Looking for me

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Takamine
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Re: Looking for me

Postby Takamine » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:00 pm

Hi Kay,
“That’s how it feels”…and what is the AE of “that’s how it feels”?
It is a feeling of existence, with thoughts attaching to it calling it me. However, stripping it back, it’s just a feeling, thought calls it existence.
Let’s explore this SENSE (feeling) of self very-very thoroughly.
Keep the focus of attention on the sense of self and inquire…

Does the sense of self have a location?
The only thing that ever makes sense when trying to refer to ‘me’ in terms of a location, is here. However, I can’t define an exact location or specific point where my seeming sense of self is.
Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?
No, not in any normal way that I can define / think of.
Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?
It doesn’t say anything but there is communication in an indirect way, of existing. However, that may not be the self, it is just a feeling that I label as existence. Cutting it back, it is just a feeling, albeit an ever present one.
If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?
There seems to be a felt knowing that there is existence right here, right now. Again though, the ‘self’ concept of Colm is put on top of that. Also again, thought labels it as existence, a conceptual term.
Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?
No, it is a conceptual idea. There is a subtle vibrancy at the core of the feeling of existence though. This is likely just ‘life’ or ‘life-ing’, and concepts of self / Colm are attached to it.
What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?
At its core it seems to be just a feeling of existence, an ever present one. Then, in terms of the idea of Colm, thoughts, concepts, memories, etc. are tied together in a seemingly intricate web on top of that feeling.
Wonderful! Is it the mind wrestling with this, or are there thoughts appearing that seem to be wrestling with this, and thoughts ABOUT something (mind) wrestling with this?
Well, in AE there are just thoughts appearing. It is hard to deny a logical correlation between them though, as it seems in response to data being input. However, I cannot see behind this, nor will I be able to, and given the general random nature of thoughts, it is probably safe to assume it is just more related thoughts appearing about other related thoughts.
Great! So it is clear that there is no gap for there to be a seer and the seen? In other words, there is no one seeing black…black (AE as colour) is all there is…right?
Yes, it is my experience, but I sense resistance (thought/feeling) in me somehow about this.
Yes…so can you see that there is no experiencer of experience, that they are one and the same thing? So is it possible for there to be a subject and an object split?
Similar to the last question, yes I can see this, they are the same thing. However, there are thoughts / feelings of resistance to it arising. I need to sit with this more.
Is the colour an appearance, or it simply IS? Does what is labelled as ‘colour’ actually appear and disappear?
No, it doesn’t appear and disappear. If it’s there, it’s there.
Wonderful! If there is no "seeing", then can there be anything "unseen"?
I’m not sure I understand the question fully, but if all is one, then there can be nothing unseen.
How can this appear just as it does if there is literally no see-ers?
As best I can guess, it seems to be a function of the way it works i.e. it is meant to trick seeming people into believing they are see-ers.
What are the implications when there is no witness to be found - no separable awareness of any kind?
That everything is one. That there is no localised me.
Look at whatever is in front of you. Is it seen from the perspective of two windows (eyes), or is it like a windscreen view? Now zoom back in and try to find the thing that’s seeing. Is there seeing separate from what’s seen, or is there just what’s seen? Is there any awareness separate from experience or is there just experience?
It’s a windscreen, wide open view. I can’t find the thing that is seeing. Seeing and seen are one. It looks to be just experience, which awareness is a constituent element of.
Where exactly is this “me” that has “been trained in believing that there is a me”?
Nowhere, although it seems to be in my head. It’s maybe a repeating network of thoughts, memories, etc.
What is it exactly that is trying to “break habits”?
I assume it is the same illusory pattern outlined in answer to the last question.
When you LOOK at that, like you looked at the commentary on the sports exercise, and you turn the commentary off…what is actually happening?
Life is happening, nothing else.
Is there something called “pressure” or is the raw experience ‘sensation” being labelled as “pressure”? Is “pressure” actually known?
If it’s parred back, it's just a sensation. Thought labels it as ‘pressure’.
Where is this “I” that is labelling a head? Is there an “I” that is labelling, or is labelling just happening?
I can’t find the ‘I’. It is just an incessant and repeating thought pattern that seems to run on automatic, with many, many assumptions attached to it. It can look like the ‘I’ is labelling, but it is just happening.
Are there two “pressure points” How is this known?
Without thought, it’s not known. There would just be sensation.
So is it clear, that thought points to sensation and labels it a ‘head’? Can an actual head be found/known?
Without thought, no, nothing can be known.
With eyes open, touch the top of “your head”. Can you actually see “your head”, or are there only thoughts about “my head”? How is it known that you are touching the “top of your head”?
I can’t see my ‘head’. It is known only by thoughts and associations based on memory.

Thanks again Kay,

Colm.

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forgetmenot
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Re: Looking for me

Postby forgetmenot » Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:42 am

Hey Colm,
“That’s how it feels”…and what is the AE of “that’s how it feels”?
It is a feeling of existence, with thoughts attaching to it calling it me. However, stripping it back, it’s just a feeling, thought calls it existence.
Is that "feeling" an actual 'body sensation' or is it simply an idea?
If that "feeling" were to disappear, would this "existence" no longer exist?

Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?
It doesn’t say anything but there is communication in an indirect way, of existing. However, that may not be the self, it is just a feeling that I label as existence. Cutting it back, it is just a feeling, albeit an ever present one.
It doesn’t matter what thought points to and says is existence. If you check it with AE, what do you find? The belief that there are alive things and not alive things are perhaps coming into play here? That there is a difference between a living thing and a rock, for example.

When the supposed body dies…which is actually AE of colour…does the Knowing die with it? Does that what is labelled as colour actually die?
If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?
There seems to be a felt knowing that there is existence right here, right now. Again though, the ‘self’ concept of Colm is put on top of that. Also again, thought labels it as existence, a conceptual term.
Lovely, yes. The idea that Knowing /experience IS, is overlaid with the idea of it being a personal me.
Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?
No, it is a conceptual idea. There is a subtle vibrancy at the core of the feeling of existence though. This is likely just ‘life’ or ‘life-ing’, and concepts of self / Colm are attached to it.
Okay…but does that “vibrancy” have a location? Does the vibrancy itself suggest that it is a some ‘thing’ or belongs to a some ‘thing’. If it does, where exactly is this something? And is that vibrancy awared 24/7?
Great! So it is clear that there is no gap for there to be a seer and the seen? In other words, there is no one seeing black…black (AE as colour) is all there is…right?
Yes, it is my experience, but I sense resistance (thought/feeling) in me somehow about this.
So, did you have a LOOK at what this resistance actually is and if there is anyone to be found who is feeling it? How can what already IS be resisted? When you think you find "resistance", try to define what it is that is being "resisted", and what it is that is doing the "resisting". Let me know what you find!
How can this appear just as it does if there is literally no see-ers?
As best I can guess, it seems to be a function of the way it works i.e. it is meant to trick seeming people into believing they are see-ers.
At best guess? We are back to guessing?
What is tricking what exactly? It is simply a story. First there would have to be a someone to trick and that this someone is seeing with eyes.

What are the implications when there is no witness to be found - no separable awareness of any kind?
That everything is one. That there is no localised me.
Yes..THIS is whole, complete and seamless no matter what thought says!
Where exactly is this “me” that has “been trained in believing that there is a me”?
Nowhere, although it seems to be in my head. It’s maybe a repeating network of thoughts, memories, etc.
Please don’t tell me “maybe”. LOOK and then tell me what you find when actually LOOKING.
Where exactly is this “me” that has “been trained in believing that there is a me”?

What is it exactly that is trying to “break habits”?
I assume it is the same illusory pattern outlined in answer to the last question.
Please don’t ASSUME. LOOK! Assuming, guessing and maybeing isn’t LOOKING. It is LOOKING that brings the realisation…assumptions etc.

What is it exactly that is trying to “break habits”?
Is there something called “pressure” or is the raw experience ‘sensation” being labelled as “pressure”? Is “pressure” actually known?
If it’s parred back, it's just a sensation. Thought labels it as ‘pressure’.
Everything…and I mean EVERYTHING has to be checked with AE. If you aren’t going to do that ie LOOK, then we might as well stop this exploration right here and now.
With eyes open, touch the top of “your head”. Can you actually see “your head”, or are there only thoughts about “my head”? How is it known that you are touching the “top of your head”?
I can’t see my ‘head’. It is known only by thoughts and associations based on memory.
What is AE of 'memory' exactly?

So, it isn’t actually KNOWN…it is simply a thought story. A thought story is KNOWN but what the thought story is pointing to is not KNOWN. Is this clear?


I think that this would be a good time for you to go back to the beginning of your thread and re-read it very carefully and thoroughly. We have done quite a lot of exploring and a lot of it isn't going to sink in the first or second or third time round....so read your thread thoroughly....take your time. Redo the exercises and then come back and report how you found doing this and what further insights you go.

Love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Takamine
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Re: Looking for me

Postby Takamine » Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:26 pm

Hi Kay,

Thanks for your responses.

I have left the majority of the questions and will do the review of the thread as you have suggested. I will revisit them after the review.
Is there something called “pressure” or is the raw experience ‘sensation” being labelled as “pressure”? Is “pressure” actually known?
If it’s parred back, it's just a sensation. Thought labels it as ‘pressure’.
Everything…and I mean EVERYTHING has to be checked with AE. If you aren’t going to do that ie LOOK, then we might as well stop this exploration right here and now.
I am not seeing the issue with my answer here, what am I missing? In AE of the finger pressing on top of my head, there is just a sensation and thought labelling that sensation as pressure. What am I not seeing? It seems important to me to get clarity on what I am not seeing, before going back to review everything, so wanted to ask about this one.
I think that this would be a good time for you to go back to the beginning of your thread and re-read it very carefully and thoroughly. We have done quite a lot of exploring and a lot of it isn't going to sink in the first or second or third time round....so read your thread thoroughly....take your time. Redo the exercises and then come back and report how you found doing this and what further insights you go.
Thanks Kay, I agree, I think it would be useful too, I will do this.

Many thanks again,

Colm.

