Process of Awakening

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SynchroNous1
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Process of Awakening

Postby SynchroNous1 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:00 pm

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand that my sense of human self exists as I have a human body. But in actuality this sense is false. I am not this self. I am emptiness – that is how I experience the inner silence. I am expanded emptiness which is also dynamic and everything.

What are you looking for at LU?
I have been unable to find an experienced guide with whom I can have an honest discussion and assessment of the depth of my realisation. The way I experience the expanded emptiness which is also everything -- how to assess this. I hear and am told that waking up is an infinite process. I understand that. Nevertheless there are different levels as I see. In the last few years, I have had realisations and revelations; my life has turned upside down and I am peaceful and content. But I am also still seeking or am I?…. I am confused. How is that?

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect an honest assessment from a guided conversation and some suggestions. I come because I am unable to find a forum where I can talk freely to a guide who will focus on the question of self / no-self and help assess where I am at.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have been consciously meditating and following a spiritual practice for 14 years. Born a Hindu, became an externally-professing atheist but remaining spiritual inside (I realise in retrospect), and now openly a spiritual practitioner. I primarily began with Tibetan Buddhism 14 years ago, meditated and also practised different methods of introspection. In 2017 I had a huge acceleration and was guided synchronistically to a Vedanta teacher from whom I took Kriya. I practise Kriya and meditate. I have had huge shifts since 2017.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

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Verananda
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Re: Process of Awakening

Postby Verananda » Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:49 pm

Hi SynchroNous1,

welcome to Liberation Unleashed. Glad you made it here.
I am Ve and I can be your guide if that's okay with you.
Should I call you SynchroNous1 or is there another name you would prefer?


Here are some arrangements we make to work together:

First I want to ask you to check out the Quote-Function. This will assist us in having a clear dialogue around the questions and answers. You can see here how it works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ

During our conversation I will ask you a series of questions. For each, you will look at your own direct experience (DE) and answer with 100% honesty.

During this guiding, please avoid any other teachings, spiritual books, writings, YouTube videos or talks. If you have a meditation practice, feel free to continue with it as usual. It is best to avoid analyzing, speculation and debate. The mind will try to create distraction.

Please make an effort to write here every day or at least every second. This works best if we keep a constant focus on looking. If you are unable to do this on occasion, or you need more time for looking just let me know. I'll do the same for you.


Do you agree with this?

Looking forward to our talk,
Ve

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SynchroNous1
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:58 pm

Re: Process of Awakening

Postby SynchroNous1 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:49 am

I am Ve and I can be your guide if that's okay with you.
Should I call you SynchroNous1 or is there another name you would prefer?
Glad to meet you Ve. You can call me AB.

Do you agree with this?
Yes I agree with this.

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Verananda
Posts: 888
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:14 am

Re: Process of Awakening

Postby Verananda » Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:35 pm

Hi AB,

fine, so lets start!

First I want you to check the quote function again until it works as in my posts. Just try out ......
It make it easier to read the posts ....
assessment of the depth of my realisation.
What do you expect from such an assessment, from knowing the "depth"?
What would be different when this would be successful?
Nevertheless there are different levels as I see.
Is this experience or is it thought?
In the last few years, I have had realisations and revelations; my life has turned upside down and I am peaceful and content.
please tell about! what happend? what changed?
But I am also still seeking or am I?…. I am confused. How is that?
Thats interresting ... so it seems something is missing?
what is missing?
how do you percieve this seeking energie? what is it?

Love Ve

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SynchroNous1
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Re: Process of Awakening

