What is my experience trying to show me? Seeking what I REALLY am in Truth.

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GFree
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Re: What is my experience trying to show me? Seeking what I REALLY am in Truth.

Postby GFree » Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:42 pm

Vivien -

This is a big one. So please forgive me for my staggered, delayed replies. I appreciate your support. I can see that I am going to have to carve out some time to really sit down and answer these things. Summertime in Canada is a busy one, and there has been company coming and going, as well as work. This morning I only had 20 minutes.
Where do thoughts come from?
I really don't know whee they come from. They come, unbidden. They just appear, like a puff of smoke.

Where are they going?
They come. They disappear. I don't know where they are going. They just are.

Can ‘you’ stop a thought in the middle?
I don't seem to be able to. They come in a stream. They even comment on themselves: "these thoughts are so heavy …… I want to get rid of them" , OMG - they seem to go on endlessly, commenting - like they have a life of their own. Hahaha - I can see that I made a comment on a comment. Again - a thought.
Can I predict what will be the next thought?
No.
Can I choose not to have negative or painful thoughts?
I lost all of my answers for this question! So I am reposting an synopsis in a hurry.

I find that my mind has been triggered by this question. I need to spend more time than I have this morning on it. I want to say that I think that I can turn my attention to a more constructive or positive thoughts. Who or what was it that wanted to see that I have no self? How is this happening? Do I not have any free will? How is my life being lived? I clearly need more time . . . . I am stuck on this question. Who or what needs to know? How do you live your life Vivien? Who chooses for freedom?

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Vivien
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Re: What is my experience trying to show me? Seeking what I REALLY am in Truth.

Postby Vivien » Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:00 am

Hi Gwen,
This is a big one. So please forgive me for my staggered, delayed replies. I appreciate your support. I can see that I am going to have to carve out some time to really sit down and answer these things. Summertime in Canada is a busy one, and there has been company coming and going, as well as work. This morning I only had 20 minutes.
I understand that you are busy. However, it is important to create a proper momentum in order to successfully carry out this investigation. What's needed is focus and intensity. The only way to enable these is to strive to post at least once a day.
Who or what was it that wanted to see that I have no self? How is this happening? Do I not have any free will? How is my life being lived? I clearly need more time . . . . I am stuck on this question. Who or what needs to know? Who chooses for freedom?
These are good questions. However, it’s useful to focus the attention to certain topics at a time, otherwise it could be overwhelming. Also the detail and precision is needed to look at each questions can be lost too.
How do you live your life Vivien?
I live my life just as you do. There is no difference on the surface level.
The only difference is that I can see that there is no ‘me’, no entity or agency inside the body called Vivien.
The only difference is the knowing and the recognition of this fact.

But please don’t try to figure out the answers of your questions intellectually. That won’t help. Not at all. Actually, it could be a hindrance if you spend your time on thinking “how is my life being lived?”. In order to really know the answer, you have to abandon thinking altogether and just look at experience directly.

This is what I am trying to show you how to do it. But if don’t reply daily, I have no chance to point out where you might be on a wrong track, or that you are thinking instead of looking.

So please try to post daily. Or at least every second day. Can we agree on this?

I won’t reply and comment on your responses. I will wait until you replied to all my questions.

I often use capital letters or sometimes bolds or even colors to emphasise the importance of certain sentences or words. I’m not doing this to yell at you or show that I am frustrated with you. :) It’s not personal. It’s just my way of emphasise the importance of certain things. I put certain words in caps to guide your attention to a certain direction. I might ask: “How does the ‘I’ is FELT?” – the word ‘felt’ is in caps to point your attention to the sensations itself that are labelled as ‘I’ (and not to other aspects of the self).

I’m just telling this to you, because there’s been a client of mine who interpreted it as yelling, and felt offended. So I decided to explain this to all my clients to avoid misinterpretations.

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Re: What is my experience trying to show me? Seeking what I REALLY am in Truth.

