Feeling life intentfully

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clarinet
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Feeling life intentfully

Postby clarinet » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:36 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That I sense a separate self that isn't real and that I can move beyond this sense of separation.

What are you looking for at LU?
To a sense of oneness with all, to a place of living from there. Someone to guide me to look within at what I need to look at to move into oneness. So my sense of separate self is no longer where I live from.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
To be pointed in the direction along the path of oneness. To be carefully and consistently directed to confront my own stopping mechanisms, my limiting beliefs and where I can open more into my limitlessness within.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Living from a strongly felt perspective. transcendental meditation 35 years ago. Vipassna 20 years ago. Daily meditation for 7 years. A few books and a few workshops ...just more a felt path guided from within.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
8

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Phil
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Re: Feeling life intentfully

Postby Phil » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:38 pm

Hello there,


sorry for the long wait. Too many people knocking at the gate, or not enough guides to pick them up.

Ready to get going?

Phil
Stop following the crowd. They're lost as fuck.
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clarinet
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Re: Feeling life intentfully

Postby clarinet » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:40 am

Hi Phil,

No worries about the long wait, I'm on holiday now - bought my laptop along in case my topic came up.
Ready to get going?
Yes I am - there might be the odd travel day that I can't respond, I'll do my best though.

Thanks,
Clare

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Re: Feeling life intentfully

Postby Phil » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:16 am

Hey Clare!


If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Please learn to use the quote function. When replying to a question, please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. Instructions are located in the link below:

http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

Just let me know that you have read the disclaimer, the FAQ's and then we can get underway.


Talk soon,

Phil
Stop following the crowd. They're lost as fuck.
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clarinet
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Re: Feeling life intentfully

Postby clarinet » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:40 pm

Hey Phil

I just re-read the faqs and the disclaimer so good to proceed : )

Clare

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Re: Feeling life intentfully

Postby Phil » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:25 am

Okay Clare, good!


Here are some guidelines for you to bear in mind during our session:


1. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

2. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) / direct experience (DE)- smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

3. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. We have some recommended books listed, but even those can be distracting right now. Do keep reading Gateless Gatecrashers and/or Liberation Unleashed for examples of how this guiding works. All you have to do is LOOK. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Your answers to these questions and the answers given to the first 4 question will give me a good idea of where we are and where to go next.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Phil
Stop following the crowd. They're lost as fuck.
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clarinet
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Re: Feeling life intentfully

Postby clarinet » Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:02 pm

Hi Phil,
How will life change?
Life won't change at all except I'll categorically know and remember that there is no self and because of that whatever mind antics and thoughts that present themselves - I'll know they're just thoughts rather than from me, rather than something I need to interact with or feel good or bad / right or wrong about.
How will you change?
I won't change at all, to all intents & purposes I will still be the same, look the same sound the same but my inner experience will be present and less distracted by thoughts that form from my mind.
What will be different?
Nothing, except that I will see through the sensed separate self in a way that means instead of knowing at moments that this is true... but that I will know this to be true, always irrevocably.
What is missing?
Nothing is missing, except an awareness that there is no self and that I am not separate. Apparently we are all whole and amazing and always have been and will be. These are things I know to be true but not things I experientially know to be true.

Thanks,
Clare

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Re: Feeling life intentfully

Postby Phil » Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:08 pm

Hello Clare,


sorry for the delay, I hope you don't mind.
Nothing is missing, except an awareness that there is no self and that I am not separate. Apparently we are all whole and amazing and always have been and will be. These are things I know to be true but not things I experientially know to be true.
You have a clear intellectual understanding and your expectations are reasonable. So we don't have to work on that an can move to the next step.

Intellectual understanding is where we start. We arrive there by reasoning and thinking. We can form an image of our goal, which is helpful. Unfortunately thinking can only lead to assuming and believing, which is a thought, and thoughts come and go. In other words intellectually grapsing something does not equal true knowing. Knowing is seeing, first hand.

