Fifty and counting.

Welcome to the main forum. When you are ready to start a conversation, register and once your application is processed a guide will come to talk to you.
This is one-on-one style forum, one thread per green member.
User avatar
forgetmenot
Posts: 5656
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:07 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Fifty and counting.

Postby forgetmenot » Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:53 pm

Hi Shaw,

Wonderful, and please share the obstacles you were referring to in your next post as well.

Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

User avatar
Shaw
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:11 am

Re: Fifty and counting.

Postby Shaw » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:56 pm

By doing this, it takes your focus off thoughts and onto actual experience...with the noticing of thought.
Let me know how you go
Hi Kay. I did the exercises diligently for the first week. I since was reluctant to reply as I don't really have much to say. Or maybe I just don't have the language or means to articulate it.

I found it very relaxing , I must say. Everything else , thoughts ,feelings etc did definitely fade away. I was left with the feeling of being the observer without having to label what something was, particularly the colour of something. This was actually similar to the listening part, I felt the separation, the questioning of what object was emitting the sound then all the labels I was attaching. This seemed to give way to just the sound and the hearing of it then almost just the energy of the sound and the energy that was aware and then the melding of those two. That is the best I can do, I am afraid, Kay.
please share the obstacles you were referring to in your next post as well.
There are almost too many to list here , Kay. Many of them are really just psychological issues and I am now aware that they pale into insignificance compared to the work or search that I must undertake. That's quite a trite statement , but I don't want to burden you with "first world issues" although I am aware of the need to "get one's house in order". I suspect that muy issue is shared by all to some extent or other, though I suspect I would be in a small percentile of an almost pathological addiction to the activity of mind. I can now sit still for up to 50 mins, but 80% of that is still "chatter". The only positivve thing is that I get better insights whilst sitting and it is not all negative, but I feel that the mind is very much in control, although I am aware that that in itself is just a thought. Even doing the exercise prescribed my mind was shouting about Goethe's colours experiment and how much I was going to hate it. I am going to stop, abruptly , but I won't shut up if I don't.
Sent with Love, Kay. Hope you're well.

User avatar
forgetmenot
Posts: 5656
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:07 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Fifty and counting.

Postby forgetmenot » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:37 pm

Hello Shaw,

I had actually closed your file on my computer since I had not heard from you. If you don’t keep in contact with me…even to say that you are taking more time, then I am going to assume that you are no longer continuing. So please, in future, keep me in the loop of what you are doing.

Would you revisit the link that shows you how to use the quote function please. The mind that is called ‘my mind’, is a little OCD and prefers order that comes with the correct use of the quote function. :)

https://www.liberationunleashed.com/na ... f=4&t=660
By doing this, it takes your focus off thoughts and onto actual experience...with the noticing of thought.
Let me know how you go
Hi Kay. I did the exercises diligently for the first week. I since was reluctant to reply as I don't really have much to say. Or maybe I just don't have the language or means to articulate it.
The exercise was just about being mindful, in other words becoming aware of what is in your direct experience, and defining those ‘things’ for what they actually are ( ie sound, colour, smell, taste, sensation). For example, the scrunching of toes…just being aware of the sensation, more so than the thoughts about what the sensation is. By so doing it helps in slowing down a busy mind…so that you can then become aware of actual experience and become aware of thoughts about AE.

