No comment, no conclusion

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adilerten
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Re: No comment, no conclusion

Postby adilerten » Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:18 am

On your time there out in the nature,

See how clouds move, trees swing, leaves wiggle, grass moves, insects, birds - all move all the time.

Then move focus to sensations and see how they too are in constant motion, thoughts come and go, sounds, colours, sensations come and go.

Notice that everything is part of one movement.

Then close your eyes and see if there s a line between you and out there, between you and life itself.
If yes, ask your self always where is the boundary?
Ask your self Is there an inside and an outside of Life?
Is there something which is not included in the movement of the whole?
Is there really a witness that is watching life happening from a distance?
Or is witnessing part of the one movement too?
Is there anything which is not just happening?


Take these questions as notes and look for them there ok ?

This was our first exercise...

Now 2'nd..
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Re: No comment, no conclusion

Postby adilerten » Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:25 am

When you watch a sunset, there are two things going on:
1. The actual experience of "Seeing"
2. The commentary about what is being seen "I am watching a sunset", "How beautiful", "Look at the colours, the depth..." etc etc
When you listen to sounds, there are two things going on:
1. The actual experience of "hearing"
2. The commentary about what is being heard "Truck" "I wonder where that aeroplane is going" " Wow, the birds sound so happy today" etc etc
So what is happening is, in all the (1.'s) above there is direct experience. When you have done the exercises relating to this previously you said that you could not find an "anna" here, just the experience (the seeing, feeling, hearing).
all the (2.'s) above, there is commentary about what is being experienced - about an object being seen, heard, felt. For instance a "sunset" being seen by an "I", a "truck" being heard by an "I"
n all the (1.'s) there is no "I". In all the (2.'s) an "I" appears. In the (2.s) there is a "someone" and a "something".
summary is: 1. There is an image - shapes/colours. This is direct seeing.
2. There is labelling that happens AFTER all the seeing is done. By this time the image has been "processed" and now we have "objects" labelled from the initial image.

While you are there when you look at a landscape, a room, an object..
Always try to see color as color..
Let's say you look at the sky..Watch like a hawk how mind(thought) labels color and seperates as:
blue+yellow+white as "this is sky.."this is sun..these are clouds"
Try to see that it is a whole "what is.." and thought separates and labels the experience.
Try to ignore thought stories and see all movement as one..
Try to stay with the actual experience(s) instead of thought story..

Thank you.

Enjoy, play with these. :)
I am sure you will be bringing lots of realization with you..
Sending much love.
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Sara
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Re: No comment, no conclusion

Postby Sara » Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:13 am

Thank you for sending me those exercises. I will reply to you on my return Sat 3 August.

And also thank you for your help with this.

Love Sara.

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adilerten
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Re: No comment, no conclusion

Postby adilerten » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:16 am

Thank you for sending me those exercises. I will reply to you on my return Sat 3 August.

And also thank you for your help with this.

Love Sara.
waiting to hear from you
enjoy.
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: No comment, no conclusion

Postby adilerten » Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:55 am

How was it Sara :)
What has changed ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Sara
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Re: No comment, no conclusion

Postby Sara » Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:02 am

Dear Adil,

The retreat was very useful but I still feel that I have a reflective acceptance rather than a direct insight.
CLOSE YOUR EYES AND SEE IF THERE IS A LINE BETWEEN YOU AND OUT THERE, BETWEEN YOU AND LIFE ITSELF
No line, just the dance of life - had a sense of "one with everything" (part of one movement).
WATCH LIKE A HAWK HOW MIND LABELS COLOUR AND SEPARATES...
Labelling happens so quickly - I try to keep returning to shapes and colour but not always successfully.

Thank you Adil. I look forward to continuing this journey.

Love Sara.

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adilerten
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Re: No comment, no conclusion

Postby adilerten » Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:18 am

Dear Adil,

The retreat was very useful but I still feel that I have a reflective acceptance rather than a direct insight.
CLOSE YOUR EYES AND SEE IF THERE IS A LINE BETWEEN YOU AND OUT THERE, BETWEEN YOU AND LIFE ITSELF
No line, just the dance of life - had a sense of "one with everything" (part of one movement).
WATCH LIKE A HAWK HOW MIND LABELS COLOUR AND SEPARATES...
Labelling happens so quickly - I try to keep returning to shapes and colour but not always successfully.

Thank you Adil. I look forward to continuing this journey.

Love Sara.
Welcome back Sara.
The retreat was very useful but I still feel that I have a reflective acceptance rather than a direct insight.
That's ok..There is no one to choose thoughts. As you saw they just pop in from no where in its own agenda.
We have all the (inexistent) time in the world to make you see directly.