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forgetmenot
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Re: Looking for me

Postby forgetmenot » Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:47 am

Hey Colm,
Is there something called “pressure” or is the raw experience ‘sensation” being labelled as “pressure”? Is “pressure” actually known?
If it’s parred back, it's just a sensation. Thought labels it as ‘pressure’.
Everything…and I mean EVERYTHING has to be checked with AE. If you aren’t going to do that ie LOOK, then we might as well stop this exploration right here and now.
I am not seeing the issue with my answer here, what am I missing? In AE of the finger pressing on top of my head, there is just a sensation and thought labelling that sensation as pressure. What am I not seeing? It seems important to me to get clarity on what I am not seeing, before going back to review everything, so wanted to ask about this one.
I didn't say there was an issue. I was just reiterating that everything needs to be looked at with AE ie pared back to see what actually IS, otherwise there is no purpose to the guiding, as realisation happens from actually LOOKING and we would simply go round in circles. :)
I think that this would be a good time for you to go back to the beginning of your thread and re-read it very carefully and thoroughly. We have done quite a lot of exploring and a lot of it isn't going to sink in the first or second or third time round....so read your thread thoroughly....take your time. Redo the exercises and then come back and report how you found doing this and what further insights you go.
Thanks Kay, I agree, I think it would be useful too, I will do this.
Great! :) Take your time and I look forward to hearing from you when you are done.

Love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Takamine
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Re: Looking for me

Postby Takamine » Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:04 pm

Thanks Kay :-)

I've blocked off time this weekend to start the thread review process.

I'll be in touch after I've went through it again a few times.

Thanks,

Colm.

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Takamine
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Re: Looking for me

Postby Takamine » Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:37 pm

Hi Kay,

Just a quick update to let you know that I am still working through the re-review of this. I would like to continue for a few more days with it yet.

I hope that is OK.

Thanks,

Colm.

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forgetmenot
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Re: Looking for me

Postby forgetmenot » Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:04 am

That is absolutely fine with me. I prefer you take your time and review it thoroughly than to rush.

Love, kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Takamine
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Re: Looking for me

Postby Takamine » Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:37 pm

Thanks Kay,

Colm.

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Takamine
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Re: Looking for me

Postby Takamine » Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:24 pm

Hi Kay,

Thanks for the time to go back over everything, it was very useful to revisit it all.
“That’s how it feels”…and what is the AE of “that’s how it feels”?
It is a feeling of existence, with thoughts attaching to it calling it me. However, stripping it back, it’s just a feeling, thought calls it existence.
Is that "feeling" an actual 'body sensation' or is it simply an idea?

