I want to know

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LesaD
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Re: I want to know

Postby LesaD » Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:01 am

Hello

Stream exerice-
Does it choose any of its directions?
No.
Is it even really a separate entity different from the water deposited in it, the rocks, the depressions in the ground etc?
No.
Is it even the same entity moment by moment, or more the product of weather conditions and water, like an ever-changing pattern?
It’s ever changing.
1. Can you find anywhere where "Lesa" autonomously intervenes into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements; that is not a part of the overall flow?
No.
2. Now please consider a regular decision made eg; what to wear in the morning, or what to eat for lunch, and describe to me what happens. There are environmental factors, there are colour preferences (but where did those come from - any autonomous intervention there perhaps?), practical issues (such as what is available), available time for preparation, purpose (eg; need to fill up for the day, or to look hip and cool for that person!) etc. Where in there is an autonomous entity intervening in the flow of life? Can you find someone somewhere?
No, I can’t. Just individual preferences.

I like the Open Spaciousness gal. I’ve watched her before. What she’s saying really resonates with me. :)

I think that’s the thing to do, LOOK, LOOK, and LOOK again. I hope so, anyway. Because all of this is just conceptual to me at this point. Almost like thinking about molecules. I understand that everything's made up of them, but that's not what I experience or how I think about "things" in the world.

Love,
Lesa

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Anastacia42
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Re: I want to know

Postby Anastacia42 » Sun Jul 21, 2019 1:44 pm

Good morning!

I saw somewhere in the comments that the Open Spaciousness gal's name is Lisa. ;)
I think that’s the thing to do, LOOK, LOOK, and LOOK again. I hope so, anyway. Because all of this is just conceptual to me at this point. Almost like thinking about molecules. I understand that everything's made up of them, but that's not what I experience or how I think about "things" in the world.
Yes!

So let's look in a different way.

Hand on Desk

Please close your eyes for this exercise, just notice any ‘mental’ images or thoughts that appear and put them aside.

Place a hand on a desk or table (flat surface) - Close your eyes. Now 'go to' the feeling/sensation which we would normally refer to as 'hand on desk' and answer from what you can FIND.

1) How many things do you find? Are there two things (hand and desk) or is there one thing – sensation?

2) Can a ‘feeler’ be found in 'what is being felt'?

3) Do you notice 'one thing feeling another thing'? Or is there just 'a sensation'?

4) Do you find an 'I', a body, a hand 'feeling' . . . or is there just 'a sensation'? What do you find?

Can an INHERENT FEELER be found? Would anything that is suggested as the feeler, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

LOOK then write what is true.



Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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LesaD
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Re: I want to know

Postby LesaD » Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:26 pm

Good morning!
Place a hand on a desk or table (flat surface) - Close your eyes. Now 'go to' the feeling/sensation which we would normally refer to as 'hand on desk' and answer from what you can FIND.

1) How many things do you find? Are there two things (hand and desk) or is there one thing – sensation?
At first it felt like two things but then I was able to see that there was only a sensation that I "associated" with a hand touching something.
2) Can a ‘feeler’ be found in 'what is being felt'?
No
3) Do you notice 'one thing feeling another thing'? Or is there just 'a sensation'?
Just sensation
4) Do you find an 'I', a body, a hand 'feeling' . . . or is there just 'a sensation'? What do you find?
Just sensation
Can an INHERENT FEELER be found? Would anything that is suggested as the feeler, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?
Just a concept/idea/thought
LOOK then write what is true.
“My” interface with the “world” is just a series of sensual interactions/experiences that I’ve come to "interpret" as indicating an environment through which I am moving.

This is a lot of fun!

Thanks.
Lesa

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Anastacia42
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Re: I want to know

Postby Anastacia42 » Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:26 pm

Beautiful!
LOOK then write what is true.
“My” interface with the “world” is just a series of sensual interactions/experiences that I’ve come to "interpret" as indicating an environment through which I am moving.
Yes!

Today keep LOOKING in this way every time you think of it. Any time you touch anything. (maybe not while driving)

Keep LOOKING & write tomorrow what is true.


Loving!
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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LesaD
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Re: I want to know

Postby LesaD » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:23 am

Hey Kid.
Today keep LOOKING in this way every time you think of it. Any time you touch anything. (maybe not while driving)

Keep LOOKING & write tomorrow what is true.
I’ve had a really rough day. I’m struggling with a painting that’s not working out and have a few other things occupying my mind. I’ve been able to focus on this a few times, but its especially difficult today. The good thing is that when I can focus, I’ve been able to just go to the sensations and drop the thoughts about them. Will try again tomorrow.

I keep thinking about someone, Jed McKenna or David Carse, saying that if you push against your thoughts, you just enliven them, or something to that effect. It's so hard to just "be". But I did have a few great moments today, just being with the dogs in the woods, feeling the rain, seeing the beauty...

the thing

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Anastacia42
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Re: I want to know

Postby Anastacia42 » Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:44 am

I hear you... you can focus on the uncomfortable and painful sensations, also. If you read Jed McKenna, you know that this may be no picnic.