Postby GFree » Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:19 am

I think” - What is 'I'? What is the one that thinks?
I think - What is “I”? What is the one that thinks?
I can’t find an “I”. What is the one that thinks? I don’t know. I can’t find that one.
What is the thinker of thoughts?
Again - this can’t be found. They appear.
Does the thinker of thoughts appear in experience? Can it be found?
No. It can’t be found.
Or could the “I” that thinks be just a thought?
It it really possible that the “I” that thinks is just a thought. I can see that. Yes - this seems really wild - but possible.
Do you think thoughts, or are you just being thought?
This is a hard one. A twisty one. I can’t answer this one honestly. I don’t know.
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?
For some reason this question makes me giggle. No- it is not possible. Including the thought “I”. What a great question. Yes!! I love this! Maybe “I” am just a thought that is appearing! Hmmmm. ...

I will try my best to answer daily, as I said. I AM making time for this. I am serious and excited about this, but some days I cannot. I am working Aug 1,2 and 3. I work 12 hour days in a critical care area and will not be able to answer on those days. I hope that this is okay with you.

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Re: What is my experience trying to show me? Seeking what I REALLY am in Truth.

Postby Vivien » Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:07 am

Hi Gwen,
I will try my best to answer daily, as I said. I AM making time for this. I am serious and excited about this, but some days I cannot. I am working Aug 1,2 and 3. I work 12 hour days in a critical care area and will not be able to answer on those days. I hope that this is okay with you.
Yes, that’s all right. I just wanted to emphasize the importance of continuous looking. But sometimes life has other plans :) It’s good that you are serious and excited. This will help a lot.
I really don't know whee they come from. They come, unbidden. They just appear, like a puff of smoke.
They come. They disappear. I don't know where they are going. They just are.
Yes. Thoughts are not coming from and going to anywhere.
The only thing that can be said, that there is a thought present. That’s all.
I don't seem to be able to. They come in a stream. They even comment on themselves: "these thoughts are so heavy …… I want to get rid of them" , OMG - they seem to go on endlessly, commenting - like they have a life of their own. Hahaha - I can see that I made a comment on a comment. Again - a thought.
Nice looking.
V: Can I choose not to have negative or painful thoughts?
G: I lost all of my answers for this question! So I am reposting an synopsis in a hurry.
So, can you choose not to have negative or painful thoughts? – look carefully
V: What is the thinker of thoughts?
G: Again - this can’t be found. They appear.
You mean the thoughts appear, or the thinker?
How is it known if there is a thinker of thoughts at all?
For some reason this question makes me giggle. No- it is not possible. Including the thought “I”. What a great question. Yes!! I love this! Maybe “I” am just a thought that is appearing! Hmmmm. ...
Nice looking! :)

What can a thought do?
Does a thought have volition?
Can it manipulate other thoughts or think new thoughts?


Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Re: What is my experience trying to show me? Seeking what I REALLY am in Truth.

Postby GFree » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:38 pm

So, can you choose not to have negative or painful thoughts? – look carefully
No. The thoughts simply arrive. I can't choose any thoughts, but I can direct my attention to other things when I have negative or painful thoughts.
You mean the thoughts appear, or the thinker?
The thoughts appear.
What is the thinker of thoughts?
I don't know what is the thinker of thoughts. The thoughts just appear. It seems like I have a strong habit of only focusing on my thoughts.
How is it known if there is a thinker of thoughts at all?
There is no way that I know that there is a thinker of thoughts.

What can a thought do?
A thought can do NOTHING! Why do I pay so much attention to them?
Does a thought have volition?
No, a thought does not have volition.
Can it manipulate other thoughts or think new thoughts?
No - a thought can do nothing. It just is. It exists. That is all. But if I believe the thought, I may change my behaviour.

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Re: What is my experience trying to show me? Seeking what I REALLY am in Truth.

