So investigate the basic assumption of this fear, that there is something that could die or disappear. But is this really true?
Find the ‘thing’ that SUPPOSEDLY could be annihilated or could disappear. Where is this ‘thing’?
I can experience sensations and thoughts, but i can not find a separate me except within a thought or as a thought, and that is not the thing i feel will be annihilated.
Is there a dividing line between the sensation and the knowing of it?
It was hard not to draw on memory as this was seen some days ago---for the first time. It did happen again, now, but it "flickers,' sensation and the knowing of it was seen as the same thing, but only for a few seconds, then a thought would 'jump in' and say: "There it is! (LOL) And, then the next thought was: "I did it!" hahaha. then i would begin thinking of something that's not related to what you're asking and that was noticed and then it seemed like I made a choice to try and see no division again; this went on for some minutes. I just noticed that i typed, 'i began thinking.' i know that's not true; it seems like something here doesn't want to give up its power, or the illusion of power.
Are there 2 things present, a sensation + knowing of it?
Not when looking at AE. Only when paying attention to thoughts, does it seem like 2 separate things, and not always then either, sometimes there are no thoughts or feelings of separation or no separation of those two things.
What is it exactly that felt separate from the thought? – find it
The sense of I, which feels like the body right now, but then sensations are actually experienced in the body, and it's seen that that is not me, then the sense of 'me,' says, "I'm here in the head," and that feels like 'me.' This is crazy...when it's seen that i'm not in the body, then it feels like i'm in the head, then when it's seen i'm not in the head, i feel like i'm the body again....over and over, back and forth, back and forth.
What is it EXACTLY that is identifying with the body?
A thought. Thoughts keep saying things like this. Now, a couple of seconds later, another thought says: thoughts are telling ME these things. Geeze, so i'm right back to: what, who, or where is this 'me?' Yes, hundreds of times a day i must ask, maybe thousands!!
“I strongly identify with the body” – what does the word ‘I’ point to in this sentence? – look, don’t think
I'm laughing now because 'i' keep using the word, "i" when "I've" seen clearly there is no separate I, but it sure does feel like there is one. Back to your question: Probably almost 10 minutes go by.......Sensations in the body.
“I feel like it’s all happening to a separate me” – body how does this ACTUALLY felt?
Sometimes it feels like suffering--mental and physical anguish/pain, and other times it feels mentally and physically pleasant. If I got into the specifics of it, i would label the specific sensations in the body and the thoughts 'in the head' and no further commentary would follow such as, pleasant, unpleasant, good, bad, etc. When a story is believed it usually brings physical sensations labeled as fear or calm, love, etc.
So where is this separate self to which thing happening to?
I'm right back where i was a few questions ago. Thoughts say, "right here in the head, or the body, but then it's noticed that's a thought or a sensation, but then who or what is noticing and then saying, "That's just a thought." So some thoughts point directly to AE, and can be trusted yes? And, others---most others are lies? Noticing of thoughts is happening when they point to AE and noticing of thoughts is also happening when fear kicks in.
Sentences starting with “feels like” or “seems like” are just analogies. Just thought speculations. Can you see this?
Yes, i can see this; this is my way of letting you know where i think i'm stuck. :)
Just because there is a body, what makes the body YOU?
Nothing really; thoughts are there to protect some sense of a separate self...what it looks like, i'm actually looking or if this is another thought. Once in a while, anymore, it's not always clear if seeing of AE is happening or seeing thoughts is happening.
But WHAT is it EXACTLY that is identifying with the body? – find it!
The sense of 'I' which is seen as thoughts and sensations in the body, .....how can a thought identify with the body? Thoughts tell stories...some stories are fiction and some thoughts are true? yes? no? Is the thought a belief only, or is there something here that believes the thought or doesn't believe thought? ......Noticing of 'truth'/reality can happen and noticing of BS can also happen. I still have not answered your great question....(i was gone all day, i really did not want to leave, i wanted to sit with these questions, but pondered the first two questions throughout the day....had a moment when everything seen and heard was experienced differently....kind of like anew, simple, wondrous and i just began to laugh. Anyway, I want to get to all the questions...i'm stuck on this one. Wait...Nothing is identifying with the body, there is only a thought that says because i have a body, i am a separate self, or "I" exist. I wonder if, or how the brain has to do with all of this......next question
What does the sensation (of the body) has to do with believing the thought “that is me”?
