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Akuma
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...

Postby Akuma » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:29 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That consciousness is impersonal

What are you looking for at LU?
Hard to say, perhaps a deepening of realization. It seems like an interesting website, so just checking it out with an open mind really. I don't really expect much, afterall, everything I've ever seen in these types of websites etc. Always seems to just be a waste of time. Perhaps the impersonal consciousness manifesting through this body/mind is just looking for something to do? Fate? Destiny???

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I'm not sure, perhaps a deepening of awareness. The idea of "no self" as the key to liberation is intriguing. After all Buddha has said that "no self" is one key to understanding, yet at other time, such as in the "nirvana sutra" the self is confirmed as real and eternal. The topic is interesting

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have read many books and meditated, had some awakenings etc,

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

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Phil
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Re: ...

Postby Phil » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:36 pm

Hello Akuma,


sorry for the long wait. Are you ready to get started?

Phil
Stop following the crowd. They're lost as fuck.
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https://www.facebook.com/odonataconsulting/

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Akuma
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Re: ...

Postby Akuma » Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:27 pm

Ok...

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Re: ...

Postby Phil » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:46 pm

Good!

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Please learn to use the quote function. When replying to a question, please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. Instructions are located in the link below:

http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

Just let me know that you have read the disclaimer, the FAQ's and then we can get underway.

Talk soon,

Phil
Stop following the crowd. They're lost as fuck.
_______________________________________________
https://www.facebook.com/odonataconsulting/

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Akuma
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Re: ...

Postby Akuma » Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:02 pm

Done...

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Phil
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Re: ...

Postby Phil » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:17 am

Okay cool,


Here are some guidelines for you to bear in mind during our session:


1. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

2. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) / direct experience (DE)- smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

3. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. We have some recommended books listed, but even those can be distracting right now. Do keep reading Gateless Gatecrashers and/or Liberation Unleashed for examples of how this guiding works. All you have to do is LOOK. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Your answers to these questions and the answers given to the first 4 question will give me a good idea of where we are and where to go next.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Phil
Stop following the crowd. They're lost as fuck.
_______________________________________________
https://www.facebook.com/odonataconsulting/

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Akuma
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Re: ...

Postby Akuma » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:36 am

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?
I'm not sure I understand these questions...
How will life change? It most definitely wont
How will I change? I wont
What will be different? Probably nothing
What is missing? I dont sense that anything is missing, I dont sense that this process is going to somehow miraculously provide something missing, in fact Im quite skeptical.

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Phil
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Re: ...

Postby Phil » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:51 am

Hello Akuma,


thank you for your honest reply.
What are you looking for at LU?
Hard to say, perhaps a deepening of realization. It seems like an interesting website, so just checking it out with an open mind really. I don't really expect much, afterall, everything I've ever seen in these types of websites etc. Always seems to just be a waste of time. Perhaps the impersonal consciousness manifesting through this body/mind is just looking for something to do? Fate? Destiny???
What is missing? I dont sense that anything is missing, I dont sense that this process is going to somehow miraculously provide something missing, in fact Im quite skeptical.
What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I'm not sure, perhaps a deepening of awareness. The idea of "no self" as the key to liberation is intriguing. After all Buddha has said that "no self" is one key to understanding, yet at other time, such as in the "nirvana sutra" the self is confirmed as real and eternal. The topic is interesting
I understand both your curiosity and your skepticism very well. However I am not here to debate the relevance of LU here with you. I am here to facilitate your process. You are the one who is going to have to do all the work, not me.

So if you do not have a clear objective in mind, are not an honest and desperate seeker and have the expectation that this is going to be a waste of your time, then I can assure you that this conversation is going to go nowhere. And then I am not the right guide for you. And I don't think any of my collegues will be either, but you can try.

Allthough very obvious and in your face, reality eludes almost everybody. So seeing it is very demanding in terms of motivation. And intruiging and interesting are just not going to do it for you.

In other words, it is not my job to convince spiritual tourtists that what we do here is not some new age fraud. Don't take this the wrong way. It's nothing personal, I am just not here to debate only a facilitate. And there are a lot of seekers waiting at the gate who do have a clear intention and a need for guidance.

I will also present your case to the other guides and ask what is the best way to procede.

Let me know what you think about what I wrote. I will get back to you after consulting with the other guides.

Much love,

Phil
Phil
Stop following the crowd. They're lost as fuck.
_______________________________________________
https://www.facebook.com/odonataconsulting/

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Phil
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Re: ...

Postby Phil » Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:24 am

Akuma,


Here is a link to a free pdf book full of sessions with clients that crashed the gate. This will give you a more clear idea about what LU is about and what you can expect.

http://www.liberationunleashed.com/PDF/ ... ashers.pdf

Talk soon!

Phil
Stop following the crowd. They're lost as fuck.
_______________________________________________
https://www.facebook.com/odonataconsulting/

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Akuma
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Re: ...

Postby Akuma » Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:48 pm

So... I thought this was about the idea of "no self" not what I am missing or hoping to gain? According to the links you provided above about this site- its not really about gaining anything??

I had a quick look at the book, it doesnt seem to be really relevant to me personally, afterall, they are all unique individuals with different characters.

I am simply here to investigate the "no self" concept. Who knows? Perhaps I have seen through it already? I dont know...
The objective of this site is quite vague...
My understanding is we are trying to see through the idea of a separate self, no more, no less......?

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Akuma
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Re: ...

Postby Akuma » Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:56 pm

I'm not sure I understand these questions...
How will life change? It most definitely wont
How will I change? I wont
What will be different? Probably nothing
What is missing? I dont sense that anything is missing, I dont sense that this process is going to somehow miraculously provide something missing, in fact Im quite skeptical.
I will add this- I dont see how life would change simply by seeing that there is no self, simply because, it might be like asking someone what the surface of a distant planet is like? Or perhaps I have already seen there is no self? I still dont think that could would change in any way, it would most likely just be more of the same.... Am I wrong in this?