Postby Vivien » Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:50 am

Hi Gwen,
The thoughts simply arrive. I can't choose any thoughts, but I can direct my attention to other things when I have negative or painful thoughts.
Let’s take a look at the idea that there is a someone who is focusing attention.

Close your eyes and sit quietly for 10-15 minutes.
Watch what focus does.

Focus on focusing, attention itself.
Is there anything moving attention, or it moves by itself?
Is there a focus-er?


Hold focus on breath - see how it moves to thoughts, sensations, sounds.
Is there something controlling it?
What moves attention?
Is thought in control of attention?

I don't know what is the thinker of thoughts. The thoughts just appear. It seems like I have a strong habit of only focusing on my thoughts.
“It seems like I have a strong habit of…” – what does the word ‘I’ point to in this sentence?
What is it that has a strong habit on focusing on thoughts?
A thought can do NOTHING! Why do I pay so much attention to them?
What is it that is paying so much attention on thoughts?
Where is this ‘I’ exactly?
No - a thought can do nothing. It just is. It exists. That is all. But if I believe the thought, I may change my behaviour.
“But if I believe the thought” – what is it that is believing in the thought?
WHERE is the believer? – find its exact location

“I may change my behaviour” – what does the word ‘I’ refer to in this sentence?
WHERE is the ‘I’ exactly that can change its behaviour?


Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Re: What is my experience trying to show me? Seeking what I REALLY am in Truth.

Postby GFree » Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:42 pm

Vivien -

Thank you so much for pointing and for your assistance in this endeavour. I really appreciate your support!

I must speak with complete honesty, otherwise this whole exercise will be useless. Maybe what I write is simply drivel from my thoughts. I feel like I'm being unravelled, or like I'm looking for this "I". This "I" is like a haystack. Like the image of looking for a needle in a haystack. That's it - I'm digging, pulling away hay by the handful - "where is this needle? Where is "I"." "I" is like the haystack - it's luck a construct of ideas that forms the "I", but there is no substance. Somehow "I" am holding on to this belief though. Arggh! This feels so frustrating!

When you say "focus your attention on breathing" for example; how/who/what causes me to do this? Somehow I take in these instructions and follow them. Somehow my focus is on the breathing. And yes - at the same time, I see that there is no "I", ever!
Close your eyes and sit quietly for 10-15 minutes.
Watch what focus does.

Focus on focusing, attention itself.
Is there anything moving attention, or it moves by itself?
Is there a focus-er?

When I do this, I notice that focus just "is". Focusing seems to move by itself. There is narration about relaxing, narration about fear coming up. Noticing sound, noticing sensations of body position. Narration on all of that. I could not find a focus-er. Just focus, moving around. I could not find a self in it, that was directing it. It just moved, and a string of narration followed it. No focus-er. Just focus. Excuse the repetition, it seems to be helping me put these blocks together.
Hold focus on breath - see how it moves to thoughts, sensations, sounds.
Is there something controlling it?
What moves attention?
Is thought in control of attention?
It seemed as though attention happened first, and then thought. Again, I could not find a something that controlled it. I couldn't find anything that moved attention. Although now the question come up - when you ask me to pay attention, the focus moves there. What controls this? Is this a dance? It seems like a dance!
“It seems like I have a strong habit of…” – what does the word ‘I’ point to in this sentence?
What is it that has a strong habit on focusing on thoughts?
What is it that has a strong habit? Attention? Attention is on thought. That is all.
What is it that is paying so much attention on thoughts?
Where is this ‘I’ exactly?
There is no "I", there is just awareness. There is just a belief in an "I".

What is holding on to this belief??????

“But if I believe the thought” – what is it that is believing in the thought?
WHERE is the believer? – find its exact location
What is it that is believing in the thought?? Belief is just another thought. It's just something that appears. I want to say that the believer is in my body. In the body. But I have never found it there. A thought appears. Another thought appears. Thoughts of sensations appear. A/my body moves. "I" or something, believe (again another thought) that I am in control of all of this. Clearly I am not - haha! I want to say that I am clinging to the thought, but there is no "I"! "I" need to let this settle, "I" can feel so much anxiety rising.
I may change my behaviour” – what does the word ‘I’ refer to in this sentence?
WHERE is the ‘I’ exactly that can change its behaviour?
I cannot find the "I"! No matter where my attention goes, there is no "I".

