Help Me Please!!

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Brenda
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Help Me Please!!

Postby Brenda » Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:37 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand that life manifests on its own and we are only observers. We do not own anything, and we do not exist, we simply are the watcher of life expressing itself.

What are you looking for at LU?
I need guidance to be pushed through the gate, or realize there is no gate to reach, which ever comes first. I have been a seeker for many years, and very frustrated. I feel I am so close to realization, yet I am not realize. I am hoping a discussion with one who has already walked the path, will help me understand truth.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I do not like to set expectations, though I would like my thoughts or lack of thoughts to to be questioned to reach the realization that we do not exist. I expect my beliefs to be challenged and my walls to be broken down to see what IS.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have studied many modalities over the past 15 years. I study Native American spirituality, course of miracles, and many self help inquiry classes.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

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Vivien
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Re: Help Me Please!!

Postby Vivien » Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:51 pm

Hi,

My name is Vivien, and I am happy to assist in exploring 'no-self' and other related topics.

At LU we are described as guides - not teachers - as our role is to directly point to what IS, through the use of exercises and questions. Your role is to LOOK carefully to what is being pointed at. It is this simple LOOKING (not thinking) that brings the realisation that there is no separate self and never has been. This is an experiential based guiding and is not a discussion or a debate.

This is YOUR inquiry. I will not be giving you new ideas and beliefs; only assisting you in examining and questioning the ones that you already have.

Before we begin, here are links to information I would like you to read please.
Disclaimer:-
http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Terms & Conditions:
https://www.liberationunleashed.com/register/terms/

“Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU.
http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

A few ground rules:
1. Post at least once a day, if you cannot post, or need more time, please let me know.
2. Be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.
3. This exploration is based on Actual (or Direct) Experience (AE or DE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and thoughts - only. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.
4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.
5. Understand that I will be guiding you, rather than teaching you, and the more you put into this process the more you will get out of it.

A few technical support:

- You can reply to this thread by pushing the 'Post Reply" button at the left bottom of this page.
- You can learn to use the quote function, instructions are located in the link below this line:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run.


If you are happy to agree to the above and have me your guide, we can start the process.
To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration (for example, what life will look and feel like and what you want/hope will change or not change). Could you please answer the following questions:

How will Life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?


Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer ALL questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer questions INDIVIDUALLY, remembering to use the Quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Brenda
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Re: Help Me Please!!

Postby Brenda » Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:14 pm

Hello Vivian and thank you for replying.
I agree to the terms and look forward to working with you. My only concern is i do have a few days that i will be without internet, can we make arrangements for those days?

As a background, I woke up one day and realized my life was so well planned, i didn't even need to be part of it. My body would just go on through out her day, and everything would be perfect. So what was i doing here and who am I? Am i really needed. That sparked several years of unwinding all of the beliefs i have gathered over my life time. I see that I have came a long way, removed many obstacles, but yet i am missing something, I am missing truth, and I feel it is there i just cannot see it.

How will Life change?
i do not expect my life to change. I understand that life is expressing itself through me, and that the physicallness of life will still exist. I am okay with that. I basically enjoy my life today.
How will you change?
I am not exactly sure how I will change, but I assume my perception will change dramatically. I will see life clearer. The fog will be removed, and replaced with unconditional love.
Many are afraid to let go because they fear the unknown. I am good with this. I really really want to crash the gate.
What will be different?
Everything will be different and nothing will be different. I will see life in a new way, and detach from those things are keep me separated. I will experience life for what it truly is and not to get stuck in separation.
I really do not know how things will be different, but i want to know, i want to experience it,
What is missing?
I am missing truth. I am missing unconditional love. I am missing the understand of all that is. I know there is more to this. There has to be a bigger picture, a reason, an understanding.

- Brenda

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Vivien
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Location: Australia

Re: Help Me Please!!

Postby Vivien » Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:49 am

Hi Brenda,
My only concern is i do have a few days that i will be without internet, can we make arrangements for those days?
That’s all right. I got your message. If you want to send me a private message, you can do this through this forum too. But you can also write here on this thread.