I also dont see how I would change or how anything would be different either? If there is no "I" and its just a mental concept then there is no "I" to change? And what would be different? Well I guess you could say that I could *possibly* know there is no self on a deeper level, if you are willing to work with me.

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Akuma
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Re: ...

Postby Akuma » Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:13 pm

I will also add-
When we talk about our "self", in general, we are talking about a unique body-mind-unit, a being in time and space. A separate person. A unique individual. This is just common sense.

My understanding is that the "no self" of the "no self" idea, is really better described as the "ego self" or "who I think I am", all the unique factors of likes and dislikes, the "individual". The "separate ego self" that has preferences etc. My understanding of this whole thing is that there is some sort of impersonal-universal-consciousness perceiving through unique body-mind-units...

"Akuma" is a unique body-mind-unit, an individual in time and space. Are you saying that there is no individual ? Or are you saying there is no separate "ego self". What exactly do you mean by "No separate self" on this site?

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Phil
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Re: ...

Postby Phil » Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:09 pm

Hello,


Thank you for your swift reply and your detailed account of where you are at. And of course I am willing to work with you, that is what I am here for.
So... I thought this was about the idea of "no self" not what I am missing or hoping to gain? According to the links you provided above about this site- its not really about gaining anything??
Very true, we are here to investigate the self/no-self. And the engine of this quest is the desire for Truth, whatever that may be. There is nothing to gain because there is nothing missing. If this is what you experience, you might already have crashed the gate. Let's see.
I had a quick look at the book, it doesnt seem to be really relevant to me personally, afterall, they are all unique individuals with different characters.
The stories don't matter, it is about the process. I wanted to show you how the process that we are about to embark on works. And although they are not your stories, the stories of others can be nevertheless very insightful.
I am simply here to investigate the "no self" concept. Who knows? Perhaps I have seen through it already? I dont know...
Let's find out.
The objective of this site is quite vague...
My understanding is we are trying to see through the idea of a separate self, no more, no less......?
Yes this is what we do. Please let me know where this is vague or ambigues so I can clear the smoke for you.
I will add this- I dont see how life would change simply by seeing that there is no self, simply because, it might be like asking someone what the surface of a distant planet is like? Or perhaps I have already seen there is no self? I still dont think that could would change in any way, it would most likely just be more of the same.... Am I wrong in this?
From personal experience: there is a world of difference after crashing the gate. Everything is different and yet nothing has changed. What shifts is your point of view, not the world.
I also dont see how I would change or how anything would be different either? If there is no "I" and its just a mental concept then there is no "I" to change? And what would be different? Well I guess you could say that I could *possibly* know there is no self on a deeper level, if you are willing to work with me.


If your living reality is that there is no "I" and that it is just a mental concept then that means that you have already crashed the gate and seen through the illusion of the self. Very possible, and we can examine this further to confirm it.
I will also add-
When we talk about our "self", in general, we are talking about a unique body-mind-unit, a being in time and space. A separate person. A unique individual. This is just common sense.
We keep using the same language, it has a practical use to do so. Just as "I" keep refering to "you" and "me" so as that we can understand eachother and communicate. But we do not make the mistake for making this grammatica construction a living reality.
My understanding is that the "no self" of the "no self" idea, is really better described as the "ego self" or "who I think I am", all the unique factors of likes and dislikes, the "individual". The "separate ego self" that has preferences etc. My understanding of this whole thing is that there is some sort of impersonal-universal-consciousness perceiving through unique body-mind-units...
Do you experience unique body-mind-units? Or is that just an idea? Does a school exist or is it just a bunch of buildings and furniture and people? Does a table exist or is that a name we give to its parts?
"Akuma" is a unique body-mind-unit, an individual in time and space. Are you saying that there is no individual ? Or are you saying there is no separate "ego self". What exactly do you mean by "No separate self" on this site?
I am not saying anything, but I am asking: is there an individual? Where is it? In your body? What if you lose all your limbs, are you still you? And if your organs would be replaced by machines, are you still you? Where are you then? In your head? Look into this and report back.

I really appreciate your hard work and I enjoy this talk. Let's keep going.

Love,

Phil
Stop following the crowd. They're lost as fuck.
_______________________________________________
https://www.facebook.com/odonataconsulting/

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Akuma
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Re: ...

Postby Akuma » Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:32 pm

Do you experience unique body-mind-units? Or is that just an idea? Does a school exist or is it just a bunch of buildings and furniture and people? Does a table exist or is that a name we give to its parts?
I think it is common sense that there is, indeed, unique body-minds walking and talking, all over the place...

"School" is just a word that describes and sums up the "bunch of buildings and furniture and people".

A "table" is the linguistic logo we give to an actual existing object in time and space.

When it comes to "I" or "me", I think it is overwhelmingly obvious that, that is just a logo someone gives their unique body-mind-unit...

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Akuma
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Re: ...

Postby Akuma » Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:42 pm

I am not saying anything, but I am asking: is there an individual? Where is it? In your body? What if you lose all your limbs, are you still you? And if your organs would be replaced by machines, are you still you? Where are you then? In your head? Look into this and report back.
There are individuals, there are unique body-minds in the world that are perceived to be, just common sense really. The individual would be made up of an unique body and a unique temperament or character. If you were to lose all your limbs you would simply be the same person without limbs, same as if your organs were replaced by machines. Where am I? I'm currently in Australia as a unique body-mind-unit, living in a space-time world, typing on the computer....


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