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Re: What is my experience trying to show me? Seeking what I REALLY am in Truth.

Postby Vivien » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:52 am

Hi Gwen,
I must speak with complete honesty, otherwise this whole exercise will be useless. Maybe what I write is simply drivel from my thoughts. I feel like I'm being unravelled, or like I'm looking for this "I". This "I" is like a haystack. Like the image of looking for a needle in a haystack. That's it - I'm digging, pulling away hay by the handful - "where is this needle? Where is "I"." "I" is like the haystack - it's luck a construct of ideas that forms the "I", but there is no substance. Somehow "I" am holding on to this belief though. Arggh! This feels so frustrating!
This is normal. You are doing very well. And yes, frustration might come, but you don’t have to take it too seriously. It’s part of the process.
When I do this, I notice that focus just "is". Focusing seems to move by itself. There is narration about relaxing, narration about fear coming up.
"I" or something, believe (again another thought) that I am in control of all of this. Clearly I am not - haha! I want to say that I am clinging to the thought, but there is no "I"! "I" need to let this settle, "I" can feel so much anxiety rising.
Fear/anxiety is nothing more than a protective mechanism, and it does its job well. There is a belief, a story somewhere about pain or negative consequences to seeing the illusion of the self. And the fear tries to protect you from these supposed negative consequences. So let’s find out what this story is about and see if they are real threats or not.

What I’d like you to do is to investigate this fear. Examine it closely. Feel it. Don’t try to fix it or solve it, just sit with it.
Ask the fear as if it were a some kind of entity:

What do you want to protect me from?
What is the ‘negative’ story, what would happen if the illusion of the self is seen through?


Observe what visual thoughts and stories come up ‘justifying’ its right to fear.
If you ignore the stories (thoughts) and visual thoughts what is BEHIND the fear?

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Re: What is my experience trying to show me? Seeking what I REALLY am in Truth.

Postby GFree » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:25 pm

Ask the fear as if it were a some kind of entity:

What do you want to protect me from?
What is the ‘negative’ story, what would happen if the illusion of the self is seen through?
I sat with the fear, and I can still feel a tightness in the body. It wants to protect me from being extinguished. No story of "I" or "me" or "Gwen". Fear of the unknown. Beyond the story. What is there?

I understand that that "Gwen" never existed. Only as a story. Only in the mind, yet still the fear is there. I tell it, "I see you, I hear you" The sensations travel through my body. Tightness through the chest. Breathing happening. Tightness moving upward. Now in the mouth. Breathing happening. Big breath. Quiet . . .
If you ignore the stories (thoughts) and visual thoughts what is BEHIND the fear?
There is silence . . . . there is nothing . . . . . there is presence . . . . there is space.

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Re: What is my experience trying to show me? Seeking what I REALLY am in Truth.

Postby Vivien » Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:29 am

Hi Gwen,
I sat with the fear, and I can still feel a tightness in the body. It wants to protect me from being extinguished. No story of "I" or "me" or "Gwen". Fear of the unknown. Beyond the story. What is there?
I understand that that "Gwen" never existed. Only as a story. Only in the mind, yet still the fear is there. I tell it, "I see you, I hear you" The sensations travel through my body. Tightness through the chest. Breathing happening. Tightness moving upward. Now in the mouth. Breathing happening. Big breath. Quiet . . .
You did a nice looking with this. With the above example you can see that when a thought is believed then it’s often followed with all sorts of sensations in the body.
When you say "focus your attention on breathing" for example; how/who/what causes me to do this? Somehow I take in these instructions and follow them. Somehow my focus is on the breathing. And yes - at the same time, I see that there is no "I", ever!
Your question is based on the belief that there is cause and effect. Cause and effect is based on the belief in time. We will investigate these later. Cause and effect are just as illusions as the self.
When I do this, I notice that focus just "is". Focusing seems to move by itself. There is narration about relaxing, narration about fear coming up. Noticing sound, noticing sensations of body position. Narration on all of that.
Yes. So focusing happens on its own, without anything doing it.
And thoughts adds narration saying that “I am the one who is focusing’.
But in experience, there is no focuser at all.
Only thoughts talk about the focuser, but the focuser is not there. It’s assumed to be there, but actually there is nothing there.
Can you see this?
Although now the question come up - when you ask me to pay attention, the focus moves there. What controls this? Is this a dance?
There is an assumption here that in order to something to happen, there must be a controller. But is that so?