It is not an idea. It is at the core of my seeming being, a presence, existence, not sure what to call it but it is always here when awake, aware of being aware.
Q: If that "feeling" were to disappear, would this "existence" no longer exist?
I don’t know, it always seems to be here when awake and aware. The feeling goes when I fall asleep. I do not know for sure if existence ends when I am in deep dreamless sleep, it seems to as far as my POV is concerned. I wake up and existence seems to resume. I can’t refer to AE for deep sleep except to say, there was nothing, on awakening.
Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?
It doesn’t say anything but there is communication in an indirect way, of existing. However, that may not be the self, it is just a feeling that I label as existence. Cutting it back, it is just a feeling, albeit an ever present one.
It doesn’t matter what thought points to and says is existence. If you check it with AE, what do you find? The belief that there are alive things and not alive things are perhaps coming into play here? That there is a difference between a living thing and a rock, for example.
In AE it would just be a feeling of being, a continuous one when awake. Thought associates it with existence.
When the supposed body dies…which is actually AE of colour…does the Knowing die with it? Does that what is labelled as colour actually die?
I am not sure I understand the question correctly. If the body dies, I don’t know if what is labelled as colour dies also. I assume not, but can’t say for sure.
Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?
No, it is a conceptual idea. There is a subtle vibrancy at the core of the feeling of existence though. This is likely just ‘life’ or ‘life-ing’, and concepts of self / Colm are attached to it.
Okay…but does that “vibrancy” have a location? Does the vibrancy itself suggest that it is a some ‘thing’ or belongs to a some ‘thing’. If it does, where exactly is this something? And is that vibrancy awared 24/7?
No, the vibrancy is just here, I can’t point to a physical location and say there it is. It is not awared 24/7 e.g. in deep sleep.
Great! So it is clear that there is no gap for there to be a seer and the seen? In other words, there is no one seeing black…black (AE as colour) is all there is…right?
Yes, it is my experience, but I sense resistance (thought/feeling) in me somehow about this.
So, did you have a LOOK at what this resistance actually is and if there is anyone to be found who is feeling it? How can what already IS be resisted? When you think you find "resistance", try to define what it is that is being "resisted", and what it is that is doing the "resisting". Let me know what you find!
Resistance is thought. I can’t find anyone. What is resisted is the truth of there being no me. What is doing the resisting, I cannot put my finger on. I keep looking at this, but it doesn’t seem to be a matter of just putting it down, it seems to come back. In saying that, I can find nothing and no one.
How can this appear just as it does if there is literally no see-ers?
As best I can guess, it seems to be a function of the way it works i.e. it is meant to trick seeming people into believing they are see-ers.
At best guess? We are back to guessing?
Well, ‘guess’ was used as it was a stab at a reason for why the world operates the way it seems to, nothing else but thought conjecture seeming to appear. The vast majority are bought into the idea of their being a separate self, so thought said that would imply some kind of reason for everyone being so wrong. That’s all just more thought story though, so irrelevant.
What is tricking what exactly? It is simply a story. First there would have to be a someone to trick and that this someone is seeing with eyes.
I used the term tricky as the vast majority of seeming people believe that they are separate selves, in separate bodies, with their own awareness, etc. It does not seem obvious that everyone is in a dream. Again, I know that is just thought, so it’s irrelevant. It was what appeared in the thought stream at the time.
Where exactly is this “me” that has “been trained in believing that there is a me”?
Nowhere, although it seems to be in my head. It’s maybe a repeating network of thoughts, memories, etc.
Please don’t tell me “maybe”. LOOK and then tell me what you find when actually LOOKING.
Where exactly is this “me” that has “been trained in believing that there is a me”?
I cannot find a ‘me’, that is clear. However, I can’t say that I am now operating with that belief completely gone. It still seems to be there, no matter how much I can’t find evidence for it. I know that sounds contradictory.
What is it exactly that is trying to “break habits”?
I assume it is the same illusory pattern outlined in answer to the last question.
Please don’t ASSUME. LOOK! Assuming, guessing and maybeing isn’t LOOKING. It is LOOKING that brings the realisation…assumptions etc.
What is it exactly that is trying to “break habits”?
An illusion.
With eyes open, touch the top of “your head”. Can you actually see “your head”, or are there only thoughts about “my head”? How is it known that you are touching the “top of your head”?
I can’t see my ‘head’. It is known only by thoughts and associations based on memory.
What is AE of 'memory' exactly?
It is thought.
So, it isn’t actually KNOWN…it is simply a thought story. A thought story is KNOWN but what the thought story is pointing to is not KNOWN. Is this clear?
Yes, that is clear. The story is a bundle of thoughts, an interpretation of AE.
I think that this would be a good time for you to go back to the beginning of your thread and re-read it very carefully and thoroughly. We have done quite a lot of exploring and a lot of it isn't going to sink in the first or second or third time round....so read your thread thoroughly....take your time. Redo the exercises and then come back and report how you found doing this and what further insights you go.
Thanks for the opportunity to do that, it was useful. What I have noticed is how much thought plays a role in just about everything. It is always on when awake, and it moves very quickly and often subtly. It’s interesting that things just seem to appear in a seeming sequence e.g. thoughts about a bad day, feelings of sadness arise, they’re all claimed as ‘me’. Thought immediately links up stuff and tries to relate it back to an imaginary me.

I cannot find ‘me’, the belief system seems largely based on thoughts, all happening very quickly, layering on top of one another, etc. Although I cannot find a me, I can’t say that the belief is fully gone, will keep looking at it. It has also become clearer to me how much useless static thought puts in the way i.e. I could be staring at heaven but thought blocks the view.

Many thanks again Kay,

Colm.

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forgetmenot
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Re: Looking for me

Postby forgetmenot » Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:59 am

Hey Colm,
Is that "feeling" an actual 'body sensation' or is it simply an idea?

It is not an idea. It is at the core of my seeming being, a presence, existence, not sure what to call it but it is always here when awake, aware of being aware.
Q: If that "feeling" were to disappear, would this "existence" no longer exist?
I don’t know, it always seems to be here when awake and aware. The feeling goes when I fall asleep. I do not know for sure if existence ends when I am in deep dreamless sleep, it seems to as far as my POV is concerned. I wake up and existence seems to resume. I can’t refer to AE for deep sleep except to say, there was nothing, on awakening.
Why I am being pedantic about this, is because this “feeling” is what keeps the idea alive, that it’s a me, Colm, ‘here’, and everything else that is not Colm is over/out there.

The AE of “feeling” is thought. Without thought, how is it known as a feeling? Can you find anyone that is actually feeling this feeling, or the 'vibration' simply IS?

Are you aware of this “feeling” 24/7, or only in moments? If you are not aware of it constantly, every second, every minute, then is this feeling essential to know that you ARE? If that feeling were to disappear forever and never return…would you disappear with it?
Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?
It doesn’t say anything but there is communication in an indirect way, of existing. However, that may not be the self, it is just a feeling that I label as existence. Cutting it back, it is just a feeling, albeit an ever present one.
There is simply an Isness….a knowing that you ARE….but does this Isness actually identify AS anything? And if it does…how is this known?
It doesn’t matter what thought points to and says is existence. If you check it with AE, what do you find? The belief that there are alive things and not alive things are perhaps coming into play here? That there is a difference between a living thing and a rock, for example.
In AE it would just be a feeling of being, a continuous one when awake. Thought associates it with existence.
And here is a good example of what I am trying to convey/point to. When the story of Colm going to sleep at night time arrives…there is a sense of absence. What is called loss of consciousness. Where does consciousness actually go? How would consciousness wake itself up from the slumber? Does Isness actually disappear? So is there absence of awareness, or awareness of absence?
When the supposed body dies…which is actually AE of colour…does the Knowing die with it? Does that what is labelled as colour actually die?
I am not sure I understand the question correctly. If the body dies, I don’t know if what is labelled as colour dies also. I assume not, but can’t say for sure.
How does colour die exactly? The idea of dying appears and it SEEMS that the colours labelled as 'me' no longer appear. But were those colours actually a me/Colm in the first place?