So was this goal achieved?
I found it very relaxing , I must say.
Great, because it is important that you become aware of AE and the thoughts about AE for us to proceed with this exploration. So being relaxed and becoming aware of what is in your direct (actual) experience is what the exercise was for.
Everything else , thoughts ,feelings etc did definitely fade away. I was left with the feeling of being the observer without having to label what something was, particularly the colour of something. This was actually similar to the listening part, I felt the separation, the questioning of what object was emitting the sound then all the labels I was attaching. This seemed to give way to just the sound and the hearing of it then almost just the energy of the sound and the energy that was aware and then the melding of those two. That is the best I can do, I am afraid, Kay.
The exercise was not about getting rid of anything or changing anything…it was to enhance actual experience…so that you became aware of it.
please share the obstacles you were referring to in your next post as well.
There are almost too many to list here , Kay. Many of them are really just psychological issues and I am now aware that they pale into insignificance compared to the work or search that I must undertake. That's quite a trite statement , but I don't want to burden you with "first world issues" although I am aware of the need to "get one's house in order". I suspect that muy issue is shared by all to some extent or other, though I suspect I would be in a small percentile of an almost pathological addiction to the activity of mind. I can now sit still for up to 50 mins, but 80% of that is still "chatter". The only positivve thing is that I get better insights whilst sitting and it is not all negative, but I feel that the mind is very much in control, although I am aware that that in itself is just a thought. Even doing the exercise prescribed my mind was shouting about Goethe's colours experiment and how much I was going to hate it. I am going to stop, abruptly , but I won't shut up if I don't.
Hence me giving you the mindfulness exercise…so you can learn to quieten the mind by becoming aware of (ie focus on) what IS, other than thought…ie sound, colour, smell, taste and sensation. This exploration is not about getting rid of anything or shutting anything down or quietening anything…it is about becoming aware of what reality actually is, as opposed to what thought says reality is. And reality is the simply knowing of sound, taste, smell, sensation, colour and the face value of thought.

And what does the “face value of thought” mean?
A thought, in and of itself is like a container.
The content of a thought is what a thought is ABOUT
When a thought is seen only as a container, and the content of a thought (what it’s about) is being ignored - this is what is called actual experience of a thought ie face value of a thought.
So, we can say, that in actual experience, the arising of a thought (the container) is real, but what it’s ABOUT, the content, is not. The thought (as container) is there in reality, but the content of a thought is fiction. Do you see the difference?

Love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

User avatar
Shaw
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:11 am

Re: Fifty and counting.

Postby Shaw » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:43 pm

So, we can say, that in actual experience, the arising of a thought (the container) is real, but what it’s ABOUT, the content, is not. The thought (as container) is there in reality, but the content of a thought is fiction. Do you see the difference?
I think so, Kay. I am just trying to understand why a container, which after all exists to contain something, is ok, but what it contains ,if we allow it to manifest, is not. It's almost as if the exercise is to resist searching for or to deny the realisation of what is within the container. Just give me another day to find time to sit with this, Kay, if you don't mind?

User avatar
forgetmenot
Posts: 5656
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:07 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Fifty and counting.

Postby forgetmenot » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:34 pm

Hey Shaw,
So, we can say, that in actual experience, the arising of a thought (the container) is real, but what it’s ABOUT, the content, is not. The thought (as container) is there in reality, but the content of a thought is fiction. Do you see the difference?
I think so, Kay. I am just trying to understand why a container, which after all exists to contain something, is ok, but what it contains ,if we allow it to manifest, is not. It's almost as if the exercise is to resist searching for or to deny the realisation of what is within the container. Just give me another day to find time to sit with this, Kay, if you don't mind?
Why is the container analogy used? The container (imagine a thought bubble) only 'contains' more thought. Thought, in and of itself DOES NOT contain any experience. If it did, then you would be able to taste the thought 'sweet'! If thought, in and of itself contained any actual experience, then the thought 'pink', would appear pink. If thought, in and of itself contained any experience, then the thought 'water' would make you wet. The thought fish would actually contain a fish. Thought is actual experience, but it doesn't contain anything but thoughts about thought.

The thought “I still believe that I am a me” arises. So the thought is actual experience of thought only. The other thoughts that arise with that thought, about that thought, are the content of that thought. In other words, “I still believe that I am a “me” is the thought. The ensuing thoughts of what that means is the content of that thought and are only thoughts about thought.
Can you see this?


Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

User avatar
Shaw
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:11 am

Re: Fifty and counting.