So what we are going to focus on is first hand information. What is first hand information? It is what you can experience directly (seeing/hearing/feeling/smelling/tasting and also thinking and feeling emotions) and for not something you read in a book. This means it is limited to the present moment (a memory is not first hand information nor is a phantasy about the future). First hand information we can verify for ourselves, second hand information can only lead to assumptions and beliefs and no belief is true.

So it is key that you understand this difference between first and second hand information. We will only rely first hand information in our sessions. Thus we will only use direct experiende (DE).

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:
If I ask you what colour socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:
• You can have a think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what colour you think they are.
• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what colour they actually are!
Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of our dialogue together, it is going to be very important that you are clear about this difference. Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that. We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment to moment experience. We are only interested in your direct experience in the moment.

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Love,

Phil
Stop following the crowd. They're lost as fuck.
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clarinet
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Re: Feeling life intentfully

Postby clarinet » Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:32 pm

Hi Phil

sorry for the delay, I hope you don't mind.

No I don't mind. I do feel impatient sometimes ... most times though I understand this is a great service you are providing and appreciate you for it.

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

I do understand the difference between intellectual understanding and first hand direct experience and don't feel I need it explained any further.


With love,
Clare

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Re: Feeling life intentfully

Postby Phil » Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:51 pm

Okay Clare cool!

I want you to do the following exercises.

Sit quietly and relax, take your time just looking at what is in front of you for awhile. Observe how the mind is dividing and labelling every thing into objects and is embellishing them with stories about what they are.

Sitting in a room, curtains closed, you wonder what the weather is like outside. You can think about it, look it up on the internet, watch the forecast on TV, call your mother and ask her - or you can simply open the curtains and have a look.

Give it some time. Then, stop watching the objects as labelled objects. Just look at the seeing itself. Observe the pure process of seeing. This is direct experience (DE). Let me know how this goes.

If this exercise feels good, you can tackle the next one. This is an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.
So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual/direct experience) and report back how you go.

Phil
Stop following the crowd. They're lost as fuck.
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Re: Feeling life intentfully

Postby clarinet » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:09 am

Hi Phil

Observe the pure process of seeing. This is direct experience (DE). Let me know how this goes.

I found the just seeing quite strange, sometimes I closed my eyes to stop the labelling and just experience. I felt quite dizzy when I did this, almost like my labelling and classifying was keeping me here in this experience and that when I stopped it I was leaving or falling off (the planet or something).

I see how much I tell a story about everything and almost miss the experience with all the labelling and doing - I have very little 'being' without all of these extra layers. I am constantly classifying everything as good or bad - especially here in a new temporary environment. I look around for what is wrong, what I can improve aesthetically - closing curtains, arranging the curtains and fixings according to my eye. Putting a chair in the sun to enjoy or because it is a more aesthetic spot, moving a pack of tissues because I think they are ugly, rearranging cushions for my comfort. I do this type of thing much more when I am on my own - my eyes have a huge input into my experience and a story is constantly being formed.

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual/direct experience) and report back how you go.

Breakfast:
Seeing a plate of fruit, = image/colour
Smelling dragonfruit, = smell
Forking the fruit, = sensation
Feeling the coolness of the fruit in my mouth, = sensation
Feeling the texture of the fruit, = sensation
Tasting the fruit, = taste
Tasting pineapple, = taste
Hearing the knife chopping the fruit, = sound
Thought about tasting dragonfruit for first time, = thought
Thought about pineapple being unripe and not sweet, = thought
Thought about watermelon white rind left on, = thought
Thought about dragonfruit bleeding like beetroot, = thought

Relying to you:
Seeing my laptop with the instructions from you, = image/colour
Smelling the incense I lit, = smell
Feeling my feet resting on the base of the table, = sensation
Feeling the breeze, = sensation
Hearing the breeze moving the plants, = sound
Hearing the water from the pool fountain, = sound
Feeling the keys on the keyboard, = sensation
Watching the ants move across the keyboard and table, = image/colour
Watching the plants move in the wind, = image /colour
Thought about this idyllic setting, = thought
Thought about what to do later today, = thought

