Nityamukta

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Nityamukta
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Re: Nityamukta

Postby Nityamukta » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:16 am

Rp I went off script in my last reply. There is no I when seeing - it is just seeing. This has given rise to an odd sense of joy

My replies are brief but there isn’t a lot to be said

Nm

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ratnapani
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Re: Nityamukta

Postby ratnapani » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:13 pm

NM
Off script indeed.
I am not sure if attachment is the defining feeling when observation moves to create an I.
I don't really understand the 'observation moves to create' bit but if you are suggesting that attachment creates an ' I' then I would suggest it's the other way round. The belief in a separate self creates attachment (or aversion).

If it seems that an 'I' has been created where exactly in the body is that ? Can you pin this entity down ?
In the bus that is your life's experience where is the driver sitting?

There is no I when seeing - it is just seeing. This has given rise to an odd sense of joy
Great, I do like a bit of joy !
Having got nicely involved with that part again can you suddenly look back from 'object' to 'subject' and look for the 'see-er' ?

Rp.

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Nityamukta
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Re: Nityamukta

Postby Nityamukta » Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:39 am

Rp thank you for your reply. To answer your questions

In the bus that is your life's experience where is the driver sitting? There is no driver of the bus is just seeing, hearing etc. the driver is an habitual overlaying the five senses with ownership. Such as my feelings etc . The “I” is not located any where in the body - it does not exist. Moving from object to subject there are momentary glimpses of an “I” but is desolves rapidly when the process is slow and mindful. Nm

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ratnapani
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Re: Nityamukta

Postby ratnapani » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:10 pm

Hi NM,
The “I” is not located any where in the body - it does not exist.
Quite so but believing the"I" doesn't exist is just a belief like any other.
Moving from object to subject there are momentary glimpses of an “I”
Could that be noticing a 'sense of self' ? This is fair enough but we are hunting the entity that is running the show.

Here's another exercise you might like to try.

Raising Hand Exercise
1. Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down.
2. When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand in the air but not the other.

Don't go to thoughts, examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:-

What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing? What is it that is controlling the hand?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

Can anything be found that makes the hand move?

How is the decision made?

Rp x

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Nityamukta
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Re: Nityamukta

Postby Nityamukta » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:15 am

Rp - I am working on your exercise at the moment. It is so simple but so difficult. My silence is not inactivity. I will reply soon. Nm

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ratnapani
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Re: Nityamukta

Postby ratnapani » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:29 am

HI NM,
It is so simple but so difficult.
Brilliant ! Can you let thought chatter away like birds in a tree but be in the body and look from there ?

Rp xx

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ratnapani
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Re: Nityamukta

Postby ratnapani » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:30 pm


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Nityamukta
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Re: Nityamukta

Postby Nityamukta » Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:21 pm

Rp apologies for my slow reply. I needed time to adjust to a new perception and ways of being. The adjustment is occurring with some resistance and also pleasure. The YouTube clip is very useful - thank you. I will watch her other videos.

The hand raising exercise was also helpful. There was just experience and no identifiable I. I am trying to replicate this process in my personal interactions at work. Just speaking and watching judgements and reactions as they flow past. This is tricky as emotions have hooks that draw me in.

Nm.

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ratnapani
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Re: Nityamukta

Postby ratnapani » Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:14 am

NM,
No problem!
I needed time to adjust to a new perception and ways of being
That does sound good but are those a new state ? Has there been an 'aha' moment?
I'd not recommend more videos in case 'understanding' is implanted at the cost of open minded looking at experience.

There was just experience and no identifiable I.
Great, you couldn't see what isn't there, was 'I' ever 'there' ? Looking now that is, rather than coming to a conclusion about it.
I am trying to replicate this process in my personal interactions at work
There is no need to replicate a state, however positive.
Just speaking and watching judgements and reactions as they flow past
Great ! Is there a speaker or a watcher ?
This is tricky as emotions have hooks that draw me in.


If there are hooks then there are hooks ! What are they hooked into? Can you find that place to within a few millimetres?

Rp.

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Nityamukta
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Re: Nityamukta

Postby Nityamukta » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:37 pm

Rp I am back after feeling my way through your questions.

I had a an aha moment a couple of years ago after reading the Diamond Sutra. It stayed with me for weeks. At the moment I feel as if I am in a glass room/box looking out. I have fear that comes and goes - the glass box.

As feelings wash over me during the day I gently remind myself they are just that - feelings. Returning to experience. The emotional reactions or hooks are settling down and letting go. Over the years I have taken mind altering substances - dance parties. Reflecting on these experiences there was no experience of self only the senses. The self would. Nm

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Nityamukta
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Re: Nityamukta

Postby Nityamukta » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:44 pm

I forgot to mention. The work we are doing is really helpful and appreciated. I do feel a momentum but it is slow going. I have never been stellar but a plodder. Nm

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ratnapani
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Re: Nityamukta

Postby ratnapani » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:29 am

NM,
Rp I am back after feeling my way through your questions.
But not providing any answers ! Maybe feel your way into questions and stay there, right in the middle of them. You are not looking for answers that satisfy , not knowing is the place to be, gently looking into experience for what is or is not.

Ahas of the past are gone and leave no trace behind, ahas of the future are fresh and unconditioned by anything. Ahas in the present moment are quite ordinary.

When there is fear can you 'drop down' into the body and look for what is 'under' fear' ?

we take stuff to achieve a nicer state but here we are not looking for a state of 'no self', we are not looking for any particular state at all.

I'm glad this is appreciated.
Momentum ? Is someone going somewhere ? Who is that ?
Rp

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Nityamukta
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Re: Nityamukta

Postby Nityamukta » Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:47 pm

Thank you Rp. I am of script again. For the next week I am New Zealand - arrived yesterday.

I will keep focused and stay in the middle of the experiences. Coming back to physical sensation refocuses me - it is just experience. Nm

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Nityamukta
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Re: Nityamukta

Postby Nityamukta » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:03 pm

Rp I have watching and going deeper in to difficult emotional feelings as they arise. Especially after reading the latest guardian article. Just experiencing them slosh about and move on. Not to see an I or me in them. Some feelings do have a habital an I - some don’t. When there isn’t an I the arising feelings/emotions are sort-of like energy. Nm.

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ratnapani
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Re: Nityamukta

Postby ratnapani » Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:28 am

NM, Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I've been wondering what to say !
When there isn’t an I the arising feelings/emotions are sort-of like energy.
It sounds like good work and exploring emotional experience can be useful, especially when the self view is seen through and desire and ill will are under the microscope.
'Back to sensations' is always a good thing but I'd rather you did the exercises in a simple and direct way.

'Now there is, now there isn't an 'I' ' kind of thing is all very well but what I want to know is if there is now, ever has been or ever could be an 'I' !
Another exercise.

Word “I”

Let’s look at thought and the content of thought a little more,

Write the word "I" on a piece of paper. Look at the word, is that YOU?

Speak the word “I” silently; be aware of any sensations or responses to this word. Are any
of these reactions in your body or mind by themselves YOU?

Now say the word “I” aloud. Is that sound YOU?

Is the combination of any of these, the word, the sound, the thought YOU?” Is the thought, "I exist" you?

Is the thought "I" you?

Do let me know what you directly grock or don't grock,
Rp x


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