Postby SynchroNous1 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:51 am

What do you expect from such an assessment, from knowing the "depth"?
What would be different when this would be successful?
I experience the expanded emptiness/fullness. I sense there is more as I feel this realisation is only touching the “surface” so to speak. I feel a bottomless depth and yet I feel I am at the “surface”. I need help to understand this.
When this is successful, I hope I will have some idea of the state I am in. I sense this is a state that can further expand and deepen – this is my understanding from myself as well as talking to others about their experiences.
Is this experience or is it thought?
The different levels that I think exist – is what I have learned from conversations and readings about other people’s spiritual journeys, especially advanced practitioners and teachers. I have myself experienced different aspects of higher energy / emptiness / fullness – I don’t think of my experiences as “levels” but rather as “aspects”. But I when I learn about advanced teachers’ states, I get a sense of “levels”.
please tell about! what happend? what changed?
I have experienced Shakti (in forms of female deities that I remember from childhood memories) physically, emotionally and through sound that have shaken my foundations. I have felt the gentle touch and love of Krishna,his humour and playful teaching. I have experienced ancient, deepest waves of love that have left me crying. I have been guided strongly and insistently to meditate at certain hours and in certain ways that have left me in awe and gratitude. I have been guided to teachers that I desperately needed. I have been guided to knowledge that I absolutely lacked or had forgotten. And so many synchronicities, taking back to sensations and memories that I cannot claim as only confined to this lifetime –although I have not had any exposure to past lifetimes – only a sense that some of what I experience cannot be based on this life’s experience as the depth of emotion is shattering. I have been strongly led to purification of negativities -- which seems to be work in progress. I could go on more but I stop as this communication form is limited.
At this point, my experiences have “calmed” down so to speak – not so dramatic. It is quieter and expansive with an indication of depth – but somewhere I feel stuck I think.
Thats interresting ... so it seems something is missing?
what is missing?
how do you percieve this seeking energie? what is it?
Yes something is missing or something is waiting to be revealed further. I used to feel tremendous and painful yearnings – and this has lessened. I feel a resignation like – Oh well, what is, is what is. It is not in my human power; these desires are egoic; no point in feeling like this. But I cannot shake off the dissatisfaction behind the resignation.
I am certainly still seeking. I feel somehow that I am stuck. I vacillate between resignation, low dissatisfaction to strong dissatisfaction, to strong yearning, giving up and back again. I feel the lack of a deeper experience – this cannot be all there is -- is what I feel.
Yet, I have to admit, I feel guided – books, teachers, assistance, situation arrive in helpful ways all the time. But I feel a lack of something deeper, more connected.
My meditation has become of shorter duration – which is not a problem I think. These days, my attention and “yearning” is constant through the day – so in a way, I don’t have to meditate to focus on God/inner self/ universal energy/whatever one calls. I do meditate regularly however.

Thank you for your help. In gratitude, AB.

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Verananda
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Re: Process of Awakening

Postby Verananda » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:36 pm

I feel a bottomless depth and yet I feel I am at the “surface”
what happens if you do nothing with this "bottomless depth"? No wanting, no changing? just surrender to what is?
The different levels that I think exist – is what I have learned from conversations and readings about other people’s spiritual journeys, especially advanced practitioners and teachers. I have myself experienced different aspects of higher energy / emptiness / fullness – I don’t think of my experiences as “levels” but rather as “aspects”. But I when I learn about advanced teachers’ states, I get a sense of “levels”.
that sound a lot like "hearing from others" and that can bulid up huge beliefs and expectations.
did you experience different levels?
or would you say there are different states: wonderfull and blissful ones, pleasend and unpleasend one, more expanded or contracted, etc ....?
... different states that come and go ...?

who is it, who could reach a level or a state?
But I feel a lack of something deeper, more connected.
what could be more connected to what? Is there someone who can connect to something?

Love Ve

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SynchroNous1
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Re: Process of Awakening

Postby SynchroNous1 » Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:06 am

what happens if you do nothing with this "bottomless depth"? No wanting, no changing? just surrender to what is?
Its embracing and comforting. But there is still a feeling that there is more and I am still seeking / waiting. I can ask "who is waiting" but fact remains there is a waiting; I am waiting for more.
that sound a lot like "hearing from others" and that can bulid up huge beliefs and expectations.
did you experience different levels?
or would you say there are different states
It IS "hearing from others". But centuries of writing and experiences... I have learned a lot from them; there is truth to some of this. I cannot totally discount them just because I learn about them from reading and talking.
I don't experience "levels" but "states". Some "states" are always there or recurring. Others are totally unique.
I do feel that there are "levels"... as I read and learn about centuries and contemporary practices and experiences. I equate these "levels" with more depth, more expansiveness, more...
who is it, who could reach a level or a state?
When I am in different "states" I fall out of a sense of "I" -- I am one with "what is". But there is also a waiting for a deepening and expanding of "what is" as if it has only begun unfolding and so there is much more....so there is a waiting and wanting.
what could be more connected to what? Is there someone who can connect to something?
Yes this is confusing, I know what you are asking. I dont know. All I know is "what is" goes deeper and more expansive and there is a "waiting" and "yearning" for that and that is painful.