Things and actions happening but without someone or something doing it.

Just as wind is blowing. What is blowing the wind? Is there a blower?
Or the rain is raining. What is doing the raining? Is there a rainer?
Focusing is happening. Is there a focuser?
It's just something that appears. I want to say that the believer is in my body. In the body. But I have never found it there. A thought appears. Another thought appears. Thoughts of sensations appear. A/my body moves. "I" or something, believe (again another thought) that I am in control of all of this. Clearly I am not - haha! I want to say that I am clinging to the thought, but there is no "I"! "I" need to let this settle, "I" can feel so much anxiety rising.
This body has been functioning perfectly well without a controller inside of it.
So just because the controller will be seen through, it doesn’t mean that anything will change. Not at all.
There has never been a controller in the body.
So the only change will be the recognition of this fact.
Only the belief in the controller will fall away.

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence. Or is it just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that "one thought follows another thought"?

What does generate thoughts?
What do the thoughts belong to? What owns them?

Is “I” a place where thoughts appear, or is “I” a thought that arises and subsides by itself?
Is there a location where thoughts appear?

Is there anything in experience that makes thoughts appear?


Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Re: What is my experience trying to show me? Seeking what I REALLY am in Truth.

Postby GFree » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:57 pm

Vivien!

Thank you again for your questions. Once again I want to express my gratitude for your guidance.

I am feeling frustrated by the steady stream of thoughts and my focus on them. While I was at work, when I could, I observed by body moving, almost disassociated from it. However, I work in a fast paced, intensive environment where a lot of thinking is required. Mixing drugs, responding to emergent changes in patients and situations etc., so I found that I needed to stay with my thoughts.

With these questions, these pointers and the way we need to communicate, I find it engages the thinking process in a way that takes me out of "being", or "knowing" or whatever we are calling it. It's like thoughts intrude on what is happening. It's only LOOKING, experiencing where there are brief insights that occur before the steady stream of words tries to define what is essentially indefinable. It's frustrating, and I'm getting worried that I won't get it.
Yes. So focusing happens on its own, without anything doing it.
And thoughts adds narration saying that “I am the one who is focusing’.
But in experience, there is no focuser at all.
Only thoughts talk about the focuser, but the focuser is not there. It’s assumed to be there, but actually there is nothing there.
Can you see this?
Yes. With focusing, there is only focusing happening. Beauty and aliveness in what is. Life. Flowing. Happening. Somehow the focus is also part of the whole.
Just as wind is blowing. What is blowing the wind? Is there a blower?
Or the rain is raining. What is doing the raining? Is there a rainer?
Focusing is happening. Is there a focuser?
No. There is no focuser.

I notice that I hold a belief that somehow there is a controller or focuser located somewhere behind my eyes. So much data comes in through my eyes. I close them to filter it out, but still there is a thought that somehow "I" am behind my eyes. I honestly can't find it there. What is location anyway?
Or is it just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that "one thought follows another thought"?
I noticed that thoughts occur very randomly, with no sequence, no logic. One follows another. Jumping and spinning from topic to topic. Sometimes generated by a noticing, an emotional text received. Some stickier than others, repeating in sequence.
What does generate thoughts?
Sometimes it will occur after a noticing and will be commenting about what was seen, interpreted, labelled. But I do not know what generates it, in experience. I could theorize, but I think it is drawing me away from the actual experience of what is happening.
What do the thoughts belong to? What owns them?
OMG - I do not feel this answer in my bones, but I can answer that they don't belong to anyone. They are not personal! What a huge relief, not to have personal thoughts! Freedom!