Nothing, it is another thought that 'says' that they are tied together, and that thought is not challenged...but who or what challenges the thought? .....Now this is a thought from memory: Challenging just happens. Looks like a game...the I thought just keeps popping up kind of like the game where you bop some kind animal's head down a hole, and it just pops up in a different hole as soon as you hit it on the head.
The body is a body, a sensation is a sensation. A thought ‘that is me’ is just a thought. But where is THE ME?
The "I" thought makes things personal. There is some kind of awareness or consciousness here, but there's a thought that says, "That's me, that awareness, that thing that experiences things is me." It pops up after the experience. but what keeps believing it? it's the conditioning...the default, or it's just going unchallenged?
Then find the looker. Where is the looker exactly? – localize it
Funny...now there is a thought that says: "SOMETHING here is looking." Clever...trying not to personalize it now...but thoughts can't personalize anything. Does the "I" thought appear between two thoughts?? Does the I thought disappear after one thought, and reappear after another thought? .....(time passes) Looking is happening, sometimes the "I" thought appears and 'owns' it, and other times it does not.
Is there a dividing line between whatever is noticed and the noticing?
At first it seems this way because AE is not happening and the "I" thought pops up and makes two things out of one, but when paying attention to AE 'reality' is seen, or that which is experience without an experiencer. Well, it looks like AE is happening, it's just missed because the "I" thought comes up sooooo quickly, almost immediately after AE....maybe during AE.....maybe same time as AE
Are there two things there, a ‘thing noticed’ + noticing itself?
It looks like they arise at the same time, THEY indicates two, I am not looking.
So just because thoughts suggest that the ‘I’ feels like thoughts and sensations, does this magically transforms thoughts and sensations into a ME?
How thoughts and sensations are transformed into a ME?
Conditioning. Belief in the thoughts, assuming what others said was true, not challenging the validity of thoughts, not looking closely at AE. I believe that answer comes from memory, not AE.
Thoughts are liars :) – have you noticed?
Yes, I have noticed this many, many times. :)
Again, a sentence starting with ‘it feels like’ is sure sign that what follows is just an analogy, a speculation. Can you see this?
Yes, i can see this clearly; my way of letting you know i'm stuck.
Is there anything moving attention, or it moves by itself?
Sometimes it is seen that attention moves by itself, then other times it seems like there is intention to put attention on a specific thing, but that was just seen as well. :)
Is there a focus-er?
This flickers back and forth quickly between the sense of a focus-er and noticing focusing happening
Is there something controlling it?
This flickers back and forth also, although not nearly as quickly, between the sense of a separate me choosing to focus on this and the clear seeing that i am not, nor can i find Something else or Someone else that is choosing to focus on this....or whatever else is being focused on. Focusing is happening and it I'm not the one focusing nor am i the one choosing whatever happens to be being looked at.
What moves attention?
More flickering...attention just moves, that is seen...(and immediately after the seeing..."I" appears and says: "I saw that...see, I exist, I noticed that." ) And, then, it feels like i am moving MY attention. ....Do you feel like you're just talking to a brick wall here?
Is thought in control of attention?
After looking/seeking for an answer/AE I have an image of a big knot made of the thickest rope in my head! Most of your questions are like this, some more than others. Back to your question....No. Attention moves about ...this flickers back and forth, too, from attention moving about by itself to me putting forth effort to put attention on this, to noticing that the sense of putting forth effort is happening back to noticing, effecting, noticing.....
This took 4 1/2 hours...with a few 5 minute breaks in there. Is there hope for 'me,' Vivien?
Thank you for all of your time and energy you put forth here to .....? help 'me' see that i'm not here. even though i've seen it more times than i can count on one hand....i want to say: Something here just doesn't want to believe that "I" don't exist. Memory tells me, it's just a thought. If i wasn't so tired, I'd sit until i had the AE of it and not rely on memory, but i'm tired, so seeking will resume in the a.m. unless a miracle happens in my sleep. Talk to you tomorrow, Vivien.