I would like to ask you to learn to use the quotation function, since in I will be asking lots of questions soon, and without quotation your comments could be hard to read.
So here is the link again how to quote:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

Thank you for getting through these questions about expectations. It’s important, because every expectation is in a way of seeing what is here, right now. Every expectation is a ‘hindrance’ in realizing what IS. Expectations results in comparison. Comparison between what is happening, and the imagined expectation. Thus what has been seen can be thrown out or ignored, since it doesn’t match the expected outcome.

I go through all the expectations one-by-one. While you read them, please pay attention to what arises ‘in the body’. Is there any resistance to any of it?
I understand that life is expressing itself through me,
There is no you which life could express itself through.
I am not exactly sure how I will change, but I assume my perception will change dramatically. I will see life clearer. The fog will be removed, and replaced with unconditional love.
The perception of life MAY change, but not dramatically.

What will change is the experiential RECOGNITION that there is no self/you in any shape or form. And it has never been.

But, it’s not about unconditional love. Feeling of unconditional love is a state, and no states are permanent, they are all subject to change. Seeing through the separate individual is not about not having any ‘bad’ or uncomfortable feelings any more. Rather it’s about encompassing all emotions, accepting WHATEVER is arising in this moment (even the so called negative emotions).

Many seekers believe that seeing through the separate individual is a completely different state that they are currently having, with some special qualities (unconditional love, happiness, bliss, constant peace or whatever). However, this is not the case. Seeing through the illusion that there is a separate entity (self) is not a state. When it is SEEN it, the knowledge becomes factual. Many seekers have the impression that seeing there is no self is a state to ‘abide in’. It's not.
Many are afraid to let go because they fear the unknown. I am good with this. I really really want to crash the gate.
That’s very good.
Everything will be different and nothing will be different. I will see life in a new way, and detach from those things are keep me separated. I will experience life for what it truly is and not to get stuck in separation
There is NO you, who could see life in a new way.
The perception of life might changes or might not. But even if it changes, it won’t change as much as you would expect.

“I will detach from those things are keep me separate” – Please read this sentence a few times, and see the trick of thoughts.

This sentence assumes that there is an ‘I’ who could detach itself (meaning it can separate itself) from those things that keeps itself separate. This is an impossibility.

How could non-separation be recognized by separating (detaching) the ‘I’ from other things that are supposedly creating the separation?

There is nothing there that is separating the ‘I’ from something else.
There is no ‘I’ that could be separated from anything.
There is ALREADY no separation.
Separation is not something that can be achieved by you.
It can only be recognized that there is already no you that could be separate from everything else.
I understand that life manifests on its own and we are only observers
There is no we/you/I that as an observer.
The observer itself is the illusion of the self which needs to be seen through.
We do not own anything, and we do not exist, we simply are the watcher of life expressing itself.
There is no watcher. The watcher itself is an illusion.

Here are some common words used for the same illusion of the self:

awareness = consciousness = witness = experiencer = perceiver = knower = looker = noticer = watcher = feeler = seer = self = universal Self = true Self = I = me = myself = emptiness = nothingness = my real nature = field = field of experiencing = space = knowing space… and more

These are just the different words pointing to the same illusion.

To an imagined something that is the subject, that is the knowing or being aware or noticing or watching or seeing or feeling (etc) the objects (thoughts, sensations, images, etc).

For the time our investigation, I would like to ask you to stop reading/listening any teachers, and rather spend your time looking. Also, I would like to ask you to put aside all learned knowledge. You have to see this experientially and not relying on others’ experiences. Can we agree on these?

Before starting, please read my above comments a few more times and tell me what comes up by reading the comments about the expectations.
Is there any resistance to any of it?


Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Brenda
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Re: Help Me Please!!

Postby Brenda » Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:27 am

Hi Vivien,
Here it goes:
There is no you which life could express itself through.
I want to believe this but I am confused how to look at it. Life is happening around me but I am not part of it. It just is...
I need to lower my resistance to accept what is and nothing more? Just to be.


The perception of life MAY change, but not dramatically.
I do not feel resistance to this. I really have no idea how life will change when I awaken, and I am ok with that.

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Vivien
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Re: Help Me Please!!

Postby Vivien » Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:44 am

Hi Brenda,

Is it possible that wanted to send a longer reply, but somehow the bigger part of it was lost?

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Brenda
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Re: Help Me Please!!

Postby Brenda » Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:11 am

Ugh, Where did it all go? Let's do it again.

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Brenda
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Re: Help Me Please!!