Making the bed:
Seeing the bed all crumpled and slept in, = image/colour
Noticing there is no flooring change stepping out onto the balcony, = thought
Tying back the mossy net, = sensation
Feeling, pulling up and straightening the duvet, = sensation
Feeling and arranging the pillows, = sensation
Looking at the made bed, = image/colour
Thought about how nice it looks, = thought

Taking some photos:
Deciding to photograph all the statues and shrines in the garden, = thought
Deciding I need my phone & glasses, = thought
Getting my glasses and phone, = sensation
Choosing a photographic order, = thought
Taking a photo, = sensation
Hearing the photo be taken, = sound
Deciding to get a chair to take a photo from the right height, = thought
Carrying a chair, = sensation
Selecting the angle for the photos, = thought
Looking at the photos I took, = image/colour


Clare

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Re: Feeling life intentfully

Postby Phil » Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:17 pm

Hello Clare,


Thanking you for doing the exercises so dilligently.
I found the just seeing quite strange, sometimes I closed my eyes to stop the labelling and just experience. I felt quite dizzy when I did this
Good that you notice a difference and that it is difficult to keep the labelling from happening. And yes that can feel strange and even make you dizzy. It reminds me of that scene from the movie The Matrix. When Neo asks why his eyes hurt and Morpheus replies:" because you never used them before".
almost like my labelling and classifying was keeping me here in this experience and that when I stopped it I was leaving or falling off (the planet or something).
Is this your actual experience of could this be something you tell yourself? Where exactly are the labeling and classifying keeping you? What is this "where"? When you stop labelling will existence "end"? Will you fall of the planet as you put it? Is this based on direct experience? Or is it a thought? Investigate!
I see how much I tell a story about everything and almost miss the experience with all the labelling and doing
Yes true seeing, direct experience, which you have been practicing so well, is that split nanosecond you miss if you don't look for it. Just before labelling kicks in. So yes we miss seeing what is out there and only see what we have already labelled, categorised and colored. It's the vail that is keeping you from seeing.
I have very little 'being' without all of these extra layers.
You have no false being without these layers. Does that mean you have little being? What can you say about that which you do not see yet? Let's try to fully open our eyes and look what is there first. Instead of speculating. Is it a feeling that you have little being without your layers or is that your direct experience? If it is the latter, can you discribe your experience to me? If it is the first: look at the feeling directly. Take a step back and look at it. What is behind it? Is it your feeling? Can you find yourself behind it?
I look around for what is wrong, what I can improve aesthetically - closing curtains, arranging the curtains and fixings according to my eye. Putting a chair in the sun to enjoy or because it is a more aesthetic spot, moving a pack of tissues because I think they are ugly, rearranging cushions for my comfort. I do this type of thing much more when I am on my own - my eyes have a huge input into my experience and a story is constantly being formed.


It is good that you notice that are constantly looking for what is wrong and what can be improved. I like to think this is because we don't know what is going on but we tell ourselves that we do. This is our story and we believe it, it is what is. Than we compare "what is" with "what should be" and this is where resistance comes up. Keep notice it happening, it is a very good exercise. Like training a muscle. Take a step back and look at the resistance.

I like to note that there is nothing wrong with rearranging your furniture and moving stuff around in the house. I love doing that myself! I also like to dress nice and some clothes seem to look better on me than others. Nothing wrong with that, as long as it is happening by itself and you are not identifying yourself with what's going on. And keep noticing when resistance to what is comes up and also the story that is constantly being formed. Without judging, just observing. That doesn't mean you can't act upon it.

About those daily activities, how did it feel to this? When you look around you and do it now, what comes up? Can you report to me from your direct experience?