Is “I” a place where thoughts appear, or is “I” a thought that arises and subsides by itself?
I can't find a place where thoughts appear, although, as I wrote earlier, it seems that I hold a belief that they appear somewhere behind my eyes. "I" seems to be a concept, or a collection of beliefs that I have. A sticky and pervasive one. I am looking looking looking.

Eagerly awaiting your guidance . . . . .

Gwen

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Re: What is my experience trying to show me? Seeking what I REALLY am in Truth.

Postby Vivien » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:14 am

Hi Gwen,
Once again I want to express my gratitude for your guidance.
You are very welcome :)
With these questions, these pointers and the way we need to communicate, I find it engages the thinking process in a way that takes me out of "being", or "knowing" or whatever we are calling it. It's like thoughts intrude on what is happening.
Seeing through the self is not about being in a state of ‘being’ or ‘knowing’, not at all. So the aim is not to get into any state. The aim is to investigate this almost constant thought overlay and see if it is in line with the experience. But we are not trying to get rid of this thought overlay, we are just investigating if they are ‘telling the truth’.
It's only LOOKING, experiencing where there are brief insights that occur before the steady stream of words tries to define what is essentially indefinable.
Yes. So you read a question, stop, look and see what is happening in experience, and then you use words/thoughts to describe what has been seen as precisely as you can.
It's frustrating, and I'm getting worried that I won't get it.
You don’t have to worry. We’ve just started the investigation. It doesn’t matter how long it takes, it will take as long as it takes.
V: What do the thoughts belong to? What owns them?
G: OMG - I do not feel this answer in my bones, but I can answer that they don't belong to anyone. They are not personal! What a huge relief, not to have personal thoughts! Freedom!
And what is that doesn’t have personal thoughts?
Is there a Gwen somewhere, who is so happy of not having personal thoughts?
Where is she?
Where is the self that has no personal thoughts?
I can't find a place where thoughts appear, although, as I wrote earlier, it seems that I hold a belief that they appear somewhere behind my eyes. "I" seems to be a concept, or a collection of beliefs that I have. A sticky and pervasive one. I am looking looking looking.
All right, let’s look at this. It’s important to emphasize that the self is not just simply a thought/concept. The sensation that is mistakenly labelled as me plays a huge role in the seeming appearance of ‘sense of self’.

So there is a plain sensation, like a pressure in the head, and thoughts label this sensation as ‘me’.

So the reason why the ‘me’ SEEMS or FEELS so real, is because the sensation is real. The sensation is there.
And since this sensation is labelled as ‘me’: BUMMM! The seeming sense of self appears.
So the sensation is giving the ‘reality effect’ to the thought concept of ‘me’.
Can you see this?


So localize the sensation behind the eyes that feels to be ‘me’.
Just keep the focus of attention on that sensation by FEELING that sensation.
And while you FEEL that sensation, ask:

What does make this sensation into a ‘me’?
Does this sensation communicates that it is a ‘me’?
If the answer is yes, how does this sensation do this exactly?
Does the sensation have any characteristics or attributes?


Please repeat this exercise as often as you can remember during the day. Let me know what you find.

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Re: What is my experience trying to show me? Seeking what I REALLY am in Truth.

Postby GFree » Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:00 am

Hi Vivian!
I’m visiting on Salt Spring Island where cell service is pretty sketchy. I’ve got
My cell phone and will give this a go!

So the reason why the ‘me’ SEEMS or FEELS so real, is because the sensation is real. The sensation is there.
And since this sensation is labelled as ‘me’: BUMMM! The seeming sense of self appears.
So the sensation is giving the ‘reality effect’ to the thought concept of ‘me’.
Can you see this?
I can see this. This makes sense.
What is it that doesn’t have personal thoughts? Is there a Gwen somewhere so happy of not having personal thoughts?
A thought happens “oh wow! I can see that thoughts just happen - theu’re Not personal!” It seems to appear in a part of me where thoughts appear, as I said, behind
My eyes. But there really is no self that has personal thoughts because thoughts just appear. There are thoughts. There are sensations
So sensation of pressure in the head, pressure in the throat, pressure in my chest is giving a reality effect of me I can see this.
What does make this sensation into a me[/quote

In reality, nothing. I just assumed that it was “me”

.
Does this sensation communicate that it is me?

No ... also - it should not be observable if it was me

I am doing exercise and will report on it tomorrow.

Thank you Vivien, it is difficult to do this on a cell phone with a little reception

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Vivien
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Re: What is my experience trying to show me? Seeking what I REALLY am in Truth.

Postby Vivien » Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:24 am

Hi Gwen,
A thought happens “oh wow! I can see that thoughts just happen - theu’re Not personal!” It seems to appear in a part of me where thoughts appear, as I said, behind
My eyes. But there really is no self that has personal thoughts because thoughts just appear. There are thoughts. There are sensations
So sensation of pressure in the head, pressure in the throat, pressure in my chest is giving a reality effect of me I can see this.
All right. The sense of self inside the head is just a sensation mislabelled as ‘me’.

Just keep the focus on the sensation that feels the most me-like.
Try to localize this sensation as precisely as you can.
So you have to find the sensation inside the head that is labelled as ‘me’.

Look precisely again and again where the ‘me’ feels to be, the sensation inside the head.
Is it behind the eyes, or at the back of the head, or maybe not right at the back of the skull, but closer in? Somewhere around the centre, but towards the eyes perhaps?

Search for the sensation inside the head that is labelled as ‘me’ and just FEEL it as often as you can remember during the day.

What does make this sensation into a ‘me’?
Does this sensation communicates that it is a ‘me’?
If the answer is yes, how does this sensation do this exactly?
Does the sensation have any characteristics or attributes?


Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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GFree
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Re: What is my experience trying to show me? Seeking what I REALLY am in Truth.

Postby GFree » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:20 am

Good morning Vivien. Thank you again for helping me to sort out this persistant belief.

Is it behind the eyes, or at the back of the head, or maybe not right at the back of the skull, but closer in? Somewhere around the centre, but towards the eyes perhaps?
It feels like the 'me' is located just behind my eyes, perhaps a bit lower. I think that it's because where it feels like the thoughts are arising. That, and a constriction in my throat, but I think that this sensation comes and goes. The sensation seems most strongly associated with thought and sight - or maybe I should clarify that sight only insofar as the thought seems to describe and label what I'm seeing. Then the sensation is felt behind my eyes.

Search for the sensation inside the head that is labelled as ‘me’ and just FEEL it as often as you can remember during the day.
What does make this sensation into a ‘me’?
My attention is directed at the steady stream of thoughts produced. And then the thought that I am controlling the body and making decisions. When I question this, I don't find evidence that I am making decisions, but that thoughts follow thoughts. I can look at your question "what does make this sensation into a 'me', and see nothing that makes it into a me, only that I have a belief that it's a 'me'.

Does this sensation communicates that it is a ‘me’?
No it doesn't really communicate at all. Just produces thoughts endlessly.
Does the sensation have any characteristics or attributes?
I'm not sure how to asnwer this question . . . . um .... maybe just a feeling of pressure. Otherwise, it doesn't seem to have any attributes of it's own. I'm going to continue to repeat this exercise as this belief seems so sticky. I seem to flip from FEELING to thinking.

I'm going to reread what has been written over the last couple of days to see if I can shake this belief a little.


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