Postby Brenda » Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:41 am

I am not exactly sure how I will change, but I assume my perception will change dramatically. I will see life clearer. The fog will be removed, and replaced with unconditional love.
The perception of life MAY change, but not dramatically.
There are no expectations of how it will be. there is really no idea in mind, just looking to live in truth.
What will change is the experiential RECOGNITION that there is no self/you in any shape or form. And it has never been.
The resistance here is the uncertainty of how to let go of the "I". If it never existed, then there is no need to let it go. So how does one view this?

B
ut, it’s not about unconditional love. Feeling of unconditional love is a state, and no states are permanent, they are all subject to change. Seeing through the separate individual is not about not having any ‘bad’ or uncomfortable feelings any more. Rather it’s about encompassing all emotions, accepting WHATEVER is arising in this moment (even the so called negative emotions).
Yes. This makes sense. If we are not our emotions as emotions are not permanent, meaning they are not real, just an illusion, then one would not resonate with any emotion in particular. This makes sense to me and usually works well. As the emotion arises, and we accept it, the confusion comes from if there is nobody observing it, then it must not be real, and there is no "I", the real question is -isn't accepting it a "Doing"?
There is NO you, who could see life in a new way.
The perception of life might changes or might not. But even if it changes, it won’t change as much as you would expect.
There are no expectations of this new view of life, but the question is - once the attachment to the emotion is gone, would there still be suffering? Suffering is caused by filters or beliefs which creates the illusion, so if this illusion did not exist, would suffering still exist?
“I will detach from those things are keep me separate” – Please read this sentence a few times, and see the trick of thoughts.
The trickery here is that there is no "I" as "I" does not exist therefor this statement is not true.
Since "I" does not exist, any statement with an "I" also must not exist, there for it must be an illusion.
Also "separation" is also an illusion, as there is only one. So for one to think they in separation, is still in illusion.
Having said this, does this mean in conversation, the "I" needs to be omitted from all conversation?



I
The observer itself is the illusion of the self which needs to be seen through.
There is no watcher. The watcher itself is an illusion.
There is resistance here.
This seems to make sense intellectually, but not physically. If there is no observing of life, then there is no existence, and with no existence, what can be real?
If life is just happening, and "I" am not part of it, then I am not a doer, but just being. What does that really mean?

Here are some common words used for the same illusion of the self:

awareness = consciousness = witness = experiencer = perceiver = knower = looker = noticer = watcher = feeler = seer = self = universal Self = true Self = I = me = myself = emptiness = nothingness = my real nature = field = field of experiencing = space = knowing space… and more

These are just the different words pointing to the same illusion.
More resistance here, as these words are commonly used to describe the self. What is a better way to understand the being that we are? Not sure how to see this?
To an imagined something that is the subject, that is the knowing or being aware or noticing or watching or seeing or feeling (etc) the objects (thoughts, sensations, images, etc).
Please clarify. This is unclear.
For the time our investigation, I would like to ask you to stop reading/listening any teachers, and rather spend your time looking. Also, I would like to ask you to put aside all learned knowledge. You have to see this experientially and not relying on others’ experiences. Can we agree on these?
This is perfect. Start from the beginning to grasp a new enlightened view. My current beliefs don't have a home with this new way of seeing life.
Does this include not reading other forums on this website?
Before starting, please read my above comments a few more times and tell me what comes up by reading the comments about the expectations.
Is there any resistance to any of it?
Joining this forum, there was a lot of frustration not being able to grasp something that is said to be so simple. This frustration has turned to confusion. Confusion of what to do with this "I". Hearing it does not exist, but yet it seems to still be a weight drug along the path. This is where the resistance lies currently.

thanks Vivien!!

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Vivien
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Re: Help Me Please!!

Postby Vivien » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:36 am

Hi Brenda,
Joining this forum, there was a lot of frustration not being able to grasp something that is said to be so simple. This frustration has turned to confusion. Confusion of what to do with this "I". Hearing it does not exist, but yet it seems to still be a weight drug along the path. This is where the resistance lies currently.
You don’t have to figure this out intellectually for yourself. I will guide you through the process by asking lots of questions where to look. So you don’t have to worry about the how. That’s my job. Your job is to LOOK to the direction I will be pointing you.