Ok Let's go on..
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: No comment, no conclusion

Postby adilerten » Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:25 am

First let's look to this idea of decision and control,
Can you please do this simple exercise and report what comes

1. Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down. 2. When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand in the air but not the other.

Don't go to thoughts, examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:-

What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?
Why that hand but not the other ?
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?
What is it that is controlling the hand?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
Can anything be found that makes the hand move?
How is the decision made?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Sara
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Re: No comment, no conclusion

Postby Sara » Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:05 am

1 - What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?
2 - Why that hand but not the other ?
3 - Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?
4 - What is it that is controlling the hand?
5- Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
6 - Can anything be found that makes the hand move?
7 - How is the decision made?
1.What a weird feeling this generates! It just seems to happen of its own volition with nothing/no-one doing the choosing that I can detect.
2. I don't know! It seems random.
3. No. It just occurs.
4. I was going to say that I guess a thought occurs but it's almost like the hand moves before the thought. I don't know which hand will move until it happens so how can thinking make it happen?
5. No.
6. No.
7. I don't know! It just happens!

That was a very interesting exercise. Thank you, love Sara.

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adilerten
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Re: No comment, no conclusion

Postby adilerten » Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:59 am

Dear Adil

Just to let you know that it may be tomorrow before I reply to you as I have a long drive today (which is going to take all day). I will practice as you have suggested and get back to you.

Love Sara
Thank you for letting me know Sara...

See you later.
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Sara
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Re: No comment, no conclusion

Postby Sara » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:33 am

Dear Adil,

The post I received from you yesterday was an old message from some weeks ago.

Love Sara.

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adilerten
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Re: No comment, no conclusion

Postby adilerten » Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:37 am

Dear Adil,

The post I received from you yesterday was an old message from some weeks ago.

Love Sara.
Wow!
Somehow we had a technical issue then.
Thank you for letting me know Sara..

LEt's go on..
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: No comment, no conclusion

Postby adilerten » Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:40 am

1 - What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?
2 - Why that hand but not the other ?
3 - Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?
4 - What is it that is controlling the hand?
5- Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
6 - Can anything be found that makes the hand move?
7 - How is the decision made?
1.What a weird feeling this generates! It just seems to happen of its own volition with nothing/no-one doing the choosing that I can detect.
2. I don't know! It seems random.
3. No. It just occurs.
4. I was going to say that I guess a thought occurs but it's almost like the hand moves before the thought. I don't know which hand will move until it happens so how can thinking make it happen?
5. No.
6. No.
7. I don't know! It just happens!

That was a very interesting exercise. Thank you, love Sara.
Thanks for making this exercise Sara.
I see that you get what i would like from you to get from this..

So as you see decision happens and thought labels..Because of this because of that..

let'S play a "because" game shall we ? :)
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
Posts: 1289
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: No comment, no conclusion

Postby adilerten » Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:46 am

For 1 day,
Become aware of when the word 'BECAUSE' shows up in thoughts. The word 'because' points to a reason why something is happening, and further points to a ‘me’ that this something is happening to!

By becoming aware of ‘because’ you can start to break the cycle of believing that emotions are happening to a you and that you are somehow in control of what reactions and/or emotions appear.

For example, let’s say frustration has appeared, and the thought arises saying "I am frustrated BECAUSE the traffic is grid locked and I have been sitting here for ages and I just want to get home". Don't just go along with that. STOP and LOOK. Can 'frustration' actually be found and known, and can an "I” actually be found and known that is actually ‘frustrated’

What generally happens is that there is an ownership of the frustration, BECAUSE of………...(fill in the blank), and this is what seems to evoke the idea that there is an “I” that is suffering due to being frustrated with something called traffic conditions!

So is the ‘frustration’ an actual problem?
Is the idea of an “I who is frustrated” an actual problem and is the idea of being “stuck in traffic” an actual problem?
Or is it the thoughts about a “me who is frustrated about traffic” that seems to create problems? It is the idea that “frustration” and “I” shouldn’t appear that makes it a problem. There is nothing wrong with concepts…it is only a problem when concepts are believed.

So it seems like a person is frustrated due to being stuck in traffic. Here is a partial list of the beliefs involved with this idea and need to be looked at.

1) there is traffic

2) that the traffic is causing frustration

3) that there is a ‘me’ here and traffic ‘out there’

3) you (a person) is frustrated

4) and that the frustration is felt in something called a body

If you STOP and LOOK, you will notice that all that is appearing is the actual experience as sensation.
Everything else is just story – the traffic, cause, effect, separation, frustration and a body. There is just sensation appearing in the dream and a fairytale story to go along with it.