Love,

Phil
Stop following the crowd. They're lost as fuck.
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clarinet
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Re: Feeling life intentfully

Postby clarinet » Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:11 pm

Hi Phil

Thanks for your comments and guidance! Not sure how to set out comments to comments to comments...

Clare
"almost like my labelling and classifying was keeping me here in this experience and that when I stopped it I was leaving or falling off (the planet or something)."

Phil
Is this your actual experience of could this be something you tell yourself? Where exactly are the labeling and classifying keeping you? What is this "where"? When you stop labelling will existence "end"? Will you fall of the planet as you put it? Is this based on direct experience? Or is it a thought? Investigate!

I think it was something I told myself to try to explain feeling dizzy… and I was tying it in with Matrix type thoughts.


Clare
"I have very little 'being' without all of these extra layers."

Phil
You have no false being without these layers. Does that mean you have little being? What can you say about that which you do not see yet? Let's try to fully open our eyes and look what is there first. Instead of speculating. Is it a feeling that you have little being without your layers or is that your direct experience? If it is the latter, can you discribe your experience to me? If it is the first: look at the feeling directly. Take a step back and look at it. What is behind it? Is it your feeling? Can you find yourself behind it?

It’s a thought - that I have small amounts of time where I am just being. I am judging myself as being wrong. The motive I think was to acknowledge how wrong I was before you told me I was wrong, so that at least in my wrongness – I was aware of my wrongness, which almost made me right (about my wrongness).

“About those daily activities, how did it feel to this?”

Oh I liked doing it, I love an opportunity to do something well and it was quite fun but strange as well …to chop up experiences so thoroughly. Especially all the ones that were ‘sensations’ touching something, getting something, feeling wind, water & pressure = all just came under sensation.
When you look around you and do it now, what comes up? Can you report to me from your direct experience?
I feel a bit of resistance, I already did it. What is there to do it on now? Why do I need to do it again?

(A note to Phil - I’m in Adelaide now and it is freezing, previously when responding to you I was in Darwin and then Bali where it was tropical. I’m away on holiday for another week – back in Dunedin, NZ 16/08/2019)

Preparing the bed:
Check the sheets and pillowcases are cotton = sensation
Check and select which pillows to use = sensation
Un-tuck all the sheets and blankets = sensation
Look in cupboard for extra blanket = image/colour
Put extra blanket on the bed = sensation
Sit-bounce-jump on the bed = sensation
Think that the bed is quite comfortable = thought
Move the loveseat away from the end of the end = sensation
Think that the floor is tiles and will be cold = thought
Find a mat = image/colour
Put the mat beside the bed for my feet = sensation

Choosing the lighting:
Find all light switches = image/colour
Turn on all light switches = sensation
Look at the effect of the lamps = image/colour
Turn off some switches = sensation

Oh well I did a couple more, I found it quite splitting to slice up experiences like this again [lol]. Am I missing something?

With love,
Clare

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Re: Feeling life intentfully

Postby Phil » Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:16 am

Hello Clare,

I think it was something I told myself to try to explain feeling dizzy… and I was tying it in with Matrix type thoughts.
Let's not think, but make sure. We can stay in "I think" for eons to come. That's what you've been doing up to know. Let's clear the mist, lift the veil and see what's what using direct experience and not your thoughts. We are interested in what you know or don't know, not what you think and not what you belief of don't belief.

When I ask you a question, take the question in, repeat it in your head and make room for silence. Don't try to answer it with your thoughts, they are useless. Instead look. And if that proofs difficult: focus on the question, and wait for something to come up by itself, effortlessly.

Can you do this and answer the question again? Here's the questions again.