Loving... what is,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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LesaD
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Re: I want to know

Postby LesaD » Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:49 am

Had a very interesting day. Woke up feeling pretty good and decided to go into the mountains and huckleberry with the dogs. Everything went wrong--almost ran out of gas, temp was in the mid 90's, even though the weather forecast was for 77 degrees, went to look at some property I was interested in and it was a big disappointment, lots of garbage in my head about my husband, terrible pain in my feet, poor little run over ground squirrel in the road. Somewhere along the way I began LOOKING and noticing the sensations--without the stories--realizing that life was just happening, not happening to anyone. Watching how automatically this body drove the car through the winding mountain roads. Lots of "bad" things happened today and yet the dogs were delightful, the huckleberries were delicious and plentiful, the sky was amazingly blue, the forest was beautiful, and I got home and sat out on my covered deck with a wine cooler and watched the most amazing summer storm. The "bad stuff" JUST HAPPENED a second ago, and the "good stuff" JUST HAPPENED a second ago. It had that weird "no time" feeling that often happens to me, all day. There was no time all day! Just happenings in the moment. A whole day went by with lots of events, yet it all JUST HAPPENED. Pretty neat.

Lesa

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Anastacia42
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Re: I want to know

Postby Anastacia42 » Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:10 pm

Lesa, that is just beautiful!

Was any "self," or "me" or "I" found? Is there now?

LOOK and write what is found. Write what is true.

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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LesaD
Posts: 60
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:38 pm

Re: I want to know

Postby LesaD » Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:46 pm

Good morning!
Was any "self," or "me" or "I" found? Is there now?

LOOK and write what is found. Write what is true.
The only time there was awareness of a self, me, or I was was when I was annoyed by a problem. Then, once I just started LOOKING, they disappeared. I kept thinking about the way they were all caused by the mind, and that the only real thing there was "aliveness". Back to the routine of everyday life. Trying to LOOK more throughout the day. When I stop and force LOOKING, there is still only "aliveness" experiencing.

Love,
Lesa

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Anastacia42
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Re: I want to know

Postby Anastacia42 » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:22 pm

Hi!

Yes, right.
The only time there was awareness of a self, me, or I was was when I was annoyed by a problem. Then, once I just started LOOKING, they disappeared.
Yes, we only "get annoyed" when we imagine some "separate self."


Introductory Body Exercise

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes.

Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is?

Does the body have a weight or volume? In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside?

If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?

If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question.

Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc) before replying.

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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LesaD
Posts: 60
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:38 pm

Re: I want to know

Postby LesaD » Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:17 am

Hi there.

Introductory Body Exercise
Can it be known how tall the body is?
No.
Does the body have a weight or volume? In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?
No.
Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Can't really tell. There are sensations where the body "touches" the clothing. For some reason this is hard. After LOOKING several times today, there appears to be no boundary.
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?
Again, there is sensation that I've come to think of as a "boundary" but no real boundary.
Is there an inside or an outside?
No.
What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
Sensations
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?
Sensations. There's really nothing there! Love this!

Lesa

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Anastacia42
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Re: I want to know

Postby Anastacia42 » Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:47 am

Great! I had a feeling you would enjoy that one after the one before period.

Here's another for more gun. Let ne know what is found.

Deeper Body Investigation

Here is an even deeper investigation of the body.

Please follow each step, don't leave out any. Take your time. Don't move to the next step until the previous one is clearly seen.

Repeat the exercise several times.

Stand in front of a bigger mirror.

(1) First, close the eyes and feel the sensations labelled ‘body’.

(2) Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations. Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror? Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?

(3) While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror. Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

(4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror. Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’? Or only thoughts suggest it?

(5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror. Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’? Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all? Or are there only colours and shapes?

(6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen. Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

(7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts)

Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

(8) Start to walk slowly. Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations? Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all? Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’? Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’? Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

(9) Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?



Loving!
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

User avatar
Anastacia42
Posts: 1178
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 3:04 am
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Re: I want to know

Postby Anastacia42 » Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:56 pm

Hey, good morning!

Busy weekend?

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

User avatar
LesaD
Posts: 60
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:38 pm

Re: I want to know

Postby LesaD » Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:41 pm

Good morning!
Stand in front of a bigger mirror.

(1) First, close the eyes and feel the sensations labelled ‘body’.

(2) Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations. Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror?
No connections.
Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?
Just thoughts and mental images.
(3) While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror. Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?
No.
(4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror. Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’? Or only thoughts suggest it?
There seems to be a connection. No matter how many times I do this, for some reason there always seems to be a real connection. I think it’s the multi sensory input. It’s easier to see beyond the “idea” of a body in a location when I’m not looking directly at the body parts.
5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror. Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’? Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all? Or are there only colours and shapes?
Only colors and shapes.
(6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen. Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?
Just thoughts to suggest so.
7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts)

Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?
Just thoughts and sensations.
8) Start to walk slowly. Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations? Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all? Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
Just thoughts about walking and sensations to back up the thoughts.
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Just thoughts about a body.
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?
No.
(9) Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?
Only an image labeled “room” and appearing sensations, unless I look at the body, then it snaps back into "my body going through the room". I can do it if I'm just seeing the "environment" changing, and feeling the other sensations, but once I look at the body walking through the room, too, it becomes "real".

Frustrated.
But love ya!
Lesa

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LesaD
Posts: 60
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Re: I want to know

Postby LesaD » Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:43 pm

Just saw your "long weekend?" post this morning. Yes! Lots going on. I have 3 jobs.
Still very interested in LU. Just might take a couple days sometimes to repost.

Thanks.
Lesa


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