Postby Shaw » Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:32 pm

The thought “I still believe that I am a me” arises. So the thought is actual experience of thought only. The other thoughts that arise with that thought, about that thought, are the content of that thought. In other words, “I still believe that I am a “me” is the thought. The ensuing thoughts of what that means is the content of that thought and are only thoughts about thought.
Can you see this?
Hi Kay, superficially I think I can see this. Are the
ensuing thoughts
the narrative that we have built up for ourself? If so, I see that.
What I may find more difficult is that my mind never really expects to actually experience certain things, such as being wet or pinkness. Is it ok to qualify things or is the act of qualifying something a thought. I see the colour pink but in order to know it is pink I must distinguish it from red or say serese. My difficulty arises, for example in a scenario whereby a man may call "me" a C@:t in front of my children. So, I have been trying to rid myself of the concept of "me" but I went from a 4 to a 9.5 on an anger scale in a heartbeat. I kind of get that this is a primal reflex to protect my kids etc, but the reflex is mental, right?
Also, that thought or feeling of "me" is possibly being incorrectly reinforced as a good thing as just over a year ago I didn't even have a robust sense of a "me", even if now I am somewhat ironically trying to lose it as fast as I possibly can. Or is that sense of a being, without frills or negative connotations, ok to have or is that sense a thought?
I do apologise , Kay. Thank you for your patience.

With loving wishes,
Shaw.

User avatar
forgetmenot
Posts: 5656
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:07 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Fifty and counting.

Postby forgetmenot » Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:48 pm

Hello Shaw,
The thought “I still believe that I am a me” arises. So the thought is actual experience of thought only. The other thoughts that arise with that thought, about that thought, are the content of that thought. In other words, “I still believe that I am a “me” is the thought. The ensuing thoughts of what that means is the content of that thought and are only thoughts about thought.
Can you see this?
Hi Kay, superficially I think I can see this. Are the ensuing thoughts the narrative that we have built up for ourself? If so, I see that.
The content of thought is all about what the thought means. It is all the meaning given to a thought. “I am not good enough" is the thought. The ensuing thoughts of what that means is the content. You can liken it to a dictionary. A dictionary gives you a word and then defines what that word means and points to.

For example the label/word “belief”
The ensuing thoughts about that word/label is

1. an acceptance that something exists or is true, especially one without proof.
"his belief in extraterrestrial life"

2. trust, faith, or confidence in (someone or something).

These are the content of the thought “belief” and everything else that involves the thought “ belief”.
What I may find more difficult is that my mind never really expects to actually experience certain things, such as being wet or pinkness. Is it ok to qualify things or is the act of qualifying something a thought.
I see the colour pink but in order to know it is pink I must distinguish it from red or say serese.
Exactly! A thought, in and of itself does not contain any experience, therefore it can be seen that thoughts are not experienced as pink, just because the word/thought ‘pink’ appears. If thought actually contained experience, then you would become wet when the thought ‘water’ appeared. So the act of qualifying any thing are thoughts.
My difficulty arises, for example in a scenario whereby a man may call "me" a C@:t in front of my children. So, I have been trying to rid myself of the concept of "me" but I went from a 4 to a 9.5 on an anger scale in a heartbeat. I kind of get that this is a primal reflex to protect my kids etc, but the reflex is mental, right?
This exploration is not about getting rid of anything! How can you get rid of a concept that comes and goes? Does a desert get rid of a mirage that arises within it, or the mirage simply comes and goes?
Nor is this exploration about getting rid of anger. It is about seeing what anger actually IS, as opposed to the thought about what anger is.
Also, that thought or feeling of "me" is possibly being incorrectly reinforced as a good thing as just over a year ago I didn't even have a robust sense of a "me", even if now I am somewhat ironically trying to lose it as fast as I possibly can. Or is that sense of a being, without frills or negative connotations, ok to have or is that sense a thought?
Shaw…this exploration isn’t about answering your questions. If having your questions answered is what brought clarity then you would already have it. It is about you LOOKING to see if you can find this illusory separate self and to see if what thought is pointing to is actual experience of just pure thought fluff.

Did you actually read the link I provided in my introductory post on what
“Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU?

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Now, do you want to actually do this exploration or not?

Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

User avatar
Shaw
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:11 am

Re: Fifty and counting.