It might not be easy, especially at the beginning, but if you are persistent, then sooner or later you will be able to see through the illusion.

But we haven’t even started the investigation. Currently we are just examining your beliefs and expectations to see them only as beliefs and not actual facts about awakening. So I am just pointing out the misperceptions and beliefs you hold about this topic. Since these beliefs and expectations can prevent you seeing what is really happening.

But you don’t have to do anything with any of these expectations, it’s enough if you keep eye on them, and to know that these are just beliefs and not facts about awakening.
V: There is no you which life could express itself through.
B; I want to believe this but I am confused how to look at it. It just is...
You don’t have to believe in anything. You are already have too much beliefs :) We are not making new beliefs, rather we are going to see through the current beliefs, and as the result those will fall way by themselves.
Life is happening around me but I am not part of it.
There is NO YOU that could be part of life. There is only life. But there is no you/self in it.
You might not understand this now. But that’s all right. You will see this for yourself later.
The resistance here is the uncertainty of how to let go of the "I". If it never existed, then there is no need to let it go. So how does one view this?
The ‘I’ cannot be let go.
It only can be RECOGNIZED that there has never been an ‘I’ there.
This is our whole investigation will be about.
If we are not our emotions as emotions are not permanent,
First, you have to understand intellectually, that what you believe yourself to be doesn’t exist. It’s just a fantasy. Just an illusion.
So since the self is just an illusion, it’s actually not there, therefore it cannot be said that “we are not our emotions”, since there is no self that can be or have emotions.

Emotions are, but it’s not happening to anything.
Emotions are not owned to anything.
Emotions are, but the self isn’t.
As the emotion arises, and we accept it, the confusion comes from if there is nobody observing it, then it must not be real, and there is no "I", the real question is -isn't accepting it a "Doing"?
There is no you that could accept or not an emotion.
There is a belief here that emotions are happening to you or to a self.

So there is a belief that there is ME + emotions.
But no. There is no ME + emotions. There are emotions without a ME.
There are only emotions. But no ME.
There are no expectations of this new view of life, but the question is - once the attachment to the emotion is gone, would there still be suffering? Suffering is caused by filters or beliefs which creates the illusion, so if this illusion did not exist, would suffering still exist?
Just because the self is seen through the ‘attachment to emotions won’t be gone’. Since the personality won’t change.
Suffering happens when being lost in thoughts happens. It means that the thoughts in that moment are not seen only as arising thoughts (only as ‘containers’ coming and going), but rather their ‘content’, what they are about is taken as reality. And of course, since each thought is about the self, the self is taken as something real. And this, let’s call ‘delusion’ still can happen even after seeing the illusion of the self. But when it’s investigated, it can be seen for what it is. But there is no guaranty that in the next moment the story of a self won’t reassert itself. It’s a habit of the mind. It’s a conditioned pattern of thinking. It’s the result of a life-long conditioning. But upon each looking it gets a little bit weaker and weaker.

Also, personality problems, traumas, emotional pains don’t dissolve just because of seeing no self. So all the conditioned reactions that stem from them still can arise. However, if someone decides to work on these, it’s usually much easier after seeing no-self.
Having said this, does this mean in conversation, the "I" needs to be omitted from all conversation?
Please don’t stop using the word ‘I’ when it feels like there is an I. If you stop using this word, you would give me a false impression that you have seen that there is no self, while actually you just avoided using the word ‘I’, but you still believe that there is a self there.
There is resistance here.
This seems to make sense intellectually, but not physically. If there is no observing of life, then there is no existence, and with no existence, what can be real?
If life is just happening, and "I" am not part of it, then I am not a doer, but just being. What does that really mean?
You are thinking too much :) You don’t have figure out this intellectually.

With thinking you cannot get anywhere. We will examine the experience directly, without thought interpretation.
More resistance here, as these words are commonly used to describe the self. What is a better way to understand the being that we are? Not sure how to see this?
Dear Brenda, you are not seeing what I am talking about, since your belief in the existence of the self is very strong.
You are believing that there is a self there.

