Knowing

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taylor
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:15 am

Knowing

Postby taylor » Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:17 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand there is no doer no thinker nobody running the show
The “l “ is just a word

What are you looking for at LU?
I’m looking for a guide to help me see in actual experience that l am not what l think l am
I was watching some videos from Spacious awareness and just loved Lisa
I didn’t know what you offered even existed and became very excited when l realised l could actually join up !

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I have read a few guided conversations here at LU and l would love to have a guide
on my case to make me look deeply
Without a guide it can be too easy to distract myself and avoid doing the exercises of deep looking

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I did some basic Buddhist studies before children and yoga for the last three years which included some of Patanjalis sutras . I have been watching lots of non duality videos on utube and have discovered LU two months ago

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

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Verananda
Posts: 724
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:14 am

Re: Knowing

Postby Verananda » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:09 pm

Hi taylor,

welcome to Liberation Unleashed. Glad you made it here.
I am Ve and I can be your guide if that's okay with you.

Here are some arrangements we make to work together:
First I want to ask you to check out the Quote-Function. This will assist us in having a clear dialogue around the questions and answers. You can see here how it works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ

During our conversation I will ask you a series of questions. For each, you will look at your own Actual (or Direct) Experience (AE or DE) and answer with 100% honesty. Actual (or Direct) Experience (AE or DE) is smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and thoughts.

During this guiding, please avoid any other teachings, spiritual books, writings, YouTube videos or talks. If you have a meditation practice, feel free to continue with it as usual. It is best to avoid analyzing, speculation and debate. The mind will try to create distraction.

Please make an effort to write here every day or at least every second. This works best if we keep a constant focus on looking. If you are unable to do this on occasion, or you need more time for looking just let me know. I'll do the same for you.


Do you agree with this?

ok, so lets start:
I’m looking for a guide to help me see in actual experience that l am not what l think l am
What do you think that you are?


Love Ve

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taylor
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:15 am

Re: Knowing

Postby taylor » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:43 pm

Hello Ve
Thank you !
I only have an iPad so l might have to ask my daughter about the “quote” process
Unless there is another way
Thanks again .. lm looking forward to this

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Verananda
Posts: 724
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:14 am

Re: Knowing

Postby Verananda » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:51 pm

I guess it will also work on Ipad. Just try out!
Lokking forward .....

Love Anke

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Verananda
Posts: 724
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:14 am

Re: Knowing

Postby Verananda » Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:58 pm

did you see my first question:
I’m looking for a guide to help me see in actual experience that l am not what l think l am
What do you think that you are?

Love Ve

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taylor
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:15 am

Re: Knowing

Postby taylor » Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:55 am

did you see my first question:
I’m looking for a guide to help me see in actual experience that l am not what l think l am
What do you think that you are?

Love Ve


Hello Ve
i have been thinking all day to answer and i 'think 'i am still separate from everything but when looking there is no i to be found
Thank you, taylor x

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Verananda
Posts: 724
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:14 am

Re: Knowing

Postby Verananda » Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:01 am

i 'think 'i am still separate from everything but when looking there is no i to be found
:-)

well, isn't that exactly what you were looking for? ->
"I’m looking for a guide to help me see in actual experience that l am not what l think l am"

Can you find any kind of separation in direct experience?

what is missing?

Love Ve

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taylor
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:15 am

Re: Knowing

Postby taylor » Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:32 am

Can you find any kind of separation in direct experience ? what is missing ?
no I cant find any separation in direct experience...but as soon as the looking stops the thoughts run a story

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Verananda
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Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:14 am

Re: Knowing

Postby Verananda » Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:40 am

no I cant find any separation in direct experience...but as soon as the looking stops the thoughts run a story

what are these thought telling?
Can you see the difference between: "Seeing" thoughts (telling something) and beliefing the content of thought?
Can any thought be known as true?

Love Ve

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taylor
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:15 am

Re: Knowing

Postby taylor » Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:59 am

what are these thought telling?
they are saying it seems ludicrous that there is no I
Can you see the difference between: "Seeing" thoughts (telling something) and beliefing the content of thought?
yes there is a huge difference registering thoughts and then believing what they are saying


Can any thought be known as true?
the thoughts are real but not true because they vanish

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Verananda
Posts: 724
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:14 am

Re: Knowing

Postby Verananda » Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:25 pm

what is more reliable if you want to know if it is raining outside: Searching the internet about the weatherforecast or opening the curtains and looking out the window?

so what is more trustworthy: what you see in direct experience (no I found) or the content of thought (it is ludicrous that there is no I) ?
Can any thought be known as true?
the thoughts are real but not true because they vanish
yes, they vanish, as everything does. But what is about the content of thought? Can you know about any thought that its content is true for sure?

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taylor
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:15 am

Re: Knowing

Postby taylor » Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:48 pm

what is more reliable if you want to know if it is raining outside: Searching the internet about the weatherforecast or opening the curtains and looking out the window?
going outside and looking.

so what is more trustworthy: what you see in direct experience (no I found) or the content of thought (it is ludicrous that there is no I)
hehe thats funny.. of course what is seen in direct experience is trustworthy

yes, they vanish, as everything does. But what is about the content of thought? Can you know about any thought that its content is true for sure?
about the content of thought..there is an attraction to content from a lifelong habit
was thinking about thoughts that served a practical purpose but they no longer exist so they cannot be true
love taylor x

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Verananda
Posts: 724
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:14 am

Re: Knowing

Postby Verananda » Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:59 pm

hehe thats funny.. of course what is seen in direct experience is trustworthy
ok, so you see "no I foundin direct experience" and there is a thought "it is ludicrous that there is no I"
is there any problem with this thought?
do we need to get rid of them?
do we need to get rid of any thought?
about the content of thought..there is an attraction to content from a lifelong habit
to be attrackted to it doesn't make it true?
and "there is an attraction to content from a lifelong habit" would be just another thought, would't it?


... and please check out the quote function again, it makes it much more easy to read.
copy text (as you do) - mark text - click the "quote" button (4th from left)
thats it. you see the word "quote" in brakets at begin und end of text. After posting it it is seen quoted.
please try.

Love Ve

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taylor
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:15 am

Re: Knowing

Postby taylor » Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:19 pm

ok, so you see "no I foundin direct experience" and there is a thought "it is ludicrous that there is no I"
is there any problem with this thought?
the problem was it was believed....

do we need to get rid of them?
well if i look"do i need to get rid of them" then No because it is just another thought..it gets rid of itself

do we need to get rid of any thought?
hehe had never "thought" of that.. there is always resistance when a "problem" is constructed
so once again No! there is no problem these thoughts are not true
love taylorx

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Verananda
Posts: 724
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:14 am

Re: Knowing

Postby Verananda » Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:30 pm

the problem was it was believed....
so where is the problem now?
well if i look"do i need to get rid of them" then No because it is just another thought
:-)

lets do a short thought exercise:
Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear, without you doing anything at all.

Where are they coming from and going to?

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
Can you predict your next thought?

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?
Can you stop thinking a thought in the middle?

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence or something like a connection between two thoughts. Or is it just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that "one thought follows another thought"?

Please go through these questions and answer and quote ALL of them one-by-one. Don’t miss any. Try to answer them only from direct experience, and leave aside all intellectual interpretation or understanding. Please, DON’T THINK about the answers, rather LOOK at what is before thoughts. Take your time.


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