Process of Awakening

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SynchroNous1
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Re: Process of Awakening

Postby SynchroNous1 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:05 am

so you cant find anything of this in direct experience: no lack, no separation.
you find sensation, pain and sadness. This is, what you can realy see here and now.
How do you know for sure, that the pain and sadness is because you are separated from god?
What if pain and sadness is because you BELIEF you are separated and you don't SEE that all is and ever was one whole flow united in god?
All "proofs" we find is thought and beliefing others (again thought).

And then please look for this I that seems seperated. Look in direct experience and describe what you find. What is this seperated I that can be more ore less united with god?
I do not know for sure that the pain and sadness is due to separation from God. I assume so as I know God is my only love and so pain is what one feels when separated from deep love. Otherwise what is the pain about?
There is no proof of separation in direct experience. From reading and listening to spiritual teachers, I am continually informed that there are more or less advanced stages of unity with God. So I assume pain comes from less advancement. Since spiritual teachers know more than I do should I not believe them?
I do not find an "I" but pain and doubt do continue.... I admit that these exchanges with you has decreased the pain and doubt but it is not fully gone. There are respected spiritual teachers who are in advanced stages -- so I find it hard to let go that there is only one stage of awakening and unity... I (or whatever the "I" is) is still looking for advancement.

Thank you for your help. I truly am grateful to you.
AB

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Verananda
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Re: Process of Awakening

Postby Verananda » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:59 am

I do not know for sure that the pain and sadness is due to separation from God. I assume so as I know God is my only love and so pain is what one feels when separated from deep love. Otherwise what is the pain about?
What if pain and sadness is because you BELIEF you are separated and you don't SEE that all is and ever was one whole flow united in god?
So I assume pain comes from less advancement.
... or pain comes from BELIEFING in beeing less advanced instead of LOOKING what is true?

And because we can only speculate and assume when we try to understand by thought, we LOOK for what is true.
I (or whatever the "I" is) is still looking for advancement.
yes, thats the important question. What is this I?
If you don't find something, what then would it be that can advance, step up stages, or unite with something other?

Love Ve

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SynchroNous1
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Re: Process of Awakening

Postby SynchroNous1 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:21 am

What if pain and sadness is because you BELIEF you are separated and you don't SEE that all is and ever was one whole flow united in god?
Yes that may be true. Does this mean that whatever I experience as the ground of being IS the full unity in God?
... or pain comes from BELIEFING in beeing less advanced instead of LOOKING what is true?
And because we can only speculate and assume when we try to understand by thought, we LOOK for what is true.
By looking at what is true, does this mean that the emptiness/fullness that I experience IS full unity in God?
What is this I?
If you don't find something, what then would it be that can advance, step up stages, or unite with something other?
That is true I do not find an "I" or I find a human self that I know is temporary, shifting. Is it the human self that is seeking advancement? Why can I not let go of this nagging pain/doubt/seeking advancement?

Thank you
AB

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Verananda
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Re: Process of Awakening

Postby Verananda » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:22 am

Yes that may be true. Does this mean that whatever I experience as the ground of being IS the full unity in God?
It means that whatever I experience is just this experience. Everything else is thought. This thogugh, that thought, we might find more possible explanations or reasons for this pain. All thought. What I point to is: LOOK. Don't belief any thought. Not the guru, the advanced one, not me, not your long hold beliefs. LOOK for what is true!
I can't tell you what is true. My job is pointing, so you can SEE what is true instead of beliefing anything!
By looking at what is true, does this mean that the emptiness/fullness that I experience IS full unity in God?
It means that the emptiness/fullness is just the experience of emptiness/fullness.
You have not found separation in direct experience, nothing that is seperated from something else.
We can call it unity. Just another lable.
Experience is just experience.
Thought try to make something out of it. Telling storries. No proof.
Nothing wrong with it. It is just thought.
Seeking stops when it is seen that there is nothing to find and no one who can achive anything.
Scratching the mosquito bite again and again would not let it heal.
And again: Don't belief me. LOOK!
Is it the human self that is seeking advancement?
Look in direct experience for this seeking. What do you find?
Why can I not let go of this nagging pain/doubt/seeking advancement?
Look in direct experience for this "nagging pain/doubt/seeking advancement". What do you find? What is experience and what is thought content? Is there more than this experience? Do you find any "I/me" that is experiencing?

Love Ve

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SynchroNous1
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Re: Process of Awakening

Postby SynchroNous1 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:38 pm

Dear Ve

You have helped me a lot. Now I need to be aware of what you have pointed out and just be.
Maybe I should let some time pass and if I have trouble and confusion again, I will come back to you?
Thank you so much.
In gratitude,
AB

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Verananda
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Re: Process of Awakening

Postby Verananda » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:58 pm

what about this seeking energy at the moment? has something changed? tell me about .....