And you are expecting that you will be able to figure out that what you are.
But there is NO SELF in any shape or form.
You won’t be able to figure out what you are, because there is NO YOU that could be anything.
The you, the self, the I, is just an illusion.
The only thing that will happen, is that it will be DISCOVERED that there is NO SELF at all.
V: To an imagined something that is the subject, that is the knowing or being aware or noticing or watching or seeing or feeling (etc) the objects (thoughts, sensations, images, etc).
B: Please clarify. This is unclear.
We humans believe that there is a self somewhere inside the body, or somehow connected to the body, and we call this self as ‘me’.

Everything else outside this body is not-me.

So I am the subject that is seeing, looking outside of this body and seeing the world, which is not-me, out there.
So there is a me (subject) and the not-me (object).

And I (subject) is aware of what is happening out there (object).

But there is no I inside the body, being aware what is happening outside in the world.
The split of me and not-me are not real, it’s just imagined.
Since there is no me inside the body, therefore there cannot be no-me outside the body.

The body is there, the world is there, the chair the body is sitting on is there, but there is no me, no self inside the body having the experience of sitting on the chair.

Sitting on the chair happens, but it doesn’t happen to me. It doesn’t happen to a self.

But currently this is just a description for you.
I don’t expect you to see this experientially for now.
I just described to you how it is.

When we start the investigation, we will look at this closely. So don’t worry.
This is perfect. Start from the beginning to grasp a new enlightened view. My current beliefs don't have a home with this new way of seeing life.
Does this include not reading other forums on this website?
Yes, for two reasons. First, if you read others’ post, you might take on more beliefs about how this should feel like or be like, and that just would create more confusion. But even worse, you might start to compare your progress with others with the conclusion that you are not good enough or that you are not doing it right. Secondly, if you spend your time reading others’ posts, you won’t have enough time to investigate those questions and exercises I will give you. The more time and energy you put into looking, the quicker and easier you can see through the self.

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Brenda
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Re: Help Me Please!!

Postby Brenda » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:08 am

Hi Vivien.
This all sounds perfect.
Thank you for sharing.

Let’s get started!!

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Vivien
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Re: Help Me Please!!

Postby Vivien » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:12 am

Hi Brenda,

As stated in my first post, my role is to directly point to what IS, through the use of exercises and questions. Your role is to LOOK carefully to what is being pointed at. It is this simple LOOKING (not thinking) that brings the realisation that there is no separate self and never has been.

Okay, now we become aware of actual experience (AE) and what LOOKING is.
‘Looking’ is just plain looking at actual/direct experience (AE), which is simply colour (image), sound, smell, sensation, taste and the simple knowing of thought at face value that is appearing right now in the moment. You are looking at the raw experience of AE and noticing the labels and thoughts ABOUT the raw experience. The key to this exploration is the careful LOOKING. Why? Because it’s the act of actually LOOKING and not finding an “I” that brings about the realisation of there being no separate self and that there has never been a separate self.

The interpretation of actual experience happens quickly. So while inquiring, labelling and thought interpretation will always appear, but it is possible to become aware of the thoughts that appear with and overlay actual experience. Another key component of this exploration is being able to tell the difference between actual experience and the interpretation by thought of actual experience.
Here's an exercise that will help you to see what we mean exactly by direct experience. I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup = visual sight
Smelling coffee = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup = sensation
Tasting the coffee = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual/direct experience) and let me know how you go.

Please write me a list as above for one period of doing this exercise. Don’t forget to add the corresponding labels as shown above.


Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Brenda
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Re: Help Me Please!!

Postby Brenda » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:00 am

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual/direct experience) and let me know how you go.

Please write me a list as above for one period of doing this exercise. Don’t forget to add the corresponding labels as shown above.
Seeing a phone = visual sight
no smell = smell
Feeling the hardness of the phone = sensation
no taste = taste
Hearing the keys when typing = sound
Thought about sending a message = thought


Seeing a glass of water = visual sight
Smell wet = smell
Feeling the coldness of the glass = sensation
Taste the water = taste
Hearing the water chug = sound
Thought about drinking the water = thought


I did this many times today with many different scenarios and realize how quick narration arises of what is happening, sometimes even adding emotion to expectations, adding a story, where no story is needed.

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Vivien
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Re: Help Me Please!!

Postby Vivien » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:35 am

Hi Brenda,
I did this many times today with many different scenarios and realize how quick narration arises of what is happening, sometimes even adding emotion to expectations, adding a story, where no story is needed.
Yes, exactly. You did a nice looking.