Postby Shaw » Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:38 pm

Did you actually read the link I provided in my introductory post on what
“Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU?
I re read them, Kay. Do you understand that I may not understand the apparent contradiction in the two quotes below? On the one hand it is not about getting rid of Self, suggesting there is a self , whilst below the list of what LU is not, it states , what to me is the complete opposite.
This is not about getting rid of self, ego, I.
A period of direct and honest looking at the assumed self will reveal a simple, amazing and directly observable fact – there is no self, there has never been one. Once this is truly seen, not just accepted as a theoretical possibility but actually seen to be the case, the belief in a self (which is all “the self” ever was) gradually (or in some cases, dramatically) falls away. Our natural state remains; pure being, devoid of conceptual confusion, ultimately beyond description.

This awakening from the illusion of self is what we call liberation.
This is why I asked the questions. If there is no self, who gets angry? And if
there has never been one
would it not be the primary objective to rid oneself of the concept of self?
It's ok , Kay I don't want you to answer those , just to maybe explain.
Now, do you want to actually do this exploration or not?

I really do want to do this exploration. Is it possible to assign me another guide? I don't mean any disrespect to you, Kay, and I fear that this request may get me excommunicated. Maybe we are just not suited as I feel that you have mis understood some of where my questioning comes from. I do understand that part of the impatience may be down to the fact that I have been tardy in responding and for that I apologise sincerely. But the questions are sincere and it frustrates me when that seems to be questioned.

Shaw.

User avatar
forgetmenot
Posts: 5656
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:07 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Fifty and counting.

Postby forgetmenot » Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:05 pm

Hello Shaw,

By all means you can ask for another guide. We haven't even started this exploration, as the goal, in the beginning was to quieten your mind since you mentioned how busy it was. No guide is going to answer your questions. LU is not about discussing anything from an intellectual point of view. The whole purpose of LU and guides, is that the guides point via questions or exercises as a means to get you to LOOK, so you find your own answers. You have come to LU for the sole purpose of ridding yourself of emotions, including the separate self in hope of getting rid of emotions etc....and this is NOT what LU is about. Seeing through the separate self does not get rid of any emotions, including anger. What happens is that it is seen that there is actually no one who anger is happening to, hence when anger does appear it passes by more quickly as there is no where for the anger to really roost since the belief in the separate self has been seen through.

How guiding is done is not determined or controlled by you. There is a process which is used to guide with, and this process are steps in helping you to become aware of what actually IS and thoughts about what IS. There is an important difference. Once you begin to see this...then you are on the road to seeing through the separate self. No guide will allow the guided to control or manipulate how the guiding should go.

I will put your thread back 'out there', so to speak and when another guide becomes available and feels they resonate with what you wrote in your introductory post, then, they will pick it up. Just be aware that the forum is very busy...so this may take some time as there are many now, who are at the head of queue.

Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

User avatar
Shaw
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:11 am

Re: Fifty and counting.

Postby Shaw » Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:27 pm

Indeed Kay. Indeed. "Manipulate" ? "Not answer questions".As I mentioned. Nothing personal. But it would seem that the blind was attempting to lead the blind.
Thank you for your time.
Much love.
Shaw.

User avatar
forgetmenot
Posts: 5656
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:07 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Fifty and counting.

Postby forgetmenot » Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:45 pm

Hello Shaw....it must be frustrating for you to think that it was just your luck to get the one blind guide on LU who knows nothing and who hasn't seen through the separate self and has not guided others to seeing the same. I wish you the very best with your journey.

Love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

User avatar
Shaw
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:11 am

Re: Fifty and counting.

Postby Shaw » Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:53 pm

Thank you, Kay. Although by the tone of your posts I think you were more frustrated than I.
No, I don't think I was unlucky. It was a good lesson for me that being able to "see" does not make someone more temperate or rid one of their ego's nastier traits, that much work seems to remain. Wishing you all the best in your own searching.
Much love,
Shaw.

User avatar
forgetmenot
Posts: 5656
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:07 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Fifty and counting.

Postby forgetmenot » Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:10 pm

Hello Shaw,

Your email to Administration was received. I am also a registration admin, so I get all those emails. What I would suggest is that you create yourself a new thread, that way, you will have a whole new thread to start with when another guide becomes available. There is no frustration on my part at all...and as I said...I wish you the best on your journey.

Love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/


Return to “THE GATE”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 3 guests