It is only thought that divides THIS/experience into these divisions and then labels them as thought and colour and sound etc. There is no separation. Coloursoundsmellthoughtsensationtaste = experience/THIS. They are synonymous.

And yes…all that is in that moment is AE of sound which thought overlays with the story of the sound being a dripping tap.
Thought seems to be its own separate category, since thoughts are sometimes visual like sight and sometimes words like sound, and can provoke memories of smell, taste, and touch also.
Thoughts are not heard. There would have to be someone who is listening to thoughts for them to be heard. There are thoughts about thoughts being sound…but are thoughts really heard? Can a mini Brettself be found somewhere that is speaking thoughts for another Brettself to hear?

Nothing can provoke memories of anything else. That is the belief in time and the belief in separation. That there is something that can affect something else. This will all become clearer further down the track.

Okay...looking further at actual experience.

The interpretation of actual experience happens quickly. So while inquiring, labelling and interpretation will always appear, but it is possible to become aware of the thoughts that appear with,and overlay actual experience. Another key component of this exploration is being able to tell the difference between actual experience and the interpretation by thought of actual experience

The following exercise points to what I mean.

For this exercise you will need an apple or any other piece of fruit will do.

Image

Have a look at an apple. When ‘looking at an apple’, there's colour; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."
What is known for sure? Colour is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?
Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought. Actual experience is sound, thought, colour, smell, taste, sensation.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?


While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by ‘looking in actual experience ‘. What you know for sure, and, is always here.

The label ‘apple’ is known
Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known
Colour labelled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known
However, is an apple actually known?

Love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

User avatar
1Unknown9
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:48 pm

Re: Honesty

Postby 1Unknown9 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:03 am

Thoughts are not heard. There would have to be someone who is listening to thoughts for them to be heard. There are thoughts about thoughts being sound…but are thoughts really heard?
You wrote that “thoughts are not heard” because “there would have to be someone who is listening to thoughts for them to be heard.” But you also wrote, “Sound is not an idea. Sound is actual experience.” But who or what is experiencing sound?
Can a mini Brettself be found somewhere that is speaking thoughts for another Brettself to hear?
No, there is no Brettself found anywhere that could be listening. But something is listening. Otherwise, what knows that a sound has been heard? There seems to be something experiencing sounds, sights, etc.

There is awareness of thoughts. So it seems that there are 1) thoughts, and 2) awareness of thoughts. if there were only thoughts, and no awareness, thoughts would not be known. I assume that the awareness is separate because thoughts do not seem self-aware. Unless the awareness is an illusion, and even awareness of thought is a thought. However, this does not seem likely because there is awareness of sound without thought. so maybe there is awareness of thought that is separate from thought.
Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
An “apple” is the label English-speakers use when a certain group of characteristics (touch, taste, smell, etc.) are found in the same space at the same time. I think Brettself is somewhat similar in that way; it is shorthand for a certain collection of sights, sounds, smells. However, there is an awareness of thoughts that seems only to occur in this Brettself. There is no awareness of thoughts in an apple or anywhere else.
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?
No. There are certain sense experiences that when grouped together are labeled as apple. but at its core (lol) there is no “appleness.” we just use the sound “apple” to describe the experience of a certain combination of sense experiences (sight, sound, touch, smell, taste).

However, is an apple actually known?
No. There would have to be an “apple essence” and “non-apple essence” for an apple to be known. What is known are experiences that sometimes accompany each other, and we call them “apples.”

User avatar
1Unknown9
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:48 pm

Re: Honesty

Postby 1Unknown9 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:06 am

For Brett, there is the experience of thought coupled with the experience of the senses. neither of those exist for anyone else. Therefore, the unique and exclusive awareness of those thoughts and sense experiences = Brett.

User avatar
forgetmenot
Posts: 5469
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:07 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Honesty

Postby forgetmenot » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:17 am

Hello Brett,
Thoughts are not heard. There would have to be someone who is listening to thoughts for them to be heard. There are thoughts about thoughts being sound…but are thoughts really heard?
You wrote that “thoughts are not heard” because “there would have to be someone who is listening to thoughts for them to be heard.” But you also wrote, “Sound is not an idea. Sound is actual experience.” But who or what is experiencing sound?
The idea of there being a ‘me’ here inside and a world outside of ‘me’ infers that that there is a ‘me’ separate to everything else, and that there is a ‘me’ that life is happening to. Let’s look at this with just using sound.

Where are sounds appearing?

For this experiment you will need a set of headphones and some music.

Take in a couple of deep breaths to settle the dust and then close your eyes and listen to a piece of music.