Look into the mirror throughout the day. Body image appears... notice that all that's really there are some colours, and a thought-story saying 'these colours are my body'

When you return to the mirror each time, consider whether these 'body colours' have ever appeared before.

Has this body image + story ever appeared before - or is this the only time you have ever been aware of these *exact* colours and this exact story about the body?

Can you find any previous appearances of the body? Where are they? If not how can it be known that the body has appeared before?

Is the appearance just appearing 'now' with only a thought-story claiming you've seen this body before?

Do that for today and report back what you find.

So, did you have a LOOK at what this resistance actually is and if there is anyone to be found who is feeling it? How can what already IS be resisted? When you think you find "resistance", try to define what it is that is being "resisted", and what it is that is doing the "resisting". Let me know what you find!
Resistance is thought. I can’t find anyone. What is resisted is the truth of there being no me. What is doing the resisting, I cannot put my finger on. I keep looking at this, but it doesn’t seem to be a matter of just putting it down, it seems to come back. In saying that, I can find nothing and no one.
The movement of resistance and acceptance is THIS/experience itself seemingly appearing as these movements, because there is no thing/abstraction that is not THIS. All abstractions in an abstract painting are the paint, but the paint does not become the abstractions. The ordinary IS the extraordinary. So the story of resistance and acceptance appear and are awared…but can you find anyone that resistance and acceptance is actually happening to? That is the key. If you can’t find anyone, then it must be a story, no matter how many times thought says it’s happening to a me/Colm.

But I don’t want you to take my word for it. That is why this whole exploration is about LOOKING, so that you get to see if for yourself.
How can this appear just as it does if there is literally no see-ers?
As best I can guess, it seems to be a function of the way it works i.e. it is meant to trick seeming people into believing they are see-ers.
At best guess? We are back to guessing?
Well, ‘guess’ was used as it was a stab at a reason for why the world operates the way it seems to, nothing else but thought conjecture seeming to appear. The vast majority are bought into the idea of their being a separate self, so thought said that would imply some kind of reason for everyone being so wrong. That’s all just more thought story though, so irrelevant.
Yes…thought stories seem to make the ups and downs of life, but they are irrelevant to life itself. Life doesn’t need a reason to BE.
Please don’t tell me “maybe”. LOOK and then tell me what you find when actually LOOKING.
Where exactly is this “me” that has “been trained in believing that there is a me”?

I cannot find a ‘me’, that is clear. However, I can’t say that I am now operating with that belief completely gone. It still seems to be there, no matter how much I can’t find evidence for it. I know that sounds contradictory.
Good! Now, is it a belief or is it simply an appearing thought? What does the word/label 'belief' point to as AE?
What is it exactly that is believing this?
What is the difference between 'believing a thought' and 'not believing a thought'?


The idea of the separate self isn’t going to disappear. There has NEVER been a separate self and yet the story has always appeared when it does! But even in that, do you go throughout your whole day being aware that there is a you doing life?
It is the not finding the ‘me’ that confirms to you that there is no ‘me’ no matter what story is appearing of a me or about a me.
I think that this would be a good time for you to go back to the beginning of your thread and re-read it very carefully and thoroughly. We have done quite a lot of exploring and a lot of it isn't going to sink in the first or second or third time round....so read your thread thoroughly....take your time. Redo the exercises and then come back and report how you found doing this and what further insights you go.
Thanks for the opportunity to do that, it was useful. What I have noticed is how much thought plays a role in just about everything. It is always on when awake, and it moves very quickly and often subtly. It’s interesting that things just seem to appear in a seeming sequence e.g. thoughts about a bad day, feelings of sadness arise, they’re all claimed as ‘me’. Thought immediately links up stuff and tries to relate it back to an imaginary me.
You will always have this thread to revisit, reread etc, and it's a good thing to do!

What exactly does it feel like to be a person? Since no person is every found…then what does it feel like to be a person, or not be a person?
I cannot find ‘me’, the belief system seems largely based on thoughts, all happening very quickly, layering on top of one another, etc. Although I cannot find a me, I can’t say that the belief is fully gone, will keep looking at it.
The idea that the idea of being a ‘me’ should no longer appear, is just that….an idea…a thought! Are beliefs truly held by you, or are they simply known to you as thoughts ABOUT beliefs? Are they truly deeply ingrained, or is it just a thought making that claim?
It has also become clearer to me how much useless static thought puts in the way i.e. I could be staring at heaven but thought blocks the view.
No matter what you are staring at...it all point to THIS ie what IS.
Can you find sound AND thought AND smell AND taste AND sensation AND colour AND thought? What does “AND” point to? Does it point to seamlessness or does it point to division? So what do you have if you ignore the “AND”?


Love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Takamine
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Re: Looking for me

Postby Takamine » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:55 pm

Hi Kay,

I had a crazy busy day today, so won’t get to this tonight. I’ll get a response in as soon as I can.

Thanks,

Colm.

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Takamine
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Re: Looking for me

Postby Takamine » Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:33 pm

Hi Kay,

Sorry for the delay in response.
Why I am being pedantic about this, is because this “feeling” is what keeps the idea alive, that it’s a me, Colm, ‘here’, and everything else that is not Colm is over/out there.
The AE of “feeling” is thought. Without thought, how is it known as a feeling? Can you find anyone that is actually feeling this feeling, or the 'vibration' simply IS?
I don’t see how the AE of feeling is thought. If I feel something hot, even if I did not have the thought to label it ‘hot’, I assume the feeling would still be there. However, there is no way I can take thought out of the equation to verify that. The vibration I referenced 'simply is' though, as you say.
Are you aware of this “feeling” 24/7, or only in moments?
I am not aware of it 24 / 7, say in deep sleep. I don’t know that I am in deep sleep, there seems to be nothing in that state.
If you are not aware of it constantly, every second, every minute, then is this feeling essential to know that you ARE?

I am thinking that perhaps I am confusing terms. To me, knowing that I just AM, is a feeling, a feeling of existence. Maybe feeling is not a good word to describe that. I don’t know it when I am in deep sleep though, I know nothing in deep sleep, or at least it seems that way. Therefore, maybe it is not essential.
If that feeling were to disappear forever and never return…would you disappear with it?
When being awake, I would say that yes, I would disappear if it was not there. However, I am not aware of it in sleep, but I can’t testify to anything in deep sleep.
There is simply an Isness….a knowing that you ARE….but does this Isness actually identify AS anything? And if it does…how is this known?
As mentioned above, I think that I describe that isness as a feeling, the feeling of existence, maybe 'feeling' is not a good term for that. Isness doesn’t identify as anything, it is just there, always on, at least in the waking state.
And here is a good example of what I am trying to convey/point to. When the story of Colm going to sleep at night time arrives…there is a sense of absence. What is called loss of consciousness. Where does consciousness actually go?

I don’t know.
How would consciousness wake itself up from the slumber?

I have observed that the experience of ‘Colm’ waking up, is more like an appliance being powered up by an unknown source i.e. it just happens.
Does Isness actually disappear?

Isness is always there when awake. I can’t testify to it when in deep sleep, there just seems to be nothing, at least there is no recollection of anything.
So is there absence of awareness, or awareness of absence?
That’s a great point, it would seem very likely that there is awareness of absence, as there is a knowing when I wake up that I was asleep, or there was sleep happening. I can’t see that clearly though.
How does colour die exactly?

I didn’t say that colour died if I died. I said that I assume it wouldn’t die, but as there would be no me around to see it, I can’t say for sure. As best as I can tell, when this human mechanism dies, this POV of the world through this set of peep holes ends too. I have no way to verify that though, it’s just an assumption. However, I wouldn’t fancy my chances of seeing colour again through this channel of awareness if someone came in now and lopped my head off.
The idea of dying appears and it SEEMS that the colours labelled as 'me' no longer appear. But were those colours actually a me/Colm in the first place?
In terms of what we have been discussing, everything related to Colm is thought, so there would be no Colm.
The movement of resistance and acceptance is THIS/experience itself seemingly appearing as these movements, because there is no thing/abstraction that is not THIS. All abstractions in an abstract painting are the paint, but the paint does not become the abstractions. The ordinary IS the extraordinary. So the story of resistance and acceptance appear and are awared…but can you find anyone that resistance and acceptance is actually happening to? That is the key. If you can’t find anyone, then it must be a story, no matter how many times thought says it’s happening to a me/Colm.

But I don’t want you to take my word for it. That is why this whole exploration is about LOOKING, so that you get to see if for yourself.
I think this is seen, but it needs to be looked at more.
Good! Now, is it a belief or is it simply an appearing thought? What does the word/label 'belief' point to as AE?
In the context of what we have discussed, there is nothing, it is all just thought. Anything in reality can’t be known. I get that conceptually, but I need to spend more time looking at it experientially.
What is it exactly that is believing this?
Looks like a series of thoughts associated with Colm.
What is the difference between 'believing a thought' and 'not believing a thought'?
Well, I would typically have said, a thought that is believed will perhaps be actioned in some way, a thought not believed would not be actioned. However, given that thought is just happening, it’s a moot point as it all must be one thought interacting with another thought, and on and on ad infinitum.
What exactly does it feel like to be a person? Since no person is every found…then what does it feel like to be a person, or not be a person?