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Verananda
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Re: Process of Awakening

Postby Verananda » Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:22 pm

what would be left when all this "waiting" and "yearning" has fallen away?

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SynchroNous1
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Re: Process of Awakening

Postby SynchroNous1 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:35 am

what would be left when all this "waiting" and "yearning" has fallen away?
What is left is "what is". In whatever way "what is" is "what is". But it feels like it's the surface and not deeper. And the dissatisfaction continues. I am repeating myself full circle again.

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Verananda
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Re: Process of Awakening

Postby Verananda » Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:49 pm

Hi AB,

so now we are aware of your expectations what having the realisation may look like or feel like. Expectations have a habit of getting in the way of the exploration and blind siding the fact that the realisation has happened. There is nothing to be done with expectations other than to be aware of them and any others that appear as we move through this exploration.

Expectations of any kind, and attachment to outcomes, are what create the idea of suffering. Also be aware that when desired expectations are not met, fear, anger, resistance, resentment, frustration can arise. Let me know if and when this happens so we can look at them together.

What I offer you is an exploration of "what is" is "what is" in direct experience to "break through your repeating cycle". That means you have to put all your ideas of realisation, all you have read and heard, all your concepts of states, levels and deepening beside. We explore here and now with the curiosity of a newborn baby. I will give you some pointers and exercises. You look and report. It is realy simple but powerfull. How does that sound to you? Are you willing to explore?

Love Ve

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SynchroNous1
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Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:58 pm

Re: Process of Awakening

Postby SynchroNous1 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:53 am

I will give you some pointers and exercises. You look and report. It is realy simple but powerfull. How does that sound to you? Are you willing to explore?
Yes thank you I am.
With gratitude,
AB

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Verananda
Posts: 888
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:14 am

Re: Process of Awakening

Postby Verananda » Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:08 am

ok, so first we start with what is direct (or actual) experience:

Have a look at an apple. If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise.
Image

When looking at an apple, there's colour; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought
saying, "I'm looking at an apple."
What is known for sure? Colour is known and thoughts are known.
What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?
Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just
more thought. Actual experience is sound, thought, colour, smell, taste, sensation.
Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?
While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual
experience.
This is what is meant by ‘looking in actual experience ‘. What you know for sure, and, is
always here.

Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known
Colour labelled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?


It is essential that you realy do all these experiments. Don't just thing about and find logical answeres.
Do it with the simplicity and curiosity if you would not know anything.
And then report back what comes up while doing .....

Love Ve

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SynchroNous1
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Re: Process of Awakening

Postby SynchroNous1 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:11 pm

What is known for sure? Colour is known and thoughts are known.
What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?
I used an apple.
Thoughts describe the look of the apple -- this apple has a curved stem, etc. Its skin is a little wrinkled here and there.
Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?
In actual experience, there is no thing "called apple". Naming of apple comes out of thought.
However, is an apple actually known?
In actual experience there is no "naming of apple". Its just there.

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Verananda
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Re: Process of Awakening

Postby Verananda » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:07 am

In actual experience there is no "naming of apple". Its just there.
How do you know "Its just there"? - We will have a closer look with the next exercise:

Take the apple again, look at it, sense it, eat it ... and describe in more detail what is actually experienced (colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought).
Do it like this:
Seeing the apple = image/colour
Feeling the surface of the apple = sensation
smelling it = smell
touching apple with the nose while smelling = sensation
Thought about how it would taste = thought
......
now do your own list and send it to me ....

You can do this exercise as many times throughout the day with whatever you doing. Label daily activities simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought. Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual/direct experience) and report back how you go.

Love Ve

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SynchroNous1
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Re: Process of Awakening

Postby SynchroNous1 » Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:19 am

This is what I did - not sure if this is what you mean?

1) Water in a glass
Colour / image – transparent, liquidy, glimmering
Taste – tasteless
Sensation - soft, liquidy, wet
Thought – beautiful water

2) Date
Colour / image -- Dark brown, wrinkled
Smell – sweet
Taste – chewy, sweet
Sensation – solid, soft
Thought – I like the date

3) Candleholder
Colour image – golden, curved
Sensation – cool glass
Smell -- no smell
Thought – beautiful for holding candle


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