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SynchroNous1
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Re: Process of Awakening

Postby SynchroNous1 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:50 am

what about this seeking energy at the moment? has something changed? tell me about .....
The seeking energy has quietened down. I am unable to say whether it is completely gone. But the pain has gone down a lot and I am more relaxed. I feel soft, a bit like a baby and a bit blank-like energy. Thats is all I can tell at the moment. Not sure -- but for the moment it is better.

There is one question I have and I wonder if you can help me as you have done so far.
I have been an avid meditator for years for a few hours in the early mornings. The desire for such long meditation session has been going down over the past few months. Meditation session has become briefer... but it is also true that I am generally "in and out" throughout the day -- I don't know how else to put it.
The part that bothers me is: When I wake up in the morning I experience "sadness" as if I have left something nice and entering something painful. And this questioning... "meditate? Do I have to?... I must...etc:". I do get up and go on to meditate for some time.. and it is always wonderful like "coming home"... from where I am "coming home" I have no idea. But this first morning sadness and irritating questioning .... is a really bad way to wake up. I can't shake it off but I dont like it at all.... find it disturbing and now I dread this morning waking up.

Thank you very much for your help and questions.
In gratitude
AB

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Verananda
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Re: Process of Awakening

Postby Verananda » Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:57 pm

The seeking energy has quietened down
fine. just look what is happening next days .... no expectation. just be curious about!

Its good that you become relaxed with your meditation sessions. If they become briefer, it is how it is .....
But this first morning sadness and irritating questioning .... is a really bad way to wake up. I can't shake it off but I dont like it at all.... find it disturbing and now I dread this morning waking up.
suffering happens when we want things other as they are.
you dont like it and want to shake it off, sounds a bit linke fightig against what is.
I would suggest, be curious about what is. Be with this sadness.
Investigate with the curiousity of a new born baby.
Is this sadness sensation? Where do you feel it? Are there thoughts around it? Is it stable or chaning?
Investigate it without trying to change it or get rid of it!
Its a bit like embracing your biggest enemy!
If resistance comes up to that, embrace the resistance, investigate the resistance.
It is about embracing everythig that is here and now.
Can you feel the aliveness in it?

And tell me about what you find!

Love Ve

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SynchroNous1
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Re: Process of Awakening

Postby SynchroNous1 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:59 am

Dear Ve

I am just being the way I am learning...
I will stay with this for a few days and see how it is... and come back to you to share.

Thank you so much. In gratitude
AB

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Verananda
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Re: Process of Awakening

Postby Verananda » Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:25 pm

fine! Looking forward to your sharing! Love Ve

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SynchroNous1
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Re: Process of Awakening

Postby SynchroNous1 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:22 pm

Dear Ve

I am writing after some time to share.

I am more relaxed and the urgent seeking is more or less gone. I do find myself occasionally in a state of wondering about "advancing". But then again, I realise that what is, is what is... and to be in that and appreciate.

During "sadness" or morning when I wake up and feel sad... I just let it be as it is.. The "sadness" feeling does not necessarily go away but I am less attached to it, or wondering about it.

Moments of doubt come... they come as I write this also.... but I watch and let it be.

I do feel more peaceful and relaxed.

Thank you and in gratitude.
AB

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SynchroNous1
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Re: Process of Awakening

Postby SynchroNous1 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:46 am

Dear Ve

I am able to see where thoughts arise more clearly.... desiring "more" enlightenment is also a thought and a product of the mind causing agitation.
I am more able to rest in what is.
It seems that vigilance is needed to realise that all thoughts are thoughts... even if the thought its about spirituality/ enlightenment.

Thank you. With deep gratitude,
AB

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Verananda
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Re: Process of Awakening

Postby Verananda » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:29 pm

Hi AB,

sound great!

So is there anything else you want to look at?
Anything else you want to adress?

Love Ve

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SynchroNous1
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Re: Process of Awakening

Postby SynchroNous1 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:18 am

Dear Ve

I am fine now I think. I cannot express enough gratitude for how you have helped me.

I am amazed that a space like LU exists.. immense gratitude to all of you.

If you think I can help in any way please let me know. I would really like to contribute to help others if I can.

Love and gratitude,
AB

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Verananda
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Re: Process of Awakening

Postby Verananda » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:52 am

Hi AB

we have 6 final questions. I put them in here. If you want to answere them we could look if there is anything more uncleare or needs to look at .....

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
b) What makes things happen? How does it work?
c) What are you responsible for?
d) Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

looking forward to your answers :-)
love ve


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