It feels like life, the experiences of life, sensations, feelings, thoughts, etc. Again though, that is thought tying all that together.
The idea that the idea of being a ‘me’ should no longer appear, is just that….an idea…a thought! Are beliefs truly held by you, or are they simply known to you as thoughts ABOUT beliefs? Are they truly deeply ingrained, or is it just a thought making that claim?
Well, it must be thought, but to say that I am now sitting here clearly as ‘no self’ would not be honest.
No matter what you are staring at...it all point to THIS ie what IS.
Can you find sound AND thought AND smell AND taste AND sensation AND colour AND thought? What does “AND” point to? Does it point to seamlessness or does it point to division? So what do you have if you ignore the “AND”?
You have AE.
Look into the mirror throughout the day. Body image appears... notice that all that's really there are some colours, and a thought-story saying 'these colours are my body'

When you return to the mirror each time, consider whether these 'body colours' have ever appeared before.

Has this body image + story ever appeared before - or is this the only time you have ever been aware of these *exact* colours and this exact story about the body?
The body looks familiar, but there must be subtle differences between today and yesterday e.g. I didn’t shave. If comparing between years, there would be noticeable differences. Threads of the story about the body would be similar, but I doubt they are exactly the same each time I look at the body. Interestingly, I rarely look at the body for any extended period of time.
Can you find any previous appearances of the body? Where are they? If not how can it be known that the body has appeared before?

I can’t find any previous appearances of the body. The only record of them appearing before is through memory, which is thought.
Is the appearance just appearing 'now' with only a thought-story claiming you've seen this body before?
I only have memory to account for any previous experience of the body, which is thought, so that’s obviously no use. Therefore, it must only be appearing now with a thought story. There only ever is now, that is clear.
Do that for today and report back what you find.
Overall it was interesting to do this. Surprisingly, as referenced above, I don't ever spend much time looking at my body, maybe just to see I look OK before going out, or to shave, or some other functional thing. Prolonged looking brought a sensation of strangeness, like what is the body. I can't really explain it much more than that, just a strange curiosity. Interesting to do that, I will do it again.

I had a question I wanted to ask. Often times in this dialogue, there have been statements like:
- ‘Where exactly is this “me” that has “been trained in believing that there is a me”?’ and
- ‘So, did you have a LOOK at what this resistance actually is and if there is anyone to be found who is feeling it?’ and
- ‘Where exactly is this “me” that has “been trained in believing that there is a me”?’
as three examples. These questions are clearly pointing me to look to see that there is no self to be found.

However, there have also been statements like
- ‘It doesn’t matter what thought points to and says is existence. If you check it with AE, what do you find?’ and
- ‘Please don’t tell me “maybe”. LOOK and then tell me what you find when actually LOOKING.’ And
- ‘Please don’t ASSUME. LOOK! Assuming, guessing and maybeing isn’t LOOKING. It is LOOKING that brings the realisation…assumptions etc.’
as three examples. These questions are clearly asking me, or something to look and verify AE.

What I am a little confused about, is that given that the first batch of questions and the general thrust of the dialogue is to see that there is no self, the second batch clearly asks me to look and verify.

Who or what is doing the looking? Who or what is verifying that there is no self? If by the first set of questions, we are trying to establish there is no self, how can the second set have any validity, because there must be no one there to look or verify AE, just as much as there is no one there to believe in a thought story. I hope I have explained this clearly, but it was something that I can’t see clearly so wanted to ask.

Thanks again Kay.

Colm.

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forgetmenot
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Re: Looking for me

Postby forgetmenot » Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:16 pm

Hello Colm,
The AE of “feeling” is thought. Without thought, how is it known as a feeling? Can you find anyone that is actually feeling this feeling, or the 'vibration' simply IS?
I don’t see how the AE of feeling is thought. If I feel something hot, even if I did not have the thought to label it ‘hot’, I assume the feeling would still be there. However, there is no way I can take thought out of the equation to verify that. The vibration I referenced 'simply is' though, as you say.
What I am trying to get you to distinguish here is the following:-

1. Is this ‘feeling’ an actual ‘body’ vibration? If it is…then it is AE of sensation and not AE of aliveness/being.

2. If there is no actual ‘body’ vibration, then the ‘feeling’ is simply AE of thought. No different to “I have a feeling I left my wallet in the jacket that is in the washing machine being washed right now”. That is not an actual sensation.