Listen to a couple of minutes of music.
When you are listening to music with headphones on, isn’t it obvious that the music appears in the same place, as do thoughts and sensations? They seem to appear in side ‘me’.

Then with eyes still closed, take off the headphones and listen to whatever other sounds are present (ie birds singing, clock ticking, car passing by etc) and it seems that the sounds are appearing outside of ‘me’.

Put your headphones back on again and all that is present in hearing the sound is sound itself.

Take the headphones off. Is not the experience the same…that in hearing the sound is sound itself?

Keep doing this until it becomes clear that not only do thoughts and feelings appear in the same place, but that sound do also.

Is there an inside ‘me’ and an outside of ‘me’?
Can a mini Brettself be found somewhere that is speaking thoughts for another Brettself to hear?
No, there is no Brettself found anywhere that could be listening. But something is listening. Otherwise, what knows that a sound has been heard? There seems to be something experiencing sounds, sights, etc.
Where does what is known, ie sound end and the knowing (labelled as “hearing”) of it begin? Where is the dividing line between the known and the knowing or are they one and the same thing?

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
An “apple” is the label English-speakers use when a certain group of characteristics (touch, taste, smell, etc.) are found in the same space at the same time. I think Brettself is somewhat similar in that way; it is shorthand for a certain collection of sights, sounds, smells. However, there is an awareness of thoughts that seems only to occur in this Brettself. There is no awareness of thoughts in an apple or anywhere else.
Please answer the question.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?
No. There are certain sense experiences that when grouped together are labeled as apple. but at its core (lol) there is no “appleness.” we just use the sound “apple” to describe the experience of a certain combination of sense experiences (sight, sound, touch, smell, taste).
An actual apple is not known. There are only thoughts about an apple and thoughts about a combination of actual experience being called an ‘apple’.

However, without thought, how is this known…that a combination of AE makes an apple?

However, is an apple actually known?
No. There would have to be an “apple essence” and “non-apple essence” for an apple to be known. What is known are experiences that sometimes accompany each other, and we call them “apples.”
There is no one experiencing anything…and certainly not experiencing something called an apple. You can’t have it both ways. You either want to see the truth or you want to hold onto what you think you know and believe. You wrote that your willingness to question your beliefs were a 10, from a scale of 1 to 10 on your registration form. Is this actually true?

Is an apple actually known?
If it is..by what exactly? (And please don't say by the Brettself or some deity etc)

For Brett, there is the experience of thought coupled with the experience of the senses. neither of those exist for anyone else. Therefore, the unique and exclusive awareness of those thoughts and sense experiences = Brett.
Yep, okay, if you are so sure and adamant about that, then what are you doing at LU?

Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

User avatar
1Unknown9
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:48 pm

Re: Honesty

Postby 1Unknown9 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:33 am

Is there an inside ‘me’ and an outside of ‘me’?
Not in my direct experience. I can't find a me, so I can't find an inside or outside either. There is sometimes a thought of "me."
Where does what is known, ie sound end and the knowing (labelled as “hearing”) of it begin? Where is the dividing line between the known and the knowing or are they one and the same thing? Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
The knowing and the hearing are the same thing. There is no distinction. There is only color and a thought about an apple.
However, without thought, how is this known…that a combination of AE makes an apple?
However, is an apple actually known?
Without thought it cannot be known that a combination of AE makes an apple. An apple is not known, but colour is known and thought is known.
There is no one experiencing anything…and certainly not experiencing something called an apple. You can’t have it both ways. You either want to see the truth or you want to hold onto what you think you know and believe. You wrote that your willingness to question your beliefs were a 10, from a scale of 1 to 10 on your registration form. Is this actually true?
My willingness to question my beliefs is a ten because I am willing to question all beliefs and because I am willing to question any belief. Also, my willingness to share my beliefs so that they can be questioned is a ten.
Is an apple actually known?
What is known is color, taste, etc. Thoughts are also known. The word "apple" is shorthand for a collection of experiences that include colors, tastes, etc. An apple doesn't exist, but the word describes the experiences.
If it is..by what exactly? (And please don't say by the Brettself or some deity etc)
An apple is known by the senses. Taste “tastes” an apple, smell “smells” an apple, etc.
-For Brett, there is the experience of thought coupled with the experience of the senses. neither of those exist for anyone else. Therefore, the unique and exclusive awareness of those thoughts and sense experiences = Brett.
-Yep, okay, if you are so sure and adamant about that, then what are you doing at LU?
I am not sure and adamant. I have doubts that this is the way things actually are. That is why I am at LU. My approach is to share my beliefs so that they can be questioned.


Return to “THE GATE”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests