What is my experience trying to show me? Seeking what I REALLY am in Truth.

Welcome to the main forum. When you are ready to start a conversation, register and once your application is processed a guide will come to talk to you.
This is one-on-one style forum, one thread per green member.
User avatar
GFree
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:53 am

What is my experience trying to show me? Seeking what I REALLY am in Truth.

Postby GFree » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:56 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
LU is providing support to help me see that this belief that I am telling myself - that there is an entity named "Gwen"- is not real. You will be asking questions to point myself to this experience.

What are you looking for at LU?
Support. I am looking with someone with more experience to ask questions that will lead me to be able to dismantle my story. I don't think that I can do it by myself - I keep stumbling over my old patterns of thinking.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect that someone with more experience than myself will be able to spot my stumbling blocks and will be able to point me in the right direction. I expect that whomever is chosen as my guide will respond to my answers. I am hoping that they will be kind. I am experiencing a lot of fear that is coming up with this endeavour.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Hmmm. It's hard to quantify. I think that I have been looking my whole life. My bookshelf is absolutely chock ablock full of self-help and spiritual guidance books. I have been following various teachers, listening to podcasts, u-tube videos. Eckhart Tolle, Byron Katie, Nouk Sanchez, John Mark Stroud. The Way of Mastery, Rupert Spira, Mooji, A Course In Miracles (this list is not exhaustive, but you get the idea I'm sure). I have belonged to a one year program in Vancouver to support emotional healing and awakening. I meditate, albiet sporadically, and think about it A LOT.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

User avatar
Vivien
Posts: 2795
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:07 am
Location: Australia

Re: What is my experience trying to show me? Seeking what I REALLY am in Truth.

Postby Vivien » Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:43 am

Hi,

My name is Vivien, and I am happy to assist in exploring 'no-self' and other related topics.

At LU we are described as guides - not teachers - as our role is to directly point to what IS, through the use of exercises and questions. Your role is to LOOK carefully to what is being pointed at. It is this simple LOOKING (not thinking) that brings the realisation that there is no separate self and never has been. This is an experiential based guiding and is not a discussion or a debate.

This is YOUR inquiry. I will not be giving you new ideas and beliefs; only assisting you in examining and questioning the ones that you already have.

Before we begin, here are links to information I would like you to read please.
Disclaimer:-
http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Terms & Conditions:
https://www.liberationunleashed.com/register/terms/

“Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU.
http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

A few ground rules:
1. Post at least once a day, if you cannot post, or need more time, please let me know.
2. Be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.
3. This exploration is based on Actual (or Direct) Experience (AE or DE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and thoughts - only. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.
4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.
5. Understand that I will be guiding you, rather than teaching you, and the more you put into this process the more you will get out of it.

A few technical support:

- You can reply to this thread by pushing the 'Post Reply" button at the left bottom of this page.
- You can learn to use the quote function, instructions are located in the link below this line:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run.


If you are happy to agree to the above and have me your guide, we can start the process.
To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration (for example, what life will look and feel like and what you want/hope will change or not change). Could you please answer the following questions:

How will Life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?


Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer ALL questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer questions INDIVIDUALLY, remembering to use the Quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

User avatar
GFree
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:53 am

Re: What is my experience trying to show me? Seeking what I REALLY am in Truth.

Postby GFree » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:20 pm

It is lovely to meet you Vivien! Thank you so much for being my guide in this process. I am so very excited and terrified to begin.

I will try to answer daily, as requested. Some days, however, I work a 12 hour shift, likely a few in a row, and will probably not be answering. I need really take time to pay attention to look. I'll let you know if this is happening in advance.

Is that okay with you?

Here are my answers for today:

How will life change?

Truthfully, I have absolutely no idea how my life will change. When I check inside, what I find is a blank …… nothingness ….. silence.

When I look to my mind - OMG - what I hear is so many fears. I will lose my friends, my job perhaps. I will no longer be able to function. I will piss off my kids, will become holier than though. That I will no longer be able to manage my life because I will be like a robot - stunned. I won't care how I dress or look anymore and will look like an old lady. There is no end to this deep well of thoughts and fears. Should I question every one, I wonder, or brush them aside and proceed.

How will I change?

Hmm …. I find this a very confusing question because I feel a little confused as to who I am. Again, I do not really know. I'm hoping that I have a greater connection to what I feel at times - a compassion and love that wells up from within and tells me that I am that, or that that is me.

How will it be different?

This is a question that my thoughts would love to answer. I will have a "knowing" of who I am, and, although my life will be the same, I will look at it differently. Also, I would like to think that I would be better equipped to navigate my life without so many sticking points - my relationships, finances. I see that I have so many expectations and judgements about people, my family - who am I exactly? I notice that I expect certain things from my family, friends and partner. Well - everyone, to be honest. I look at objects, people, strangers with an overlay of judgement and beliefs. It is SO burdensome! And yet so scary to really look.

What is missing?

I don't know. Missing right now? Nothing, truthfully. But I feel like I'm being pulled by a tractor beam to this. I have been searching, searching most of my life. Sometimes my life feels really great, and I stop searching, but there is always this deep pull. When first looked into this "presence" that I found was within me, I was deeply disappointed that the romance of God, lights, possible visions - that sort of thing - was probably not accurate. But still, this presence within me is there whenever I look. It is so loving and kind.

User avatar
Vivien
Posts: 2795
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:07 am
Location: Australia

Re: What is my experience trying to show me? Seeking what I REALLY am in Truth.

Postby Vivien » Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:10 am

Hi Gwen,

Can you I call Gwen, or would you prefer some other name?
Thank you so much for being my guide in this process. I am so very excited and terrified to begin.
You are welcome :)

First, I would like to ask you to learn using the quote function, since I will ask lots of questions, and without quotation your replies will be hard to read. Here is the link again how to quote:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660
I will try to answer daily, as requested. Some days, however, I work a 12 hour shift, likely a few in a row, and will probably not be answering. I need really take time to pay attention to look. I'll let you know if this is happening in advance. Is that okay with you?
Yes, of course. Just please let me know when this happens.

Thank you for getting through these questions about expectations. It’s important, because every expectation is in a way of seeing what is here, right now. Every expectation is a ‘hindrance’ in realizing what IS. Expectations results in comparison. Comparison between what is happening, and the imagined expectation. Thus what has been seen can be thrown out or ignored, since it doesn’t match the expected outcome.

I go through all the expectations one-by-one. While you read them, please pay attention to what arises ‘in the body’. Is there any resistance to any of it?
When I look to my mind - OMG - what I hear is so many fears. I will lose my friends, my job perhaps. I will no longer be able to function. I will piss off my kids, will become holier than though. That I will no longer be able to manage my life because I will be like a robot - stunned. I won't care how I dress or look anymore and will look like an old lady. There is no end to this deep well of thoughts and fears. Should I question every one, I wonder, or brush them aside and proceed.
Ohh… thoughts can create all sorts of stories and fantasies! But I can assure you NONE of these are true.

Seeing through the self has NOTHING TO DO with losing your friends or your job or pissing off your kids.

The self is ALREADY not there! Why would change anything by the seeing that there is ALREADY no self, and has never been?

How could you become a robot if there is ALREADY no self there?
If seeing no self meant becoming a robot, then you MUST ALREADY BE A ROBOT! Since the self is ALREADY not there! Can you see this the falsity of your logic?

Your dressing style will be completely unaffected by seeing through the self. Why would that change?
I am so very excited and terrified to begin.
Is there anything else that you are terrified of in regards of seeing through the self?
I find this a very confusing question because I feel a little confused as to who I am. Again, I do not really know.
Of course you are confused who you are! :) You are trying to accomplish an impossible task.
A non-existent self is trying to define itself and figure out what it is.
You cannot figure out what you are, since there is NO YOU that could be this or that.
So this whole struggle to figure out who I am can fall away completely. Isn’t that marvelous? :)
I'm hoping that I have a greater connection to what I feel at times - a compassion and love that wells up from within and tells me that I am that, or that that is me.
There is NO YOU that could be in connection with anything.
This you is an illusion!


Compassion, love, happiness or peace are states, and no states are permanent, they are all subject to change. Seeing through the separate individual is not about not having any ‘bad’ or uncomfortable feelings any more. Rather it’s about encompassing all emotions, accepting WHATEVER is arising in this moment (even the so called negative emotions).

Many seekers believe that seeing through the separate individual is a completely different state that they are currently having, with some special qualities (compassion, love, happiness, bliss, constant peace or whatever). However, this is not the case. Seeing through the illusion that there is a separate entity (self) is not a state. When it is SEEN it, the knowledge becomes factual. Many seekers have the impression that seeing there is no self is a state to ‘abide in’. It's not.
This is a question that my thoughts would love to answer. I will have a "knowing" of who I am, and, although my life will be the same, I will look at it differently.
What can be discovered is NOT who you are, but rather that there is NO YOU that could be this or that. What a relief! :)
Also, I would like to think that I would be better equipped to navigate my life without so many sticking points - my relationships, finances.

Just because the self is seen through it doesn’t mean that your relationships will change, especially your finances.
Seeing through the self is NOT about outside circumstances, like finances. It’s simply about seeing that there is no self, no me in any shape or form that would own or govern life. There is nothing that life is happening to.
I see that I have so many expectations and judgements about people, my family - who am I exactly? I notice that I expect certain things from my family, friends and partner. Well - everyone, to be honest. I look at objects, people, strangers with an overlay of judgement and beliefs. It is SO burdensome!
Having expectations and judgements about others is a human condition. All humans share it. Just because the self is seen through, it doesn’t mean that these expectations and judgements will fall away. Seeing through the self is just the beginning, just the first step and not the end.

The more important thing is that you also have lots of unrealistic expectations and judgements about awakening, seeing through the self. And these are expectations and judgements are not in line how it actually is.

Perception changes and with that some reactions etc. may change. The core belief of being a separate self is seen through which also includes others beliefs that support this idea. However, like a rug that is beginning to unravel, there are still many knots (beliefs, patterns) that need undoing. Falling away of conditionings can last at the end of the organism. Continuing to LOOK after the realisation is very much the key. LU only guides to the realisation of ‘no separate self’.

Suffering happens when being lost in thoughts happens. It means that the thoughts in that moment are not seen only as arising thoughts (only as ‘containers’ coming and going), but rather their ‘content’, what they are about is taken as reality. And of course, since each thought is about the self, the self is taken as something real. And this, let’s call ‘delusion’ still can happen even after seeing the illusion of the self. But when it’s investigated, it can be seen for what it is. But there is no guaranty that in the next moment the story of a self won’t reassert itself. It’s a habit of the mind. It’s a conditioned pattern of thinking. It’s the result of a life-long conditioning. But upon each looking it gets a little bit weaker and weaker.

Also, personality problems, traumas, emotional pains don’t dissolve just because of seeing no self. So all the conditioned reactions that stem from them still can arise. However, if someone decides to work on these, it’s usually much easier after seeing no-self.
And yet so scary to really look.
What is scary about looking?
When first looked into this "presence" that I found was within me, I was deeply disappointed that the romance of God, lights, possible visions - that sort of thing - was probably not accurate. But still, this presence within me is there whenever I look. It is so loving and kind.
Dear Gwen, I understand your disappointment, but I have to tell you that you are about to have another disappointment, this time about this presence.
I have been following various teachers, listening to podcasts, u-tube videos. Eckhart Tolle, Byron Katie, Nouk Sanchez, John Mark Stroud. The Way of Mastery, Rupert Spira, Mooji, A Course In Miracles (this list is not exhaustive, but you get the idea I'm sure). I have belonged to a one year program in Vancouver to support emotional healing and awakening.
You have lots of learned knowledge about awakening, which can distorts direct looking if there is a clinging to those concepts and beliefs. For the time our investigation, I would like to ask you to stop reading/listening any teachers, and rather spend your time looking. Also, I would like to ask you to put aside all learned knowledge. You have to see this experientially and not relying on others’ experiences. Can we agree on these?

Before starting, please read my above comments a few more times and tell me what comes up by reading the comments about the expectations.
Is there any resistance to any of it?


Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

User avatar
GFree
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:53 am

Re: What is my experience trying to show me? Seeking what I REALLY am in Truth.

Postby GFree » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:26 pm

Can you I call Gwen, or would you prefer some other name?
You may call me Gwen

I
s there anything else that you are terrified of in regards of seeing through the self?
There are two ways that I may answer this question. If I ask my mind/ego this question, it will generate endless reasons, all untrue, of why it would be a bad idea to see through the small self. I know this about my ego/small self. This is it's story. I am also aware (and I am using the word "I" to reply to the question that you have asked as a "you") of an indefinable place/space/part of ???me that is present and has no fear. In other words, I am aware of not having fear surrounding seeing through the small self. I hope this is not too confusing for you.

User avatar
GFree
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:53 am

Re: What is my experience trying to show me? Seeking what I REALLY am in Truth.

Postby GFree » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:34 pm

What is scary about looking?
Hahaha! There is nothing scary about looking really.

I guess that it was a passing feeling. I'm doing my best to be honest and describe what is happening. At this moment, it struck me as funny when I read my reply from yesterday.

User avatar
GFree
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:53 am

Re: What is my experience trying to show me? Seeking what I REALLY am in Truth.

Postby GFree » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:37 pm

I would like to ask you to stop reading/listening any teachers, and rather spend your time looking. Also, I would like to ask you to put aside all learned knowledge. You have to see this experientially and not relying on others’ experiences. Can we agree on these?
I have an appointment with a cranial saccral massage therapist on the 24th. I don't imagine that this falls under the above catagory. Otherwise, yes.

User avatar
GFree
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:53 am

Re: What is my experience trying to show me? Seeking what I REALLY am in Truth.

Postby GFree » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:48 pm

Before starting, please read my above comments a few more times and tell me what comes up by reading the comments about the expectations.
Is there any resistance to any of it?
Yes, I felt resistance to some of your answers. I noticed that you did not reply to my answer "truthfully, I have no idea of now my life will change", and addressed some of the noise that my mind is generating in this process.

I decided that "I" am looking for guidance and really want to LOOK, and, if "I" could have figured this out on my own, and how to do it, "I' would have understood that there is no Gwen already. So I have reread your replies and am still turning them over in my mind. I will follow your directions. It's kind of counterintuitive because I need to use my mind to see that it's logic is flawed. Thank you.

User avatar
Vivien
Posts: 2795
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:07 am
Location: Australia

Re: What is my experience trying to show me? Seeking what I REALLY am in Truth.

Postby Vivien » Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:52 am

Hi Gwen,
First, I would like to ask you to reply to all my questions in one post, and not in several separate ones. I will ask you lots of questions in the future, and it will be really hard for both of us the read your comments if you post them separately. So you have to press the ‘Submit’ button only at the end, when you replied to all. You can also, press ‘Preview’ before submit, so you can have a look how your reply will look like and make adjustments if you need to before submitting.
There are two ways that I may answer this question. If I ask my mind/ego this question, it will generate endless reasons, all untrue, of why it would be a bad idea to see through the small self. I know this about my ego/small self. This is it's story. I am also aware (and I am using the word "I" to reply to the question that you have asked as a "you") of an indefinable place/space/part of ???me that is present and has no fear. In other words, I am aware of not having fear surrounding seeing through the small self. I hope this is not too confusing for you.
Yes, I get what you mean. That’s good that not all of your thoughts about fear :)

However, I have to comment on something here, since there is a misunderstanding, a belief in your reply.

Your above comment ASSUMES that there are 2 selves, one is the separate self (small self/ego), and the other is the real, true Self (with capital S). So when the separate self has seen through, only the true Self remains, what I really am.

But this cannot be further from the truth. There are NO 2 selves there. There is no real Self what could remain after seeing through the separate self. The notion of the true/real Self is just a desire on behalf of the separate self. There is no amount of selves. Not 2 (self + Self), not 1 (Self), but zero (no self at all).

When the self has seen through, there will be NOTHING left to identify with and say: “this is what I really am”.
The Self (with capital S) is the SAME illusion in disguise as the ‘small self’.
Hahaha! There is nothing scary about looking really.
I guess that it was a passing feeling. I'm doing my best to be honest and describe what is happening. At this moment, it struck me as funny when I read my reply from yesterday.
Good :)
I have an appointment with a cranial saccral massage therapist on the 24th. I don't imagine that this falls under the above catagory. Otherwise, yes.
Yes, this is not a problem. Only those things that are about the topic of awakening.
Yes, I felt resistance to some of your answers. I noticed that you did not reply to my answer "truthfully, I have no idea of now my life will change", and addressed some of the noise that my mind is generating in this process.
Yes. I read your comments that you have no idea how your life will change, and I didn’t reply to it since my job at this stage is to help you to see through all form of expectations, both positive and negative ones which comes in the form of fears. So I addressed those.
I decided that "I" am looking for guidance and really want to LOOK, and, if "I" could have figured this out on my own, and how to do it, "I' would have understood that there is no Gwen already. So I have reread your replies and am still turning them over in my mind. I will follow your directions.
All right :)
It's kind of counterintuitive because I need to use my mind to see that it's logic is flawed.
So far, we just had a simple conversation, so yes, we used thoughts for this. But you will see, that we will put aside all thoughts, and we will look at experience directly, regardless what thoughts have to say about any matter.

Let’s start it. As stated in my first post, my role is to directly point to what IS, through the use of exercises and questions. Your role is to LOOK carefully to what is being pointed at. It is this simple LOOKING (not thinking) that brings the realisation that there is no separate self and never has been.

Okay, now we become aware of actual experience (AE) and what LOOKING is.

‘Looking’ is just plain looking at actual/direct experience (AE), which is simply colour (image), sound, smell, sensation, taste and the simple knowing of thought at face value that is appearing right now in the moment. You are looking at the raw experience of AE and noticing the labels and thoughts ABOUT the raw experience.
The key to this exploration is the careful LOOKING. Why? Because it’s the act of actually LOOKING and not finding an “I” that brings about the realisation of there being no separate self and that there has never been a separate self.

The interpretation of actual experience happens quickly. So while inquiring, labelling and thought interpretation will always appear, but it is possible to become aware of the thoughts that appear with and overlay actual experience. Another key component of this exploration is being able to tell the difference between actual experience and the interpretation by thought of actual experience.

Here's an exercise that will help you to see what we mean exactly by direct experience. I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of that the thought interpretation or narration is not always in line with the actual experience. Most of the time it isn’t.

So when having breakfast thoughts might narrate the experience like this:

“Here is my cup, I’ve been looking for it everywhere. Ohh.. this coffee smells so good! This is hot! I have to be careful not to burn myself. I like the taste of it, I like this better than the one I bought last time. Oh, my ears are so sensitive to the sounds in the mornings, I wish I could stir the coffee silently. I rather go and sit over the couch and enjoy my coffee. I like this morning routine, it’s so peaceful.”

So this is how thoughts narrate the experience. But what is ACTUALLY going on? What is the actual experience?

There is only:

Seeing a cup = visual sight
Smelling coffee = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup = sensation
Tasting the coffee = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee = thought

Can you see how much addition is there with the thought narration?
Can you see that the pure experience is much simpler than thoughts suggest so?


So I wold like to ask you to observe how much thoughts add to the actual experience.
And then break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual/direct experience) and let me know how you go.

Please write me a list as above for one period of doing this exercise. Don’t forget to add the corresponding labels as shown above.


Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

User avatar
GFree
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:53 am

Re: What is my experience trying to show me? Seeking what I REALLY am in Truth.

Postby GFree » Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:08 am

So I would like to ask you to observe how much thoughts add to the actual experience. 
And then break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual/direct experience) and let me know how you go. 

Please write me a list as above for one period of doing this exercise. Don’t forget to add the corresponding labels as shown above.
I am finding this a difficult exercise to do. I observed that there is a multitude of thoughts that add to my experience. Defining objects and their use, describing colours, noticing that my thoughts bounce from object to other things, a task that should be done, a memory. Past - future.

I started while in bed last night, attempting to take information as if I were a baby and didn't know what anything was or what it is for. There was little light in the room, so colours were subdued:

Seeing light on the ceiling: light, dark.
Sensations of the mattress and sheets, pillow: sensations
The feeling of a fan moving air on my face: soft sensation
Hearing the fan: sound
Hearing my partner snore: sound
Thoughts about doing this exercise right: thoughts
Thoughts about snoring: thoughts


Eating breakfast:

Seeing my arm: seeing
Seeing the room: seeing
Feeling the knife in my hand: both seeing and sensation
Tasting the toast: taste and sensation
Feeling the coffee mug: sensation
Tasting the coffee: taste and feeling both - feeling the mug
Noticing so many thoughts about this process.


My response has been delayed as we had an extremely busy weekend with company.

User avatar
Vivien
Posts: 2795
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:07 am
Location: Australia

Re: What is my experience trying to show me? Seeking what I REALLY am in Truth.

Postby Vivien » Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:53 am

Hi Gwen,
I observed that there is a multitude of thoughts that add to my experience. Defining objects and their use, describing colours, noticing that my thoughts bounce from object to other things, a task that should be done, a memory. Past - future.
Nice observations. You did a great looking.

I gave you the actual experience exercise to help you to differentiate between what is actually happening and what THOUGHTS ARE ABOUT what is happening.

Now we start investigating thoughts.
This exercise has a dual purpose. Firstly, to become aware of each and every though as they appear. Secondly, the careful looking for the gap is an example of how carefully to look when looking for the ‘separate self’.

Here is a step-by-step description of how to look at thoughts. First thing is to sit for at least 5-10 minutes quietly somewhere, several times throughout your day. Close your eyes and just notice thoughts. Don’t engage with any thought, just notice them.