Is this your actual experience of could this be something you tell yourself? Where exactly are the labeling and classifying keeping you? What is this "where"? When you stop labelling will existence "end"? Will you fall of the planet as you put it? Is this based on direct experience? Or is it a thought? Investigate!
It’s a thought - that I have small amounts of time where I am just being.
It's a thought, very good. So again you were thinking and not looking in your actual experience. Good this is coming up again and again. Does it become clear to you that you are so used to trusting your rational mind that you are stuck in thought and therefore don't see what your actual experience is? Your world is therefore ideal (based on ideas) and not actual (based on direct experience).
I am judging myself as being wrong. The motive I think was to acknowledge how wrong I was before you told me I was wrong, so that at least in my wrongness – I was aware of my wrongness, which almost made me right (about my wrongness).
I have read this about 5 times and still can't make any sense of it. Can you rephrase this or better still. Take another look at the question and answer it again, using the tips from earlier on in this message?
it was quite fun but strange as well …to chop up experiences so thoroughly. Especially all the ones that were ‘sensations’ touching something, getting something, feeling wind, water & pressure = all just came under sensation.
We label our experiences immediately and automatically without thinking about it. We take the result (ideal world) to be the real experience (actual world). But that's not true: it has already been colored by our labelling. So we hardly every see the actual reality which we perceive through direct experience. That is what this exercise is trying to convey, make you aware of: the labelling process, by doing it deliberately. Does that make sense to you? Can you comment on this?
I feel a bit of resistance, I already did it. What is there to do it on now? Why do I need to do it again?
Because you did exercise but did not report back on your experience about it. When I give you an exercise, it's with good reason. So I am always trying to get a reaction out of you other than just doing the exercise. Does that make sense? Can you also comment on this to make sure we are on the same page?
Am I missing something?
You are doing a great job Clare. What I would like you to focus on is thoughts/experience and the labelling mechanism.

And the thing about exercises: doing them is great, but don't forget to report back on your experience. That's what they are for.

Love,

Phil
Stop following the crowd. They're lost as fuck.
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clarinet
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Re: Feeling life intentfully

Postby clarinet » Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:55 am

Hi Phil

Is this your actual experience of could this be something you tell yourself?
It is something I told myself.

Where exactly are the labeling and classifying keeping you?
In my mind.

What is this "where"?
Nowhere without thoughts this is nothing, just a black void.

When you stop labelling will existence "end"?
No, existence just is.

Will you fall of the planet as you put it?
No.

Is this based on direct experience? Or is it a thought? Investigate!
It was a thought trying to make sense of the direct experience of dizziness.

Does it become clear to you that you are so used to trusting your rational mind that you are stuck in thought and therefore don't see what your actual experience is? Your world is therefore ideal (based on ideas) and not actual (based on direct experience).
Yes it is becoming clearer to me, not totally - I will watch more for this so I do see it more clearly.

We label our experiences immediately and automatically without thinking about it. We take the result (ideal world) to be the real experience (actual world). But that's not true: it has already been colored by our labelling. So we hardly every see the actual reality which we perceive through direct experience. That is what this exercise is trying to convey, make you aware of: the labelling process, by doing it deliberately. Does that make sense to you? Can you comment on this?
Yes it makes sense - doing it in this way makes it clear that labelling is something that I do all the time. Of course the thoughts and labelling I do has a different format (lots of loops), but it does show me that I get lost and involved in thoughts and labelling all the time. All the time.

Because you did exercise but did not report back on your experience about it. When I give you an exercise, it's with good reason. So I am always trying to get a reaction out of you other than just doing the exercise. Does that make sense? Can you also comment on this to make sure we are on the same page?
Yes I understand you don't just want the exercise to be done you want to know my experience of it. It felt very familiar to be doing exercises, figuring out how to do it and then just repeating the process. Jumping through hoops for a certain outcome is something that I have recognised was necessary and done a lot - it is a the end justifies the means scenario. In this case I want to be free so I am doing this process, these exercises are part of the process. I am almost a little bit lost as to what you are wanting in terms of a description of my experience. My experience is drowned out by the all the labelling and thinking.

Love,
Clare


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