So with this in mind, so to speak, is there a problem with the sensation?
Does the sensation need to change or leave?
Does the story about being frustrated due to traffic condition need to change or leave or never appear again?

So…try this out for one day…. focus on BECAUSES and see how you get on.

Look out for:-

I am guilty because
I am tired because
I am hungry because
I am ashamed because
I am happy because
I am smart because
I am angry because
I am afraid because
I am stupid because
I need to pee because
I am annoyed because
I am sick because
I am irritated because
I am frustrated because
I am disappointed because...

and tell me how you go ok ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

User avatar
Sara
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:30 am

Re: No comment, no conclusion

Postby Sara » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:39 am

For 1 day,
Become aware of when the word 'BECAUSE' shows up in thoughts. The word 'because' points to a reason why something is happening, and further points to a ‘me’ that this something is happening to!

By becoming aware of ‘because’ you can start to break the cycle of believing that emotions are happening to a you and that you are somehow in control of what reactions and/or emotions appear.

For example, let’s say frustration has appeared, and the thought arises saying "I am frustrated BECAUSE the traffic is grid locked and I have been sitting here for ages and I just want to get home". Don't just go along with that. STOP and LOOK. Can 'frustration' actually be found and known, and can an "I” actually be found and known that is actually ‘frustrated’

What generally happens is that there is an ownership of the frustration, BECAUSE of………...(fill in the blank), and this is what seems to evoke the idea that there is an “I” that is suffering due to being frustrated with something called traffic conditions!

So is the ‘frustration’ an actual problem?
Is the idea of an “I who is frustrated” an actual problem and is the idea of being “stuck in traffic” an actual problem?
Or is it the thoughts about a “me who is frustrated about traffic” that seems to create problems? It is the idea that “frustration” and “I” shouldn’t appear that makes it a problem. There is nothing wrong with concepts…it is only a problem when concepts are believed.

So it seems like a person is frustrated due to being stuck in traffic. Here is a partial list of the beliefs involved with this idea and need to be looked at.

1) there is traffic

2) that the traffic is causing frustration

3) that there is a ‘me’ here and traffic ‘out there’

3) you (a person) is frustrated

4) and that the frustration is felt in something called a body

If you STOP and LOOK, you will notice that all that is appearing is the actual experience as sensation.
Everything else is just story – the traffic, cause, effect, separation, frustration and a body. There is just sensation appearing in the dream and a fairytale story to go along with it.

So with this in mind, so to speak, is there a problem with the sensation?
Does the sensation need to change or leave?
Does the story about being frustrated due to traffic condition need to change or leave or never appear again?

So…try this out for one day…. focus on BECAUSES and see how you get on.

Look out for:-

I am guilty because
I am tired because
I am hungry because
I am ashamed because
I am happy because
I am smart because
I am angry because
I am afraid because
I am stupid because
I need to pee because
I am annoyed because
I am sick because
I am irritated because
I am frustrated because
I am disappointed because...

and tell me how you go ok ?
This was helpful and timely because I was feeling angry/annoyed/irritated/frustrated/disappointed with someone this morning. The thoughts were "I am upset with K because of the following reasons (I had three!) i.e. because of something he did. I won't go into those reasons here. So now STOP AND LOOK - can upset actually be found or known? - I am experiencing sensations in my body and thoughts which I am labelling "upset" and I cannot find an "I" who is upset.

Prior to this there was ownership of the upset because of another person's actions. At that time I believed the thoughts and took them as "me".

Some of the beliefs
1. There is a person who should behave in a certain way (i.e. a way of which I approve)
2. That when he doesn't do that, he causes me upset
3. There is a me here and him out there
4. The upset is felt in something called a body

If you STOP and LOOK, you will notice that all that is appearing is the actual experience as sensation.
Everything else is just story – the traffic, cause, effect, separation, frustration and a body. There is just sensation appearing in the dream and a fairytale story to go along with it. YES - THIS IS TRUE!

So with this in mind, so to speak, is there a problem with the sensation?
Does the sensation need to change or leave?
Does the story about being frustrated due to traffic condition need to change or leave or never appear again?
The only problem with the sensation is that I can label it unpleasant which I recognise is just another thought. My direct experience is just sensations.
The sensation doesn't need to change or leave.
The story about being upset about K's actions has changed - but the idea of it needing to change/leave/never appear again is just another thought (I think!)

Adil - can I ask you a question - and I just want to assure you this is not about me - but what if someone were in an abusive relationship? My thoughts are that it is fine to see the fairytale story when it is to do with some minor upset but if what if it was a situation where someone was in danger of mental/physical harm?

Thank you Adil. I will look at the other "becauses" today as best I can.

Love Sara


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