3. You are identifying as that “feeling”, whether you think of it as the separate self or aliveness. This whole exploration is to see that there is no thing to identify as. How can there be when THIS/experience is the everythingness that is seemingly felt, seen, heard, tasted, smelled and thought!
Are you aware of this “feeling” 24/7, or only in moments?
I am not aware of it 24 / 7, say in deep sleep. I don’t know that I am in deep sleep, there seems to be nothing in that state.
Are you suggesting that you are aware of this feeling the entire time you are awake? I would challenge that. Check out if you can be aware of two things at once. Listen to some music that you really like, and then see if you can also be aware of this feeling at the same time as just listening to music. Let me know what you find. Did one take the backseat as the other was being awared? What happened?
If you are not aware of it constantly, every second, every minute, then is this feeling essential to know that you ARE?
I am thinking that perhaps I am confusing terms. To me, knowing that I just AM, is a feeling, a feeling of existence. Maybe feeling is not a good word to describe that. I don’t know it when I am in deep sleep though, I know nothing in deep sleep, or at least it seems that way. Therefore, maybe it is not essential.
Yes, you are confusing terms…and this is what I wanted you to see because it is very important to be clear! There is a KNOWING that you exist, and it isn’t based on any so called body vibration. Just by being aware, you already know that you exist. Do you need anything to tell you that you are, including colour, sound, smell, taste etc?
I have observed that the experience of ‘Colm’ waking up, is more like an appliance being powered up by an unknown source i.e. it just happens.
So colour is being powered up? This is all based on your being a person, Colm. Did you put any of these assumptions to the test and see if they can be evidenced as AE? There is no one going to sleep. There is awareness of absence, but never absence of awareness. The idea of sleep is also about time. That a certain amount of time has gone by. Where is the evidence of that?
Good! Now, is it a belief or is it simply an appearing thought? What does the word/label 'belief' point to as AE?
In the context of what we have discussed, there is nothing, it is all just thought. Anything in reality can’t be known. I get that conceptually, but I need to spend more time looking at it experientially.
How do you look at this experientially, other than by LOOKING to see what AE is?
And what is the AE of belief? It is simply the AE of thought. The WORD/LABEL belief cannot be anything other than thought. The word “belief” does not point to colour, smell, taste, sensation or sound. It point to thought. The thoughts about what the word is and means are all AE of thought as well, because they are all the content of the word/thought “belief”.
What is it exactly that is believing this?
Looks like a series of thoughts associated with Colm.
Yes, exactly. A series of thoughts associated to/with some 'thing' labelled as Colm, which is no different or more valuable than a series of thoughts associated to/with some thing labelled as a computer.
What is the difference between 'believing a thought' and 'not believing a thought'?
Well, I would typically have said, a thought that is believed will perhaps be actioned in some way, a thought not believed would not be actioned. However, given that thought is just happening, it’s a moot point as it all must be one thought interacting with another thought, and on and on ad infinitum.
There is no difference between them as they are both AE of thought. It's the content of the thought that differs. The 'believing thought - says something is believed', whereas the 'not believing thought says it is 'not believed'. So both are the same...the story is different.
What exactly does it feel like to be a person? Since no person is every found…then what does it feel like to be a person, or not be a person?
It feels like life, the experiences of life, sensations, feelings, thoughts, etc. Again though, that is thought tying all that together.
It “feels” like what it “feels” like now…because in this very moment there is no you reading this, as there has NEVER been a Colmself, so how could it be/feel any different? The Colm self is a conceptualised self and is something that comes and goes.
The idea that the idea of being a ‘me’ should no longer appear, is just that….an idea…a thought! Are beliefs truly held by you, or are they simply known to you as thoughts ABOUT beliefs? Are they truly deeply ingrained, or is it just a thought making that claim?
Well, it must be thought, but to say that I am now sitting here clearly as ‘no self’ would not be honest.
It seems you are waiting for the idea of the self to disappear completely. Why would it, when the idea has always been? When Santa Claus was seen to be a character and not real…what actually changed? Only your perception of him changed. Christmas still comes around, Santa is still seen on every street corner, gifts are still exchanged and Christmas Carols are still sung. In other words, life went on as usual and the seeing of Santa etc still happened, but did that make him real? All that happened is that there is now a knowing that Santa -what he is and the story about him, is just that…a story.

Colmself is a concept and concepts come and go in the show. However, there is a difference between a concept and a belief. The body, for example is a concept. To say "I am the body" is a belief. Concepts are not a problem. The concept of the body is not a problem, however the belief that you are the body or reside in a body is a problem. Why? Because the belief is that the concept 'body' refers to something that is real. What is conceptualised doesn't exist in the way it is conceptualised. To believe that concepts actually relate to what is REAL in/as experience, is a problem. So the concept of 'person' is not a problem, it is the belief that "I am a person" that is the problem because the concept of being a person is being related to as being REAL.
What I am a little confused about, is that given that the first batch of questions and the general thrust of the dialogue is to see that there is no self, the second batch clearly asks me to look and verify.

Who or what is doing the looking? Who or what is verifying that there is no self? If by the first set of questions, we are trying to establish there is no self, how can the second set have any validity, because there must be no one there to look or verify AE, just as much as there is no one there to believe in a thought story. I hope I have explained this clearly, but it was something that I can’t see clearly so wanted to ask.
Because THIS/ experience is the appearance/movement of this looking and verifying. There is no thing that THIS isn’t, however THIS never actually becomes these things just like an abstract painting never becomes the seeming abstractions within it.

When what is called a night time dream arises, are you actually IN the dream or are you simply aware of the dream? Why would what is called ‘life’ be any different?

Did you LOOK to see what was asking these questions?

Can you find anyone/anything that is LOOKING, or what can be found is the actual experience which thought strings together and makes a “believable” story out of?


Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Takamine
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Re: Looking for me

Postby Takamine » Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:07 pm

Hi Kay,

Just a short note to say that I won't get a response in for a couple of days.

A family I am close to, people I grew up with, their Mother has passed away.

I will head to my home town to spend some time with them and attend the funeral.

Thanks,

Colm.

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forgetmenot
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Re: Looking for me

Postby forgetmenot » Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:35 pm

No worries, Colm. My condolences.

Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/


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