I gave you the actual experience exercise to help you to differentiate between what is actually happening and what THOUGHTS ARE ABOUT what is happening.

Now we start investigating thoughts.
This exercise has a dual purpose. Firstly, to become aware of each and every though as they appear. Secondly, the careful looking for the gap is an example of how carefully to look when looking for the ‘separate self’.

Here is a step-by-step description of how to look at thoughts. First thing is to sit for at least 5-10 minutes quietly somewhere, several times throughout your day. Close your eyes and just notice thoughts. Don’t engage with any thought, just notice them.

1. Notice the current thought that is present.
Like when you sit observing the body, a thought might arise “this is my feet” or “here is a pain” or “my breathing is too quick” or “I am bored with this exercise” or “I have better things to do” or any sorts of thoughts.
2. This thought will pass and another thought will come. So just observe this thought passing.
3. Then wait for the next thought to come.
4. When the next thought is present, just notice it, and see how it passes.
5. Then wait for the next thought to come.

Between the 2 thoughts there is a gap. It can be very short or subtle, just a second or a few seconds before the next thought come in.

This is how to look at thoughts:
Looking how they come and go, and
Observing the short gap between them.
Noticing how the current thought is passing.
And waiting for the next thought to come.

Throughout your waking day, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts.

Let me know how it goes.

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Brenda
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:34 am

Re: Help Me Please!!

Postby Brenda » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:56 pm

Between the 2 thoughts there is a gap. It can be very short or subtle, just a second or a few seconds before the next thought come in.
As I consciously am aware of my thoughts, they stop coming, and there is just silence.
as I allow thoughts to come, they are like news bulletins hoping I will attach on so they can tell a story. If I don't acknowledge them they dissolve and a new one comes up. During the gap, I am more aware of my body and the things around me. I notice the more I focus on the gap, the more visual the thoughts become, which grabs my attention easier. The one visual was a girl being hysterical that nobody was listening. ego maybe?
The more I just let the thoughts flow, the longer the gaps become.

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Vivien
Posts: 2734
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:07 am
Location: Australia

Re: Help Me Please!!

Postby Vivien » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:56 am

Hi Brenda,
As I consciously am aware of my thoughts, they stop coming, and there is just silence.
as I allow thoughts to come, they are like news bulletins hoping I will attach on so they can tell a story. If I don't acknowledge them they dissolve and a new one comes up. During the gap, I am more aware of my body and the things around me. I notice the more I focus on the gap, the more visual the thoughts become, which grabs my attention easier. The one visual was a girl being hysterical that nobody was listening. ego maybe?
The more I just let the thoughts flow, the longer the gaps become.
You are making the statements that:

- you are aware of thoughts
- you have a power to allow thoughts to come or not
- you have to power to acknowledge them
- you can be aware of your body too and things around you
- you have or own attention

Yes, this is how we talk in everyday situations, and we usually take these thoughts for granted without ever investigating if the above statements are actually true or not. So with the next exercise you will have the opportunity to focus on investigating if the above statements are actually in line with experience.

Looking for gaps between thoughts were a preparation exercise to help you how to observe the coming and going of thoughts and also how to look for the self later.

The whole illusion is mainly created by thoughts. So therefore, we will investigate thoughts and thought labels thoroughly.
So then let’s have a deeper look on thoughts. Sit for about 15 minutes or longer and look similarly as you looked for the gaps between thoughts. Look for the ‘answer’ BEFORE thought interpretation kicks in.

Where do thoughts come from?
Where are they going?
Can ‘you’ stop a thought in the middle?
Can ‘you’ predict what will be the next thought?
Can 'you' choose not to have painful or negative thoughts?

Can an 'I' be found that generates thoughts?
“I think” - What is 'I'? What is the one that thinks?
What is the thinker of thoughts? – don’t think, rather look for a ‘thinker’
Does the thinker of the thought appear in experience? Can it be found?
Or could it be that the 'I' that thinks is also just a thought?
Do you think thoughts or you are just ‘being thought’?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing? Including the thought 'I'?


Please go through these questions and answer and quote ALL of them one-by-one. Don’t miss any. Try to answer them only from direct experience, and leave aside all intellectual interpretation or understanding. Please, DON’T THINK about the answers, rather LOOK at what is before thoughts. Take your time.

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/


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