I mean the presence of the thought is automatically known. Or another way to say it is...there is a knowing that comes with thought.What do you mean by ‘there is inherent knowing within all thoughts”? Do you mean that as soon as a thought is there it’s that the presence of that thought is automatically known? OR do you mean that the thought itself knows things?No, thought 1 doesn't need thought 2. There is inherent knowing within all thoughts. We can agree on this.
Ok fair enough. But something is aware and produced thought 2. (more on this below)Just because thought 2 makes a claim that “there was a thought present about coffee” – it doesn’t mean that this thought was aware or new about the presence of the previous thought.
I do see the difference. I still get caught up on how thought 2 came to exist then. Here's why. If thoughts are contained to themselves with no awareness of other thoughts, then there's a greater awareness that is aware all thoughts.So we are focusing on the thought-ness aspect of the thought, and not what the thought is about.
Can you see the difference?
I'm not trying to get caught up in the content, but instead on the phenomenon of how this development of thoughts can start with basic info and build upon it, much like pattern recognition and mathematics. Some awareness had to take info from an experience that already happened in the past and apply it to a new one in the present. And if thoughts are not aware themselves...I wonder what is?
I see the difference. Thoughts cannot be aware themselves. Thanks for making this clear.but rather I ask you to focus on the pure phenomena of those thoughts, and look and see if thought 2 is an aware entity that can observe or witness other thoughts.
Can you see the difference?
So, does thought 2 is an aware entity that is observing thought 1? – don’t think, but rather look if it can be literally seen/observed/witnessed that thought 2 is observing thought 1?
I think the example just given about what is that phenomenon that knows past thoughts/experiences and can incorporate them into the present moment is what I was trying to point to...this aware-ing presence or awareness.Does my above explanation about zooming out of the content and looking at the pure thought itself help with this confusion?
If not, could you please write some examples? But please, be as precise in your description as you can.
Yeah yeah yeah...we can't expect old habits to die suddenly :D:) :) :) Do you see how you replied to my comments about ‘seems like’/ ‘feels like’?
You have fallen to the same trap I was trying to point out.
I see what you mean. How do we know anything is true then since the contents of thoughts cannot be trusted?Truth cannot be felt. Since truth is a concept. Concepts cannot be felt. Concepts appear only as the content of thoughts. Can you see this?
After looking, I confirmed thoughts are not self-aware.And does a thought actually know what it’s talking about?
If you say yes, it mean that thoughts are aware entities with self-reflection ability.
But are they so? – don’t try to solve this logically, rather let a thought come, and LOOK at the thought as a ‘container’ and see if the thought itself is self-aware
I meant since there is an awareness present that thoughts are like containers, the awareness is more real than the content inside those containers. Containers and their contents come and go, but awareness is always present and steady.Contents are not real because there is an awareness? – what do you mean by that? What does awareness have to do with the realness of the content?
Not to say I still stand behind this comment. I can see the phenomenon of thoughts more clearly after reading your comments and looking into them.
Well good! Looking at experience directly seems like a healthier way to escape one's mind compared to other methodologies (ok ok another use of "seems"...but this is one doesn't count :p)I wouldn’t say guilty. I would rather say that you don’t know (yet) how to look at experience directly. But this can be learned just any other skill.
These are very good questions. This is what you have to look for.
This is awesome. We are on the same page. Very clear :)So we are looking if we can FIND an ACTUAL ‘ME’ that thoughts are talking about.
If there is ACTUAL ME/SELF behind the word ‘me’.
Is this clear?
I'm gonna pause here for now and practice some more looking before continuing onto the next section.
Have a good rest of your day,