1. Notice the current thought that is present.
Like when you sit observing the body, a thought might arise “this is my feet” or “here is a pain” or “my breathing is too quick” or “I am bored with this exercise” or “I have better things to do” or any sorts of thoughts.
2. This thought will pass and another thought will come. So just observe this thought passing.
3. Then wait for the next thought to come.
4. When the next thought is present, just notice it, and see how it passes.
5. Then wait for the next thought to come.

Between the 2 thoughts there is a gap. It can be very short or subtle, just a second or a few seconds before the next thought come in.

This is how to look at thoughts:
Looking how they come and go, and
Observing the short gap between them.
Noticing how the current thought is passing.
And waiting for the next thought to come.

Throughout your waking day, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts.

Let me know how it goes.

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

User avatar
GFree
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:53 am

Re: What is my experience trying to show me? Seeking what I REALLY am in Truth.

Postby GFree » Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:27 am

1. Notice the current thought that is present.
Like when you sit observing the body, a thought might arise “this is my feet” or “here is a pain” or “my breathing is too quick” or “I am bored with this exercise” or “I have better things to do” or any sorts of thoughts.
2. This thought will pass and another thought will come. So just observe this thought passing.
3. Then wait for the next thought to come.
4. When the next thought is present, just notice it, and see how it passes.
5. Then wait for the next thought to come.




Throughout your waking day, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts.

Vivien -

Thank you for your ongoing support and direction.

We have company visiting at this week, so it has been hard to find quiet moments for this practice.


I have found it difficult to determine whether or not I was successful at finding the gap between thoughts.

I noticed a constant narration of both what was going on as well as a steady stream "helpful hints" from my thoughts. "Now I'm getting quiet, oh - I think that there was a gap there - was that a gap? Don't resist your thoughts, that's not the exercise"

At one point in one exercise, I had a surprising, but brief thought that "I" was nowhere in my thoughts, that the content of my thought was building a self where there was none. It was like a quick flash of realization that was followed by a tightening in the chest, or something akin to a hiccough, and then it felt like the knowing was gone. It only happened the once. It makes sense to me now, intellectually, but at that time I actually saw it.

At other times, it felt like there were longer gaps, but they were interrupted by thought, just checking to see if it was really silent.




User avatar
Vivien
Posts: 2795
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:07 am
Location: Australia

Re: What is my experience trying to show me? Seeking what I REALLY am in Truth.

Postby Vivien » Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:36 am

Hi Gwen,
At one point in one exercise, I had a surprising, but brief thought that "I" was nowhere in my thoughts, that the content of my thought was building a self where there was none.
Very good. This is what we are going to investigate from every possible angle.

Looking for gaps between thoughts were a preparation exercise to help you how to observe the coming and going of thoughts and also how to look for the self later.

The whole illusion is mainly created by thoughts. So therefore, we will investigate thoughts and thought labels thoroughly.
So then let’s have a deeper look on thoughts. Sit for about 15 minutes or longer and look similarly as you looked for the gaps between thoughts. Look for the ‘answer’ BEFORE thought interpretation kicks in.

Where do thoughts come from?
Where are they going?
Can ‘you’ stop a thought in the middle?
Can ‘you’ predict what will be the next thought?
Can 'you' choose not to have painful or negative thoughts?

Can an 'I' be found that generates thoughts?
“I think” - What is 'I'? What is the one that thinks?
What is the thinker of thoughts? – don’t think, rather look for a ‘thinker’
Does the thinker of the thought appear in experience? Can it be found?
Or could it be that the 'I' that thinks is also just a thought?
Do you think thoughts or you are just ‘being thought’?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing? Including the thought 'I'?


Please go through these questions and answer and quote ALL of them one-by-one. Don’t miss any. Try to answer them only from direct experience, and leave aside all intellectual interpretation or understanding. Please, DON’T THINK about the answers, rather LOOK at what is before thoughts. Take your time.

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

User avatar
GFree
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:53 am

Re: What is my experience trying to show me? Seeking what I REALLY am in Truth.

Postby GFree » Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:37 am

Vivien -

I am working and want to take a good amount of time to really think through the last questions. I will answer on Friday...

Gwen

User avatar
Vivien
Posts: 2795
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:07 am
Location: Australia

Re: What is my experience trying to show me? Seeking what I REALLY am in Truth.

Postby Vivien » Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:06 am

Hi Gwen,

Thank you for letting me know.
to really think through the last questions.

Please DON'T THINK about this at all. Rather LOOK at experience directly BEFORE thought interpretation.

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/


Return to “THE GATE”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest